FCC dirty windows

[westcoaster]

You could also ask about the train washing facilities at other depots and then let us know.

On the whole FCC tl network including SE there are only 3 wash plants ( Bedford Cauldwell + carriage sidings and cricklewood depot), anything stabled on the SE or south of London can't be washed. Units are hit daily by graffiti tw%ts and it soon adds up, and if like now it's quite cold the units can't be cleaned as the product used cant be used under a certain temperature. Also the unit might be out on a diagram for several days before it can get back to Bedford for cleaning ( if the mess is rude or offensive the stock should not enter service, and run back to be cleaned).

In regards to southern's stock nearly every depot has a wash plant, so some trains maybe washed more than once a day. They also have a specific cleaning shed at selhurst where units are given a good (acid) wash by hand and brush every now and then hence why some units are sparkling.

 

[radamfi]

anything stabled on the SE or south of London can't be washed.

Which locations are these? Are these places where Southern or Southeastern wash their trains?

 

[DarloRich]

As a regular traveller on the Brighton Line, I catch a mixture of 377s, 442s and 319s, from both Southern (including Gatwick Express) and FCC.

Both operators use 377s but I no longer need to look at the livery to see which operator I am using. I just check to see how dirty the windows are. If the windows are dirty, I am probably travelling by FCC.

Seriously. That. THAT is what you have to complain about. I envy you

 

[jon0844]

Some days I used to find that I couldn't sit in my favourite seat and actually had to choose one of the others. I really felt like writing to my MP those days.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In defence of FCC , "train presentation" goes through good and bad spells - graffiti was really bad a couple of weeks ago , better of late. (as is general external appearance) - would not say that you cannot see out of the windows for dirt.

As for interiors - not too bad - floors and surfaces OK - litter prevention and clearing acceptable considering the heavy traffics. Here at St Albans - even at 1900 or so , cleaners go through the stock reversing , and remove hundreds of discarded free newspapers etc.

Often do a mini tidy up myself on my journeys ...(as do some other passengers !)

 

[asylumxl]

They also do the same at Luton and Bedford. It's also common to see them board Brighton/Bedford bound trains at Farringdon.

I personally think FCC makes the most of the hand they were dealt. Currently it's a huge improvement over Thameslink and a marked improvement over previouS years with FCC.

 

[asylumxl]

Some days I used to find that I couldn't sit in my favourite seat and actually had to choose one of the others. I really felt like writing to my MP those days.

Definitely one to write to Passenger Focus about. Bloody cheek of it!

 

[sarahj]

It did seem FCC was getting hit by grafiti recently with some 377's with all over paint. In an ideal world they should be taken OOU right away and sent for cleaning, but in these days of asset sweating its not always possible. Plus to get any spare units to Brighton at the mo is not easy, might change when Three Bridges depot opens. The only problem with leaving grafiti on, is it encourages the sprayers. If they know it will be removed ASAP they tend to calm down, but knowing its going up and down, makes them more bold, as spotted by New York transit back in the late 70's/early 80's.

As for the smell on southern 377's i'm not sure what you mean. The new carpet is laid down by a glue, so that may be what your thinking. or it could be the toilets. Some are more wiffier than others (depends on the last user), or if your passing by when the tank vents, woooahhhhh. Or it just could be some wasbai noddles (my gripe)
Or, as its been cold and damp, could just be the heating warming up all these damp bodies.
If you want something bad to smell, try going to the mess room at platform 19 at victoria. There has been a sewer issue which makes walking in the door and heading for the stairs a 'hold your breath issue'. It is rumered(?) that they are not sure where the pipe connects to, and since the whole station was built over a old canal, it might just drop its contents down there.

 

[bronzeonion]

I know the smell whoever said about the smell of SN 377's they were on about. Its like a very stale smell, a little like gravy but not as meaty! The Southeastern Electrostars had it before theyre refresh and now they smell fine.

 

[Bald Rick]

Some days I used to find that I couldn't sit in my favourite seat and actually had to choose one of the others. I really felt like writing to my MP those days.

Yesterday, on a rare foray to the GN, an RPI came into first class and allowed the sole non-first class ticket holder to move to standard without paying! Absolute disgrace, they should have the franchise terminated.

 

[tsr]

I know the smell whoever said about the smell of SN 377's they were on about. Its like a very stale smell, a little like gravy but not as meaty! The Southeastern Electrostars had it before theyre refresh and now they smell fine.

I do recognise the description of the smell, but I haven't experienced it for a while. Not since January - maybe earlier.

 

[Southern313]

Which locations are these? Are these places where Southern or Southeastern wash their trains?

We have a wash plant at Lovers Walk North Sidings which is regularly used during shunts from the shed/lovers/mont roads back into the station. However FCC don't berth units (or even sign it?) so that's one option out the window.

We also have wash plants at Littlehampton, Selhurst and Eastbourne. All places where most trains end up at night, or will do within a couple days. At Littlehampton some units arrive from Bognor and go down for washing or CETing before making the Pompey's.

 

[Clip]

Whilst I understand they have a massive fleet and it will cost money I'm quite surprised they have not taken time out to cover their fleet in special graffiti stuff, just makes it come off so much easier and uses less abrasive chemicals so the paint wont get done in as much and also is much less labour intensive. They could do it in the siding that night if they had the staff.. Oh wait a minute

 

[jon0844]

I'd much rather staff were given the right to shoot graffiti artists, which would probably see a fall in other crime too.

I appreciate this might be unpopular with some people, but you could perhaps train staff to aim for their legs.


(I hope a smiley isn't necessary for the above)

 

[455driver]

I'd much rather staff were given the right to shoot graffiti artists, which would probably see a fall in other crime too.

I appreciate this might be unpopular with some people, but you could perhaps train staff to aim for their legs.


(I hope a smiley isn't necessary for the above)

Stop teasing!

I would aim for the legs but I never was a very good shot!

 

[jon0844]

You'd get better as time went on.

 

[pendolino]

If you want something bad to smell, try going to the mess room at platform 19 at victoria. There has been a sewer issue which makes walking in the door and heading for the stairs a 'hold your breath issue'. It is rumered(?) that they are not sure where the pipe connects to, and since the whole station was built over a old canal, it might just drop its contents down there.

That was closed for a while to fix the smell. A notice went up in the mess room in the Kent side offices when it re-opened, which lasted about 2 days before someone scrawled 'IT STILL STINKS OF P**S' on it. Still, it only seems to be coastal crews who use p19 mess room so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[martybabes]

If you want to go out and protest and demand more, feel free, but I did ask before for you to tell us all what you think should be done. No point just moaning or demanding things unless you can come up with an idea on how it might be fixed. Then perhaps go and suggest it to FCC at their next forum/meet the managers session.

You could also ask about the train washing facilities at other depots and then let us know.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a passenger to complain about the dirty appearance or condition of a train, especially if, as seems to be in this case, the problem is one that is regular if not frequent. However, IMHO it is not for the passenger to suggest how the problem is to be remedied but it is for the TOC to investigate.

I cannot understand how dirty trains can in any way be defended. If it is being seriously suggested that a passenger carriage can be offered for public use when it is other than clean, or when the toilets do not work, or any other facilities available to the public are unserviceable, then you need to look within yourself. It is simply not acceptable and should not, indeed cannot, be justified particularly by those who are working within the organisation.

 

[Clip]

So you're saying pull it from service then?

 

[martybabes]

So you're saying pull it from service then?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if the train is dirty, as a paying passenger I have a right (if not a duty) to complain. This is intended to bring it to the attention of those running the train and are responsible for its unacceptable condition. Only then can we begin to see the end of dirty stock being offered for the public's use. It requires a sea-change in attitude - from the public to vociferously express its disgust and for the TOC to do something about it.

If you went to a restaurant where you found the cutlery and crockery were dirty, it would not be your place (or plaice, even ) to suggest how to overcome this deficiency!

Remember years ago drink driving was almost a right of passage. Now it is socially abhorrent. Change can and does happen, both in attitudes and behaviour.

 

[FGW_DID]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a passenger to complain about the dirty appearance or condition of a train, especially if, as seems to be in this case, the problem is one that is regular if not frequent. However, IMHO it is not for the passenger to suggest how the problem is to be remedied but it is for the TOC to investigate.

I cannot understand how dirty trains can in any way be defended. If it is being seriously suggested that a passenger carriage can be offered for public use when it is other than clean, or when the toilets do not work, or any other facilities available to the public are unserviceable, then you need to look within yourself. It is simply not acceptable and should not, indeed cannot, be justified particularly by those who are working within the organisation.

Dirty people = Dirty train!

By all means, as soon as a train / carriage becomes soiled, we'll pull it from service to be cleaned so its presentable to the public on it's next service but please don't complain that the next service is short formed or indeed cancelled.

An extreme situation I know (before people jump on the bandwagon)!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if the train is dirty, as a paying passenger I have a right (if not a duty) to complain. This is intended to bring it to the attention of those running the train and are responsible for its unacceptable condition. Only then can we begin to see the end of dirty stock being offered for the public's use. It requires a sea-change in attitude - from the public to vociferously express its disgust and for the TOC to do something about it.

If you went to a restaurant where you found the cutlery and crockery were dirty, it would not be your place (or plaice, even ) to suggest how to overcome this deficiency!

Remember years ago drink driving was almost a right of passage. Now it is socially abhorrent. Change can and does happen, both in attitudes and behaviour.

of course you have a 'right' to complain but can you please classify what you term as 'dirty' and an 'unacceptable condition'? Are we to clean the brake dust off the chassis at every station stop?

 

[Clip]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if the train is dirty, as a paying passenger I have a right (if not a duty) to complain. This is intended to bring it to the attention of those running the train and are responsible for its unacceptable condition. Only then can we begin to see the end of dirty stock being offered for the public's use. It requires a sea-change in attitude - from the public to vociferously express its disgust and for the TOC to do something about it.

You have every right to complain and so you should. But you need to understand that logistically it is quite hard with a fleet spread out over many different areas to keep on top of externall cleaning. Internal should be done every night but people, oddly enough, are the ones who make the mess inside.

If you went to a restaurant where you found the cutlery and crockery were dirty, it would not be your place (or plaice, even ) to suggest how to overcome this deficiency!

I eat with me fingers anyway.

 

[Aictos]

Whilst I understand they have a massive fleet and it will cost money I'm quite surprised they have not taken time out to cover their fleet in special graffiti stuff, just makes it come off so much easier and uses less abrasive chemicals so the paint wont get done in as much and also is much less labour intensive. They could do it in the siding that night if they had the staff.. Oh wait a minute

If I read the note on the intranet rightly last night, the reason why Caudwell has not been keeping up to speed on removing the graffiti is because they were waiting on a contractor to finish installing a solution there.

However Caudwell and Hornsey are now getting on with removing graffiti, Hornsey for one doing the 377s when they visit to use the wheel lath, I think where they have to replace part of the vinyl livery, a anti graffiti solution is applied to the area so it's easier to clean off/harder to graffiti.

Obviously this will take time but they are doing the best they can to crack down and remove any graffiti.

 

[Clip]

If I read the note on the intranet rightly last night, the reason why Caudwell has not been keeping up to speed on removing the graffiti is because they were waiting on a contractor to finish installing a solution there.

However Caudwell and Hornsey are now getting on with removing graffiti, Hornsey for one doing the 377s when they visit to use the wheel lath, I think where they have to replace part of the vinyl livery, a anti graffiti solution is applied to the area so it's easier to clean off/harder to graffiti.

Obviously this will take time but they are doing the best they can to crack down and remove any graffiti.

Good to hear. Is it Chelaguard do you know? Expensive but worth it. And any pen marks and that comes off with a disposable wipe, bigger paintworks uses something similar. Great stuff

 

[sarahj]

That was closed for a while to fix the smell. A notice went up in the mess room in the Kent side offices when it re-opened, which lasted about 2 days before someone scrawled 'IT STILL STINKS OF P**S' on it. Still, it only seems to be coastal crews who use p19 mess room so it doesn't matter anyway.

Alas, when you only have 20 mins, its not worth it to wander over to the 'other side', climb up 2 flights of stairs (lift banned for common staff), you just get sat down when its time to go back over. Plus its a silent mess room, but alas becoming very common. After 4 hours of running around and having no one speak to you, unless its to moan, its getting a bit anoying to get into a mess room and find everyone with headphones on watching an i=pad or such. At least in Brighton mess room, we talk.

Anyway, back on topic. We have disccused, dirty (on the inside) trains before. I did once have a train, brand new refurbished, and spotless. Within 3 mins, someone had spilt coffee over the seats.

But at the same time I have taken out of a shed at too early o'clock a train with both toilets locked oou as their tanks were full. I reported it, but the train will have been in service all day last sat in this condition. The reasons it had not been done during its night at the depot made me quite angry (I'm not going to mention the reason here) and its puts us, the front line staff in the passenger firing line, and I can see why, but alas, once its reported, there is nothing more we can do.

 

[jon0844]

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a passenger to complain about the dirty appearance or condition of a train, especially if, as seems to be in this case, the problem is one that is regular if not frequent. However, IMHO it is not for the passenger to suggest how the problem is to be remedied but it is for the TOC to investigate.

I haven't said someone HAS to come up with a solution, but when reasons are given that explain a situation.. if someone continues to moan and won't accept those reasons, I hardly think it's unreasonable to ask someone to come up with their own idea of a solution.

Otherwise it's just a rant. Everyone agrees that a train might be let out in a dirtier condition than liked (or covered with graffiti), but when asked 'should it be taken out of service' they backtrack and admit it's not a major deal in the grand scheme of things (a 'first world problem') but then continue to moan and say it shouldn't be like that. Well, I am not sure anyone has said it should - but HOW can it be fixed?

And that's why it's a fair question to ask of someone who won't accept detailed and totally honest explanations.

 

[Aictos]

Good to hear. Is it Chelaguard do you know? Expensive but worth it. And any pen marks and that comes off with a disposable wipe, bigger paintworks uses something similar. Great stuff

I don't know as I don't work in Train Presentation, I'm just explaining what the department's management team has explained to non TP colleagues.

 

[martybabes]

...but I did ask before for you to tell us all what you think should be done. No point just moaning or demanding things unless you can come up with an idea on how it might be fixed.

Surely that's a bit unfair? I don't need to come up with a solution to a problem if I am reporting a problem. It's for those who have responsibility for the service which is perceived to be deficient that have to come up with the solution.

 

[Clip]

I don't know as I don't work in Train Presentation, I'm just explaining what the department's management team has explained to non TP colleagues.

Thats cool. Could you find out though?

 

[Aictos]

Thats cool. Could you find out though?

Certainly can try

I know there is a new policy in place for staff to report any graffiti they see, hopefully it might make a difference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thats cool. Could you find out though?

From what I understand, all three wash plants at Cricklewood, Bedford Carriage Sidings and Caudwell are now back in working order with extra resources at Cricklewood and Bedford Carriage Sidings to hand clean units to remove the built in dirt.

With regards to graffiti and vinyls, I believe they are checked by a external contractor who will replace individual panels to keep the huge costs involved down BUT when a complete coach needs to be re-liveried then the coach gets a anti-graffiti coating applied at the same time.

Security at known hotspots are also being looked at with other TOCs, Network Rail, BTP, FCC etc...

Hope that's informative for you?