FGW coffee service takes a downward lurch

[yorksrob]

When I was working in the catering trade;
a teabag cost less than 1p each,
the paper cup were about 3.5p each,
mains water was around £5 a cubic metre, (the cups were 0.3litre, so 3300 cups of tea could be made from £5 of water),
the little milk portions were about 2p each and as standard I gave 2 with a cup of tea.
as sugar portion was around 0.5p each.
So a cup of tea cost me less than 10p to produce, and I sold for £1.00.
A coffee cost me about 20p to produce, and sold for £1.50.

Many thanks for the info - very informative !

 

[87 027]

I remember the days of the BR Maxpax coffee, instant mixed with boiling water from the urn served in paper cups and you needed asbestos fingers to carry it back to your seat as there weren't any bags or similar!

Since then the standard of coffee has improved no end, but like the OP I'd be rather put out at paying today's prices for 1970s' quality...

 

[Hyphen]

Do FGW still pour a perfectly good cup of coffee/tea down the sink if placed in the cups intended for standard class passengers if you're a first class passenger?

So far as I can tell. About a year or so ago I was in first on a FGW service on a Sunday, and went up to the buffet mid journey for my free coffee.

Despite coming from the first class direction, and despite clutching my first class ticket (and holding it on the counter), I asked for a black coffee and was served from the machine. I then showed her my ticket as she brought it over, and I got a bit of rant from her about how I need to make it clear I'm a first class passenger after my complimentary coffee, before getting served (her emphasis).

After apologising and telling her I didn't even know there were different types of coffee for different people, she begrudgingly poured the 'good' stuff into a first class cup and told me she'd let me off this once...

 

[Butts]

I remember the days of the BR Maxpax coffee, instant mixed with boiling water from the urn served in paper cups and you needed asbestos fingers to carry it back to your seat as there weren't any bags or similar!

Since then the standard of coffee has improved no end, but like the OP I'd be rather put out at paying today's prices for 1970s' quality...

Ah the good old Maxpax with a Mcewans Export and a Benson - Railway Heaven...whoops nearly forgot BR BLT

 

[Goatboy]

So far as I can tell. About a year or so ago I was in first on a FGW service on a Sunday, and went up to the buffet mid journey for my free coffee.

Despite coming from the first class direction, and despite clutching my first class ticket (and holding it on the counter), I asked for a black coffee and was served from the machine. I then showed her my ticket as she brought it over, and I got a bit of rant from her about how I need to make it clear I'm a first class passenger after my complimentary coffee, before getting served (her emphasis).

After apologising and telling her I didn't even know there were different types of coffee for different people, she begrudgingly poured the 'good' stuff into a first class cup and told me she'd let me off this once...

I find this outstandingly crap - they actually have a second tier of crap coffee to give away to First Class customers. Astonishing really.

 

[Michael.Y]

Not being posh, I prefer instant coffee from the buffet, and it is a bit cheaper - 45p cheaper to be exact.

 

[Bishopstone]

I'm pretty sure the 'free' tea/coffee I'm given in First on Gatwick Express and Southern is in small cups reserved for freeloaders. And I believe Greater Anglia also have separate arrangements for First Class complimentaries, although soon after the 379s were introduced I made a return trip to Stansted in FC, and was made a very nice filter-style complimentary coffee in a large cup.

 

[TEW]

The instant coffee on FGW always used to be cheaper than the machine stuff. When you ask from a coffee from the machine whatever type of coffee you ask for will be put in the machine and appear on the receipt, the instant coffee is a different option and I imagine it is still cheaper.

 

[Squaddie]

So far as I can tell. About a year or so ago I was in first on a FGW service on a Sunday, and went up to the buffet mid journey for my free coffee.

Despite coming from the first class direction, and despite clutching my first class ticket (and holding it on the counter), I asked for a black coffee and was served from the machine. I then showed her my ticket as she brought it over, and I got a bit of rant from her about how I need to make it clear I'm a first class passenger after my complimentary coffee, before getting served (her emphasis).

After apologising and telling her I didn't even know there were different types of coffee for different people, she begrudgingly poured the 'good' stuff into a first class cup and told me she'd let me off this once...

Now it's starting to make sense: I didn't realise that the "complimentary" coffee available to first class customers was different to the coffee other passengers pay for. I don't think I've ever had a coffee from the on-board cafe before, as I always get one at Nero or Costa before boarding. That makes me think even less of the service - just how much can a proper coffee cost?

Next time I travel I'll deliberately ask for a coffee before showing my ticket, and then the attendant can choose to give me the decent stuff or pour it away.

 

[island]

When I was working in the catering trade;
a teabag cost less than 1p each,
the paper cup were about 3.5p each,
mains water was around £5 a cubic metre, (the cups were 0.3litre, so 3300 cups of tea could be made from £5 of water),
the little milk portions were about 2p each and as standard I gave 2 with a cup of tea.
as sugar portion was around 0.5p each.
So a cup of tea cost me less than 10p to produce, and I sold for £1.00.
A coffee cost me about 20p to produce, and sold for £1.50.

The main costs for fixed-location caterers these days are, of course, none of these, but wages, rent, and rates. In particular on the railway network, especially at Network Rail-managed stations, the rent can be astounding!

 

[Tetchytyke]

They could always do what Grand Central do, and offer a choice of instant or bean-to-cup, priced accordingly. And Grand Central prices are really very good.

It surprises me that the coffee for first class passengers on FGW is worse, because on every other TOC the first class coffee is the same or better. But then when FGW think a little carton of "tastes like real ****" is the same as milk, you never really know.

 

[oldman]

It surprises me that the coffee for first class passengers on FGW is worse, because on every other TOC the first class coffee is the same or better.

To quote one of my grumpy namesakes, 'I don't believe it.' It would be the stupidest thing to do, to save a negligable amount of money. Email a journalist, look up the most expensive first class ticket on FGW and bingo, you've got a cheap story.

 

[185]

After apologising and telling her I didn't even know there were different types of coffee for different people, she begrudgingly poured the 'good' stuff into a first class cup and told me she'd let me off this once...

I would probably have returned the drink to the employee.

In mid air.

 

[Squaddie]

To quote one of my grumpy namesakes, 'I don't believe it.' It would be the stupidest thing to do, to save a negligable amount of money. Email a journalist, look up the most expensive first class ticket on FGW and bingo, you've got a cheap story.

This morning I experienced the level of customer service offered by a company at the opposite end of the scale to the train companies. Waitrose offers a free coffee every day to holders of its loyalty card - no conditions attached, just walk into a Waitrose store, show your card and get a free coffee. But in this case the coffee is exactly the same as paying customers get - a decent cup of espresso-based coffee from a proper coffee machine and served with a genuine smile.

This kind of service leaves me feeling good towards Waitrose and more likely to shop there, whereas FGW's determination to fob me off with a poor cup of instant coffee (or, rather, the ingredients for a poor cup of coffee which I then had to make myself) just makes me annoyed and even more determined to use them as little as possible. It's a false economy on their part.

 

[AndrewP]

This whole thread is a storm in a teacup...

Storm in a coffee cup surely!

I drink industrial quantities of coffee and can be a real coffee snob (I buy single plantation Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee for example) but when travelling I do not expect the same as I would in the Monmouth Coffee Company in Borough Market.

If the coffee machine was down (likely as these £10k ish things are not always reliable) then having sachets of instant is a good idea. However, I think that the East Coast solution of having whole bean instant (Starbucks Via etc) is the right answer as the coffee is decent and the need for the complex machine is removed. Also just because coffee is filtered does not make it good - a bad bean or roast will never be improved.

 

[Flamingo]

Now it's starting to make sense: I didn't realise that the "complimentary" coffee available to first class customers was different to the coffee other passengers pay for. I don't think I've ever had a coffee from the on-board cafe before, as I always get one at Nero or Costa before boarding. That makes me think even less of the service - just how much can a proper coffee cost?

Next time I travel I'll deliberately ask for a coffee before showing my ticket, and then the attendant can choose to give me the decent stuff or pour it away.

They will pour it away (and return the opened item as waste), or charge you for it. They would do the same for tea.

The First Class coffee is not ground coffee, and not advertised as such.

Instructions to avail of complementary items from the buffet are to show the ticket or otherwise identify a requirement for complementary items before ordering, as otherwise you may be charged.

This is because there are different stocks for complementary and saleable stock.

This is nothing to do with cheaper, or a different level of quality, but has to do with stock control and fraud prevention. The coffee machine logs how many cups are made, and this can be (and is) checked against the number of cups put through the till. Same with all other comp items, it's to stop people selling the comps and pocketing the cash.

The instant coffee sachets are also "First Class" or saleable, and also counted accordingly. Saleable coffee on trolleys is the instant variety.

The first-class coffee is usually pre-made in insulated flasks, and has been often changed to attempt to find something that appeals to everybody. At the moment it is not instant, but a new product that is a liquid that is diluted with hot water. Apparently it is a lot more expensive than the granules it is replacing. I can't comment on the taste, I hate coffee.

If you think that the saleable instant should cost less (or indeed, the ground coffee should cost more, as that would be the probable outcome of such a review) feel free to contact Customer services, or bring a flask.

Regarding the sachet being handed over to "do it yourself", I've never heard of that, seen it done, or heard it instructed, the correct pathway is for the CH to make it before handing the coffee over. That might be worth letting customer services know, as somebody needs a swift refresher.

 

[Squaddie]

If you think that the saleable instant should cost less (or indeed, the ground coffee should cost more, as that would be the probable outcome of such a review) feel free to contact Customer services, or bring a flask.

No, I think the "complimentary" coffee available to first class passengers should be exactly the same coffee as is normally available to buy, not an inferior product. The actual quality of that coffee is of secondary importance here.

 

[jon0844]

This kind of service leaves me feeling good towards Waitrose and more likely to shop there, whereas FGW's determination to fob me off with a poor cup of instant coffee (or, rather, the ingredients for a poor cup of coffee which I then had to make myself) just makes me annoyed and even more determined to use them as little as possible. It's a false economy on their part.

I have to wonder how long Waitrose can afford to do this though. In my local one, Welwyn Garden City, there's always a queue and the machine regularly runs out, or breaks. As such, I don't bother to get a coffee as it's too much hassle - and I'm sure others will be thinking the same, so not feeling it's quite as good a deal as it seems.

Now, the answer might be to get a second machine, but that would then need a change to the layout at the counter, and obviously increase the cost a fair bit for the extra machine and maintenance.

It's a very nice offering, sure, but one that I think Waitrose might be come to regret as it has become too popular. What's more, is it bringing in more sales? I'd say people are probably quite loyal customers anyway, and this could well turn into a negative in the long run.

 

[Flamingo]

No, I think the "complimentary" coffee available to first class passengers should be exactly the same coffee as is normally available to buy, not an inferior product. The actual quality of that coffee is of secondary importance here.

That wasn't your original post, or complaint. It's just something else you have latched onto after reading other posters.

Did you even read my post, or are you so determined to be outraged that you are not letting the facts get in the way of a good rant?

I've attempted to explain how the system works. If you don't like the product nobody is forcing you to buy it or drink it, pretty much every station has a coffee outlet or bring your own.

But you really do need to get a life. If the worst thing that has happened to you recently is that you got a crap cup of coffee, you are doing better than most.

 

[TEW]

If you think that the saleable instant should cost less (or indeed, the ground coffee should cost more, as that would be the probable outcome of such a review) feel free to contact Customer services, or bring a flask.

As I pointed out up the thread, the instant coffee did always used to be cheaper, but I'm not sure if it is still the case. IIRC it was about £1.80 for the instant coffee £2 for one from the machine. Nowadays it's about £2.50 for one from the machine though.

 

[Mojo]

You coffeeheads get so wound up when there is a change, or what you want is unavailable. I remember when our work kitchen ran out of coffee and the moaning went on non-stop for hours. In contrast us tea drinkers just said "oh well" or went elsewhere when the tea bags ran out.

Try drinking tea instead, you'll feel a lot more chilled out

 

[Flamingo]

You coffeeheads get so wound up when there is a change, or what you want is unavailable. I remember when our work kitchen ran out of coffee and the moaning went on non-stop for hours. In contrast us tea drinkers just said "oh well" or went elsewhere when the tea bags ran out.

Try drinking tea instead, you'll feel a lot more chilled out

Quite right! I always keep a few teabags in a bag in my pocket at work, it's amazing how useful that is

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have to wonder how long Waitrose can afford to do this though.

Long enough I suspect. I know that I always seem to come out of the Waitrose in Muswell Hill having spent a fiver on stuff I don't need along with my "free" coffee.

Ikea do free tea and coffee in their cafeteria too, they've been doing it for years, for basically the same reason.

 

[island]

Ikea do free tea and coffee in their cafeteria too, they've been doing it for years, for basically the same reason.

Only on weekdays though AFAIK

 

[Squaddie]

That wasn't your original post, or complaint. It's just something else you have latched onto after reading other posters.

That wasn't the original complaint, but the conversation has moved on and I am now aware of something that I find even more surprising than the quality of the coffee I was "served" on board the train.

But you really do need to get a life.

Is that the official FGW response to a customer's dissatisfaction with the service, or are you being insulting in a personal capacity? Are we only allowed to complain about the most important things in our lives? If that were the case, half of this forum could be locked immediately.

 

[jon0844]

Ikea do free tea and coffee in their cafeteria too, they've been doing it for years, for basically the same reason.

Sure, but I've never experienced the same queue there. Admittedly, we tend to go after 6pm in the week (but it's still pretty busy in the restaurant).

Perhaps the demand in our Waitrose will die down in a bit. I'm sure there are people getting one just because it's free, or that it has just been more busy with the run up to Christmas and so won't be an issue in the new year.

 

[Daimler]

Sure, but I've never experienced the same queue there. Admittedly, we tend to go after 6pm in the week (but it's still pretty busy in the restaurant).

Perhaps the demand in our Waitrose will die down in a bit. I'm sure there are people getting one just because it's free, or that it has just been more busy with the run up to Christmas and so won't be an issue in the new year.

At my local Waitrose, there's never much of a queue at the machine by the reception desk, but the café has been noticeably busier since the free tea/coffee offer was introduced - perhaps this works out quite well for Waitrose though, as at the café people are likely to buy a snack of some sort to have with their drink.

Personally, I use the 'free newspaper when you spend £5' offer a lot more often.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yeah, the Ikea offer is only in midweek and only with a Family Card, when the shop is quieter.

The Waitrose offer seems to depend on where you go, and when. The one on Holborn has a queue stretching out the door in a morning, but then with the one on Goswell Road you can be in and out in a few minutes. I imagine people do go there because it is free, and because it's actually quite a good cuppa, but I bet most people walk out with more than their latte.

Not that this is at all off topic!

 

[jon0844]

Not that this is at all off topic!

Really? Doesn't every forum member get a free coffee with every post?

(FWIW, our Waitrose doesn't as yet have a cafe as I guess it's too small and I'm not sure there's any scope to expand the store size because of it being in a conservation area).

 

[Goatboy]

The coffee machine logs how many cups are made, and this can be (and is) checked against the number of cups put through the till. Same with all other comp items, it's to stop people selling the comps and pocketing the cash.

This is a shame if its the real reason why the comp coffee is of lower quality.

Do FGW really have such a low opinion of the people they employ they don't trust them to honestly vend coffee?!