Fight on a train over masks

[Bungle73]

Covid: Mask row sparks fight on train​

Covid: Mask row sparks fight on trainClose

Footage of a fight on board a train allegedly sparked by a row over mask-wearing has emerged.
The recording, taken on a service between York and Leeds on Saturday night, depicts two men - one masked, one not - arguing.
As the dispute escalates, other passengers attempt to calm the situation before another fight breaks out between two women.
British Transport Police said an investigation was underway and inquiries were ongoing.
Operator TransPennine Express said the behaviour was "totally unacceptable".
It said passengers must follow government advice to wear masks on trains and in stations

Fight breaks out on train over mask-wearing

Police investigate footage of a fight on a York to Leeds service after a row about wearing masks.

www.bbc.co.uk

Of course no one could have predicted something like this would happen could they?

 

[brad465]

Supermarkets predicted it, hence reports of a number of different chains saying they won't enforce them this time. Of course people will blame the non-mask wearer(s) for not caring/behaving properly, but the reality is we can't force a completely different culture/attitude on a whole population and expect it to go down well for everyone. This is also taking up already-limited police resources that makes life easier for petty criminals elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if the only way police will investigate a burglary is if you pretend your house is a shop and say the assailant is not wearing a mask in it.

 

[Cdd89]

Operator TransPennine Express said the behaviour was "totally unacceptable".
It said passengers must follow government advice to wear masks on trains and in stations

This comment seems somewhat incendiary.

 

[greyman42]

If you object to someone not wearing a mask on health grounds, why would you get involved in behaviour likely to cause a fight with all the contact that comes with it?

 

[Failed Unit]

This comment seems somewhat incendiary.

Unless the statement was edited later it now says unless exempt. However that does normally start some on the “exempt from what line”

If you object to someone not wearing a mask on health grounds, why would you get involved in behaviour likely to cause a fight with all the contact that comes with it?

Happily I have not being confronted in 2021. But I do think the same myself. If I am a danger to anyone by not wearing a mask then why approach me? I haven’t had anyone say anything to me anywhere this year.

 

[MikeWM]

Isn't 'York to Leeds on a Saturday night' the key part of this story?

 

[bramling]

If you object to someone not wearing a mask on health grounds, why would you get involved in behaviour likely to cause a fight with all the contact that comes with it?

Yes a considerable paradox there. The person is dangerous, so let’s start an unnecessary confrontation with them, and in so doing spread droplets far and wide.

 

[greyman42]

Isn't 'York to Leeds on a Saturday night' the key part of this story?

That was my line of thought as well. Masks are a bit of a side issue.

 

[duncanp]

As in all these cases, we never see what went on before the start of the video.

I have no doubt alcohol was a contributory factor, and that similar confrontations over the wearing of masks have taken place on public transport all over the UK.

 

[greyman42]

So just muckraking by the BBC concerning masks.

 

[fraser158]

Drunken louts probably.

 

[Merseysider]

Part of the problem is people sticking their nose into other peoples’ business.

Witnessed it on the weekend on XC down from Exeter with some bloke having a go at a woman (who was exempt) - he promptly got told where to stick it by a number of passengers.

I’m not surprised to hear of fights.

 

[yorkie]

Mask mandates (which can be complied with by wearing ineffective masks and from which anyone can declare themselves exempt) serve no real purpose other than to cause arguments.

No-one should be saying anything to anyone about whether they are wearing a mask or not.

If anyone doesn't trust the vaccines, they have the choice to wear a highly effective FFP3 mask; anyone wearing such a mask does not need to worry about whether or not other people are wearing masks; the majority of masks worn to comply with mandates are of the flimsy, loose fitting kind which are not designed to filter virus particles and do not offer anyone any protection. They are just for show, and for box ticking purposes.

It makes no sense for someone who is ostensibly concerned about virus transmission to choose not to wear an effective mask and then approach people not wearing ineffective masks and start arguing with them (or worse) and yet I have witnessed this happen.

It's not about the virus, it's about control, virtue signalling, box ticking, and culture wars.

 

[Eyersey468]

Mask mandates (which can be complied with by wearing ineffective masks and from which anyone can declare themselves exempt) serve no real purpose other than to cause arguments.

No-one should be saying anything to anyone about whether they are wearing a mask or not.

If anyone doesn't trust the vaccines, they have the choice to wear a highly effective FFP3 mask; anyone wearing such a mask does not need to worry about whether or not other people are wearing masks; the majority of masks worn to comply with mandates are of the flimsy, loose fitting kind which are not designed to filter virus particles and do not offer anyone any protection. They are just for show, and for box ticking purposes.

It makes no sense for someone who is ostensibly concerned about virus transmission to choose not to wear an effective mask and then approach people not wearing ineffective masks and start arguing with them (or worse) and yet I have witnessed this happen.

It's not about the virus, it's about control, virtue signalling, box ticking, and culture wars.

Completely agree

 

[swj99]

It's not about the virus, it's about control, virtue signalling, box ticking, and culture wars.

Exactly.

I thought people knew better now than to hassle those who don't wear masks.
The strangest situation I've encountered personally was in a supermarket. An assistant asked if I had a mask. I said no. She asked if I wanted one. I said, "No thanks, I'm exempt." She came right up to me and said, "It's against the law to come in here without a mask !" I repeated that I was exempt, and when she continued her tirade, I held my "I am exempt" card up to her and told her to go away, which she did.

Several people have asked me why I'm exempt. Sometimes I politely explain it, other times I remind them it's none of their business.

 

[AlterEgo]

Isn't 'York to Leeds on a Saturday night' the key part of this story?

Almost certainly!!

 

[davews]

In Tesco the other day I was approached by an assistant (who certainly knew me as a regular customer). 'Would you like a mask Sir?'. 'Exempt' said I poking out my government lanyard. 'Found on the internet? But you are not really exempt.' I controlled my temper thankfully but it upset me for an hour or so afterwards. What a cheek. I notice thought that the latest signs outside Tesco don't mention exemptions at all.

 

[yorkie]

In Tesco the other day I was approached by an assistant (who certainly knew me as a regular customer). 'Would you like a mask Sir?'. 'Exempt' said I poking out my government lanyard. 'Found on the internet? But you are not really exempt.' I controlled my temper thankfully but it upset me for an hour or so afterwards. What a cheek. I notice thought that the latest signs outside Tesco don't mention exemptions at all.

Not acceptable; I am currently avoiding my local shops because I want to avoid all this conflict. Were I to witness anything like that I would be having very strong words indeed. I stood up for a passenger against an inappropriate XC guard on a train last year and I would absolutely do it again if the opportunity arose. The Guard really didn't like what I had to say I've not seen him since but am certainly looking out for him...

 

[farleigh]

I have not worn a mask since July and have not had any comments since one back then. Even that was easily seen to by saying I was exempt.

 

[big_rig]

Unfortunately TfL have hired a bunch of goons recently to step up their previously invisible ‘enforcement teams.’ During my commute this week I’ve seen gangs of them numbering a dozen or so at different stations yelling aggressively at people at the gate line. They look and act like nightclub bouncers. In one brief run through the station I saw them issuing fines to people on the spot when they said they’d forgotten their mask, and one person who said they were exempt at the gate line was led away by a group of three of the male goons, evidently for further and illegal questioning. So I’m rewarding TfL for that by not taking their services and working from home, sadly.

 

[adc82140]

Unfortunately TfL have hired a bunch of goons recently to step up their previously invisible ‘enforcement teams.’ During my commute this week I’ve seen gangs of them numbering a dozen or so at different stations yelling aggressively at people at the gate line. They look and act like nightclub bouncers. In one brief run through the station I saw them issuing fines to people on the spot when they said they’d forgotten their mask, and one person who said they were exempt at the gate line was led away by a group of three of the male goons, evidently for further and illegal questioning. So I’m rewarding TfL for that by not taking their services and working from home, sadly.

The mask debate has been done to death here, so I won't go in to the whys and wherefores, but any attempt at questioning the reason for an exemption after the first attempt at politely l declining to do so should result in an offer by the exempt person to call the police. It's harassment.

On the topic of fights on trains, I once witnessed a full on fisticuffs between two middle aged besuited men at 8am over a seat on an HST at Reading. So it's not just the Saturday evening crowd.

 

[Eyersey468]

There was a guy in Hull Station the other night kicking off about people not wearing masks and he was verbally abusing one of our drivers for not challenging people without masks. Occasionally I have had someone ask why I don't enforce it, to which my answer is I am not the police, I am employed to drive the vehicle, not enforce a law.

 

[Jonny]

Unfortunately TfL have hired a bunch of goons recently to step up their previously invisible ‘enforcement teams.’ During my commute this week I’ve seen gangs of them numbering a dozen or so at different stations yelling aggressively at people at the gate line. They look and act like nightclub bouncers. In one brief run through the station I saw them issuing fines to people on the spot when they said they’d forgotten their mask, and one person who said they were exempt at the gate line was led away by a group of three of the male goons, evidently for further and illegal questioning. So I’m rewarding TfL for that by not taking their services and working from home, sadly.

I would like to see if the goons ^tried^ anything, what the fallout for them would be. I think goons is the key word, as they are dumb as.

If someone claims exemption, it's on you to prove otherwise.

 

[Bungle73]

Aren't TfL supposed to be short of money.....?

 

[farleigh]

I think these are well designed.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903454/Exemption_from_face_covering_card_to_print.pdf

 

[Jonny]

Aren't TfL supposed to be short of money.....?

It would not surprise me if they are going for soft targets. That, and Mayor Khan being a mask enthusiast who wants to look like a hero.

As a complete aside but about situations like OP mentioned in Post 1, a lot of videos that I have seen of those complaining about others not wearing masks has come from those who wear the flimsiest, leakiest ones. It would be more than a bit amusing to see them told that their mask was not really good enough and maybe even worse than useless; perhaps they might also change their tune when they begin to understand how about 95% of masks were not designed to stop airborne viruses as well as false reassurance effects in general.

 

[GB]

How do we know this fight was started by a masked person and not someone who takes exception to people wearing masks? Plenty of those people about and wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Eyersey468]

How do we know this fight was started by a masked person and not someone who takes exception to people wearing masks? Plenty of those people about and wouldn't be the first time.

We don't, but in my experience those that don't like mask wearing leave those thar do wear them alone it does seem to be those thar take exception to those that don't wear them that start having a go.

 

[yorkie]

It would not surprise me if they are going for soft targets. That, and Mayor Khan being a mask enthusiast who wants to look like a hero.

As a complete aside but about situations like OP mentioned in Post 1, a lot of videos that I have seen of those complaining about others not wearing masks has come from those who wear the flimsiest, leakiest ones. It would be more than a bit amusing to see them told that their mask was not really good enough and maybe even worse than useless; perhaps they might also change their tune when they begin to understand how about 95% of masks were not designed to stop airborne viruses as well as false reassurance effects in general.

Indeed; the argument for mandating other people wear masks goes along the following likes: "I wear a (flimsy, loose fitting) mask which is not designed to filter aerosols, therefore I am not protected by my mask. Although I have been vaccinated, I do not trust the vaccines and therefore do not wish to be exposed to aerosols containing virus particles; therefore I require you to wear a (flimsy, loose fitting) mask, in case you are infectious, so that any aerosols containing virus particles are reduced by your mask"

The argument goes that flimsy, loose fitting masks which are not designed to filter aerosol particles, somehow do filter such particles when exhaled by the wearer, but do not filter such particles for the wearer.

This argument is of course as flimsy as the masks themselves; the argument is full of holes, just as their masks are.

Now they could wear a tight fitting, highly effective FFP3 mask, which is designed to filter aerosol particles and offers almost 100% protection. But they choose not to do that, because it would destroy their argument that others should wear masks, given that their argument is that masks which do not filter virus particles do not protect the wearer.

People who are genuinely wanting to avoid exposure to virus particles would wear tight fitting FFP3 (or almost as good FFP2) masks and would keep their distance from others; they would be highly unlikely to get into a fight with someone.

How do we know this fight was started by a masked person and not someone who takes exception to people wearing masks? Plenty of those people about and wouldn't be the first time.

We do not know who started this fight but all the arguments and aggression and inappropriate comments I have witnessed have all been made by people who have been wearing masks (as others have said, it's always those wearing flimsy loose fitting masks, not highly effective FFP2/3 masks) directed at people not wearing masks. And I know from discussions with other people that many others have witnessed the same.

 

[Bluejays]

We don't, but in my experience those that don't like mask wearing leave those thar do wear them alone it does seem to be those thar take exception to those that don't wear them that start having a go.

Not after a few beers they don't.

As a guard, on daytime trains the only real mask related issue i have is the occasional masked person person demanding that I 'make someone wear a mask' . Thankfully this is pretty rare, tends to be middle aged/older demographic doing the complaining. Does annoy me when they complain to me about it rather than speaking to the person themselves or texting 61016. Before responding, I try to distinguish wether they are genuinely worried or if they just enjoy a reason to have a go at staff.


When working friday/Saturday nights very different. Lots of drunk morons like to make a big point of getting right in your face and asking why you are wearing a mask. The cough in the face is a bit of fave for a lot of them aswell. T key comes out more times in response to these idiots than it does to open doors