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Faulty Vehicles Leaving Garage

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I thought I'd start a new thread as the posts were going off-topic.
From the McGill's Scotland East thread:
Do they engines in the streetlites automatically turn off if the bus sits for a while with the engine on?
I haven't noticed it, which is a blessing as I would be worried that it wouldn't restart.
Yes, most modern vehicles have an idle time out on them that will turn the engine off if left. Usually around the 5 minute mark to allow drivers to do things like walk round checks
Are buses generally allowed or encouraged to leave the garage under the instruction "don't turn the engine off or allow it to turn off because it might not start again"? Across the industry in general, not just restricted to Scotland East.
 
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If places are short of buses sure - had a B7RLE today with a dodgy battery out for half a day (until it broke even more) so we couldn't let it die during layovers otherwise it wasn't wanting to restart
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Yes, it happens...and it always has. Even in the halcyon days of regulation and public ownership, you'd have drivers taking out vehicles and not turning off the engine for fear it wouldn't restart.

I would also add that you would also have vehicles with undetermined issues so they were allowed to see "what developed" and, of course, vehicles that were "kept local" so that when the inevitable happened, you wouldn't have so far to drag them back!

Obviously, taking out a faulty vehicle that is dangerous and would attract a prohibition notice is a big no-no. Remember seeing a pair of First drivers arguing; one said the vehicle was fine but the driver taking over was adamant that a bent panel was dangerous and she would not take it. Credit to her and a replacement was sourced.
 
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It happens all the time; drive the bus as far from the depot then it "cuts out". They soon learn not to give you a faulty bus.

I once picked up a mini bus in service which was "pulling a bit to the left". There were 2 newish drivers who had reported it but were told to "just keep going".

The wheel nuts were loose on the front near side.

Just keep going.
 
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Happens all the time, drive the bus as far from the depot then it " cuts out", they soon learn not to give you a faulty bus.

I once picked up a mini bus in service which was " pulling a bit to the left" ,2 newish drivers who had reported it but told to " just keep going".

The wheel nuts were loose on the front near side.

Just keep going.
Isn't checking the wheel nuts part of the walk-round check? So either someone hadn't been doing their job properly or the fault had developed in service that day.

If places are short of buses sure - had a B7RLE today with a dodgy battery out for half a day (until it broke even more) so we couldn't let it die during layovers otherwise it wasn't wanting to restart
Yes, it happens...and it always has. Even in the halcyon days of regulation and public ownership, you'd have drivers taking out vehicles and not turning off the engine for fear it wouldn't restart.
Fair enough. How does that work in layover places where the signs tell you "no idling - fixed penalty", do you just hope you don't get caught? :s
 

noddingdonkey

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Remember seeing a pair of First drivers arguing; one said the vehicle was fine but the driver taking over was adamant that a bent panel was dangerous and she would not take it. Credit to her and a replacement was sourced.

Replacement vehicle or a replacement driver who was prepared to take it?
 
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Isn't checking the wheel nuts part of the walk-round check? So either someone hadn't been doing their job properly or the fault had developed in service that day.



Fair enough. How does that work in layover places where the signs tell you "no idling - fixed penalty", do you just hope you don't get caught? :s
It had developed during the day.

They routinely pressurise drivers to just keep going, especially if they are new.
 

JKP

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Isn't checking the wheel nuts part of the walk-round check? So either someone hadn't been doing their job properly or the fault had developed in service that day.



Fair enough. How does that work in layover places where the signs tell you "no idling - fixed penalty", do you just hope you don't get caught? :s
Signs saying “no idling - fixed penalty” are imo a city centre thing and are recent. Certainly unknown in NBC/SBG days. I actually received a letter once from a bus company, no names, in reply to a complaint about buses idling at the outer terminus, which stated that drivers kept engines ticking over in case they didn’t restart!
 

spuddie

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I had the opposite problem once with a Leyland National that wouldn't switch off.

Previous driver brought it back in to the depot ready for me to take out and reported the issue. Wouldn't turn off at the key, or the emergency engine stop. An engineer crawling underneath finally managed to do it. Inspector still wanted me to take it but I mentioned I had a 40 min lay over at the other end of the route, wasn't intending to stay with the vehicle that long and didn't feel comfortable leaving it running unattended. Fortunately another vehicle came in just in time.

It was also common practice to allocate broken vehicle to another driver. I know one occasion where another driver refused to take a minibus out on a cold day as the heaters were not working. I came in an hour later and allocated the same vehicle unaware.
 

F262YTJ

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I had the opposite problem once with a Leyland National that wouldn't switch off.

Previous driver brought it back in to the depot ready for me to take out and reported the issue. Wouldn't turn off at the key, or the emergency engine stop. An engineer crawling underneath finally managed to do it. Inspector still wanted me to take it but I mentioned I had a 40 min lay over at the other end of the route, wasn't intending to stay with the vehicle that long and didn't feel comfortable leaving it running unattended. Fortunately another vehicle came in just in time.

It was also common practice to allocate broken vehicle to another driver. I know one occasion where another driver refused to take a minibus out on a cold day as the heaters were not working. I came in an hour later and allocated the same vehicle unaware.

Ahh that age old trick from allocation. Had this often over the years. The only problem was that frequently the allocator would not have looked forward during the day to check if the original driver would receive it on their second half. This meant the They would strand the errant vehicle at the relief point thus losing service.

A minor defence in the application's favour is that certain companies now operate a spares ratio of 1 in 10 or even 12 buses whereas I remember when I first started it was 1 in 6. This slashing of stock causes all sorts of issues because there will always be buses off the road for MOT, heavy maintenance, inspection, collision, etc. so whoever allocated on the output in the morning is on a hiding to nothing.

As a fair minded and often constructive union rep over the years I would always remind a driver that their licence was theirs and if they did not feel the vehicle was fit, sign it off and ultimately, if so defective, refuse to drive it, especially with PG9 faults.

For those that do not know ( and I know the Mods on here like terminology explained), a PG9 is a notice given by police or DVSA enforcement officers that prohibits a defective vehicle from being used. To have it lifted often means the vehicle will have to gain a new NOT irrespective of its current one. This applies to all road vehicles. For companies with operators licences this a PG9 can also mean depot visits from the DVSA and possibly the proverbial tea and biscuits with the Traffic Commissioner too.

It used to around me how many drivers did not realise they could put their OFF entitlement in jeopardy by being ago blase with walkround checks and sign offs.
 
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It had developed during the day.

They routinely pressurise drivers to just keep going, especially if they are new.
Ah.
Signs saying “no idling - fixed penalty” are imo a city centre thing and are recent. Certainly unknown in NBC/SBG days. I actually received a letter once from a bus company, no names, in reply to a complaint about buses idling at the outer terminus, which stated that drivers kept engines ticking over in case they didn’t restart!
Ahh okay, didn't realize they were relatively new.
I had the opposite problem once with a Leyland National that wouldn't switch off.

Previous driver brought it back in to the depot ready for me to take out and reported the issue. Wouldn't turn off at the key, or the emergency engine stop. An engineer crawling underneath finally managed to do it. Inspector still wanted me to take it but I mentioned I had a 40 min lay over at the other end of the route, wasn't intending to stay with the vehicle that long and didn't feel comfortable leaving it running unattended. Fortunately another vehicle came in just in time.
That sounds dangerous as well.
It used to around me how many drivers did not realise they could put their OFF entitlement in jeopardy by being ago blase with walkround checks and sign offs.
OFF? Do you mean the Catagory D?
That's something I'm concerned about too. I've seen pictures of Stagecoach double deckers being driven under a low bridge - the vehicles fit physically but are above the maximum height indicated by the sign. I assume if they were caught then the driver would get a talking to from the police or DVSA, even if no damage occurred. Plus I thought, all it would take would be one faulty suspension, or one driver accidentally leaving the ferry lift on, and the vehicle would hit the bridge.
 

philthetube

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The driver has the ultimate decision, if they think the bus is unsafe they should refuse it, if pressured ensuring that managers are aware that this pressure is recorded somewhere, recorded radio is best but emails, text messages etc work as they are time stamped, it does not natter who they are sent to so long as the person instructing the driver is aware that they have been sent, the bus is not going to be sent out if the person allocating it is aware that if things go wrong they are going to be called out over it, and possibly prosecuted depending on circumstance.
 

F262YTJ

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Ah.

Ahh okay, didn't realize they were relatively new.

That sounds dangerous as well.

OFF? Do you mean the Catagory D?
That's something I'm concerned about too. I've seen pictures of Stagecoach double deckers being driven under a low bridge - the vehicles fit physically but are above the maximum height indicated by the sign. I assume if they were caught then the driver would get a talking to from the police or DVSA, even if no damage occurred. Plus I thought, all it would take would be one faulty suspension, or one driver accidentally leaving the ferry lift on, and the vehicle would hit the bridge.
Yes dipstick here did not proof read my post!!!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I had the opposite problem once with a Leyland National that wouldn't switch off.
My late father had the same problem with a Leyland Olympian. Last bus on a Saturday and no engineering staff about. I'd borrowed his car on condition that I was there to pick him up. So rear panel up, car headlights on full beam - I guess he must have starved the engine of air somehow but we are talking >30 years ago

I have not and never would send a driver out with a vehicle that would get a PG9, even advising them on cleaning rear reg plates. Just not worth it for any reason
 
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My late father had the same problem with a Leyland Olympian. Last bus on a Saturday and no engineering staff about. I'd borrowed his car on condition that I was there to pick him up. So rear panel up, car headlights on full beam - I guess he must have starved the engine of air somehow but we are talking >30 years ago

I have not and never would send a driver out with a vehicle that would get a PG9, even advising them on cleaning rear reg plates. Just not worth it for any reason
IIRC the engine cut out was electrically operated, not air, but I might be wrong. I can still remember opening the rear hatch to pull the lever that stopped them.

We had a Mk 1 national that was difficult to start, the " solution" was to never switch it off, it was sometimes parked up on a Friday evening and left running all weekend. The first run on Monday morning fumes were horrendous.

I once had an Olympian, the rear side panels were hinged with a turn key latch to allow the fitters quick, easy access, but the latches suffered due to vibration.

The bus I had, the latches had gone so the fix was a block of wood with wood screws drilled through the panels, I found this out when the wood fell out and the panel started swinging in the wind.
 

Mwanesh

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Ah.

Ahh okay, didn't realize they were relatively new.

That sounds dangerous as well.

OFF? Do you mean the Catagory D?
That's something I'm concerned about too. I've seen pictures of Stagecoach double deckers being driven under a low bridge - the vehicles fit physically but are above the maximum height indicated by the sign. I assume if they were caught then the driver would get a talking to from the police or DVSA, even if no damage occurred. Plus I thought, all it would take would be one faulty suspension, or one driver accidentally leaving the ferry lift on, and the vehicle would hit the bridge.
You will find some bridges they have dug underneath and not changed the height signs. If the bus is fitting under it's not an offence unless you hit it.
 

Dai Corner

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You will find some bridges they have dug underneath and not changed the height signs. If the bus is fitting under it's not an offence unless you hit it.
It is if the sign is round rather than triangular. Not that I've heard of anyone being prosecuted for that.
 
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