Fares options for a complex journey

[Class800]

Could I please ask for some fares suggestions for this one. No loopholes, but am open to using tickets cleverly within the rules, so feel free to PM if needed. I would rather avoid using advances, as there will be some timings uncertainties right up until the days due to work circumstances.

Tuesday 5 September: Cranbrook (Devon) to Derby, onto Nottingham and back to Derby. Arrival into Nottingham for 5pm ish.
Tuesday 6 September: Derby to Plumstead (London) - leaving late morning, will need some flexibility in case of last minute work calls/meetings
Thursday 14 September: Plumstead (London) to Cranbrook (Devon) - I do have a Network Railcard, but no 'spare' return legs of return tickets unfortunately.

If anyone has anything better than treating each leg separately let me know - some people here have an incredible skill at finding ways to use routing guide to link up awkward journeys!

 

[jfollows]

So as a starting point, what about a simple Cranbrook to Nottingham super offpeak return via London for £147.90?

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Not valid to leave Saint Pancras 04:30-10:03 or 15:36-18:46 outbound, not valid to arrive back into Saint Pancras before 11:34 on the return journey.
Local journey to/from Plumstead with contactless or whatever.

 

[Haywain]

No loopholes, but am open to using tickets cleverly within the rules,

Isn't using tickets cleverly within the rules the same as taking advantage of a loophole?

Tuesday 5 September: Cranbrook (Devon) to Derby, onto Nottingham and back to Derby. Arrival into Nottingham for 5pm ish.
Tuesday 6 September: Derby to Plumstead (London) - leaving late morning, will need some flexibility in case of last minute work calls/meetings
Thursday 14 September: Plumstead (London) to Cranbrook (Devon) - I do have a Network Railcard, but no 'spare' return legs of return tickets unfortunately.

This could all be done with a Cranbrook to Nottingham return, route 'via London', excessed to route 'via Birmingham' for the outward portion if preferred, with London to Plumstead and back paid using contactless. I would expect that someone else will come up with something cheaper.

 

[Class800]

Thanks - this looks pretty good. It's interesting how from Devon we're so used to going via Birmingham for Nottingham that the presence of a via London option didn't even cross my mind! I don't need to book until the day or day before anyway. For via London - I'll need to check which routings from Cranbrook/Exeter are permitted and if these are improved by changing origin to Exeter St Davids, but it's a great start.

As far as I'm aware, you only pass Derby en route if going via Birmingham not via London - so if via London, would that require additional singles to Derby?

Isn't using tickets cleverly within the rules the same as taking advantage of a loophole?

This could all be done with a Cranbrook to Nottingham return, route 'via London', excessed to route 'via Birmingham' for the outward portion if preferred, with London to Plumstead and back paid using contactless. I would expect that someone else will come up with something cheaper.

I always thought loophole meant doing something that was not intended to be done, but is valid on a technicality, whereas using things cleverly within the rules I would see as things like starting/ending short where permitting and breaking journeys

 

[jfollows]

As far as I'm aware, you only pass Derby en route if going via Birmingham not via London - so if via London, would that require additional singles to Derby?

Map NM at https://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps allows Nottingham-Derby-London. So you can break your journey at Derby on the way out and on the way back, which I think you want to do.

 

[Haywain]

I always thought loophole meant doing something that was not intended to be done, but is valid on a technicality, whereas using things cleverly within the rules I would see as things like starting/ending short where permitting and breaking journeys

That's fair enough. I suppose that given that either means of saving money might be abruptly halted by a train company, there's a very fine line between them!

I'll need to check which routings from Cranbrook/Exeter are permitted and if these are improved by changing origin to Exeter St Davids,

I'm pretty sure it would be valid via St David's to London (or Birmingham) or valid to London via Salisbury.

As far as I'm aware, you only pass Derby en route if going via Birmingham not via London - so if via London, would that require additional singles to Derby?

See the post above!

 

[jfollows]

For via London - I'll need to check which routings from Cranbrook/Exeter are permitted and if these are improved by changing origin to Exeter St Davids, but it's a great start.

Exeter & Salisbury are the routeing points for Cranbrook.
Cranbrook-London "any permitted" is the same price as Exeter-London 'via Taunton" (£299 SOR) so it's probably a permitted route (Cranbrook-Exeter-London Paddington) - if Exeter-London were more expensive then it wouldn't be. However you might not find agreement with staff you meet en route. The usual advice is to come up with a formal itinerary when you buy your ticket.
NB Cranbrook-Nottingham via London permitted routes are made up of two components, Cranbrook-London and London-Nottingham.

 

[Class800]

OK thanks - I'll get this booked a day or two before in case of any issues - but thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

I'll be travelling outbound on a Tuesday

Regarding the different tickets, looking on BR Fares, using current prices (I will try to book ahead anyway), there are for Cranbrook to Nottingham:

• Off-peak return via Birmingham £156.70 (restriction 2V, not valid before 09.30)
• Off-peak return via London + £232.70 (restriction 9J, not valid to leave London St Pancras before 08.46 or between 16.35 and 18.46, return not valid to arrive London St Pancras before 10.02)
• Super off-peak return via London + £147.90 (restriction CJ, not valid to leave London St Pancras before 10.04 or between 15.35 and 18.46, return not valid to arrive London St Pancras before 11.34)

The super off peak timings via London + routing would work absolutely fine for my journey. There's nothing indicating whether it can be via Exeter St Davids and Paddington or has to be via Salisbury, but I'll look on journey planner between now and then.

For the outbound, it would be faster to go via Birmingham. However, the excess situation is not so straightforward. As if it were a change of route excess only, it can be done one-way and will keep the ticket as it is for the return leg. However, as there is no super off peak via Birmingham, the excess would appear to be both a ticket type and routing excess and as far as I am aware this has to be done to the whole ticket. This would mean that I couldn't go back via London, which is essential to my journey.

Does anyone interpret this differently? Looks to me like super off peak via London + and I'll just have to accept longer journey outbound via London

 

[kieron]

There's information about excess fares on the National Rail site, including:

The Excess fare to charge is the difference between the price of the ticket held and the price of the cheapest ticket(s) available for immediate travel on the chosen service.

The name of the fare type isn't considered. This is really useful for a flow such as Chester-Birmingham, where one operator's super off peak tickets are roughly equivalent to the other's off peak ones.