Filthy freight wagons

[Shimbleshanks]

Just seen the Channel Tunnel freight roll past my window in Purley. About 15 Cargowagon sets behind a Class 66. Everything filthy, rust-streaked, graffitied.

Why can the railway not clean up its act (literally)? Earlier in the week, I travelled past Thornaby yard on Teesside. You could hardly see the sidings for the vegetation.

It's hardly a great look when you're trying to persuade business to switch to rail, arguably because it's cleaner and greener. I can't imagine many road hauliers would allow their equipment or yards to get into such a state.

 

[12LDA28C]

Is Thornaby Yard even still in use? Bit pointless tidying it up if not. I would have thought companies sending goods by rail care more about if it gets there on time than whether the wagons are shiny or not.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Is Thornaby Yard even still in use? Bit pointless tidying it up if not. I would have thought companies sending goods by rail care more about if it gets there on time than whether the wagons are shiny or not.

I beg to differ. Try turning up at a food retailer's distribution centre with a filthy, oil-stained truck and see what reception you get. And also, if you send out the message:
'I can't be bothered to keep my wagons clean' the consignor will likely conclude that you can't be bothered with any other aspects of the service you offer either.

 

[Samzino]

I beg to differ. Try turning up at a food retailer's distribution centre with a filthy, oil-stained truck and see what reception you get. And also, if you send out the message:
'I can't be bothered to keep my wagons clean' the consignor will likely conclude that you can't be bothered with any other aspects of the service you offer either.

Retail distributors will more likely be persuaded by money than clean rail trucks that the top beancounters and Hollywood's will see. Cleanup of those trucks just for said food retailers will probs add a fair bit on the delivery tab that they'll not like

Besides the crates etc of food etc are well packaged from the outside world, there are far more dirty road trailers transporting your dinner about to the stores without much complaint.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I beg to differ. Try turning up at a food retailer's distribution centre with a filthy, oil-stained truck and see what reception you get. And also, if you send out the message:
'I can't be bothered to keep my wagons clean' the consignor will likely conclude that you can't be bothered with any other aspects of the service you offer either.

Quite -- I speak with some experience as a BR Contracts and Resources Manger back in the 1980's and we specifically ensured the wagons used for blue chip customers such as Guinness , Pedigree Petfoods and so on were always clean and properly presented (and even in those days , we had some moronic graffiti sprayers) , such that as a matter of course the wagons were properly cleaned (jet washed) during heavy maintenance and given special cleaning if tagged.

Ditto locomotives used on these services. "Loco-care" - stickers applied inside cabs at Tinley , Saltley etc to show "attention to detail" -

This of course , is what the customer expected - as they would expect from road hauliers.

Maybe I am old fashioned in my thoughts , - but the cleaning regime we then had , was covered in the overall maintenance costs so not a massive cost in my opinion.

 

[stj]

I dont know if they get a regular wash but the Wentloog-Daventry Tesco always looks clean.

 

[furnessvale]

I dont know if they get a regular wash but the Wentloog-Daventry Tesco always looks clean.

Swap bodies can easily pass through a lorry wash wnen being carried by road.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Swap bodies can easily pass through a lorry wash wnen being carried by road.

When Freightliners did domestic traffic - they had a container washing plant at Willesden terminal for the same reasons I used to ensure my VGA wagons etc were kept decent. In FLL terms - Nabisco etc would not accept dirty containers ......

 

[dk1]

I always think it looks such a shame to see graffiti ridden & filthy wagons on our rail network but there is no incentive to keep them looking slick & span unfortunately.

 

[richieb1971]

Passenger traffic don't even clean the windows, good luck with freight.

 

[Jason48]

Just seen the Channel Tunnel freight roll past my window in Purley. About 15 Cargowagon sets behind a Class 66. Everything filthy, rust-streaked, graffitied.

Why can the railway not clean up its act (literally)? Earlier in the week, I travelled past Thornaby yard on Teesside. You could hardly see the sidings for the vegetation.

It's hardly a great look when you're trying to persuade business to switch to rail, arguably because it's cleaner and greener. I can't imagine many road hauliers would allow their equipment or yards to get into such a state.

Who keeps the wagons clean then as they are leased??

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Retail distributors will more likely be persuaded by money than clean rail trucks that the top beancounters and Hollywood's will see. Cleanup of those trucks just for said food retailers will probs add a fair bit on the delivery tab that they'll not like

Besides the crates etc of food etc are well packaged from the outside world, there are far more dirty road trailers transporting your dinner about to the stores without much complaint.

Not sure I agree. Most hauliers involved in food transport have pretty high cleanliness standards these days. Yes, you still get a few 'mucky' operators but they are in the minority and probably operating at the 'cut price' end of the market and almost certainly not in food distribution...
And it's risky to assume that packaging will will prevent contamination of the end product. Dirt from rail wagons can get transferred to people who handle the package...

Passenger traffic don't even clean the windows, good luck with freight.

I don't know. I recently spent a couple of days travelling around the railways of the Middlesbrough/Darlington area. I don't think Middlesbrough station can have had much investment since it was built d in the 1960s. But there were clearly some attempts to keep things swept out and reasonably decent. Likewise the unstaffed stations that I used, like Dinsdale.
But the freight sidings I passed were a riot of untamed vegetation and general disorder.

 

[zwk500]

Who keeps the wagons clean then as they are leased??

Depends on the terms of the lease. But usually you'd have to hand anything you hired back in a reasonable state.

But the freight sidings I passed were a riot of untamed vegetation and general disorder.

It's been very wet then very hot then very wet again. There's only so many strimmers to go round.

 

[The Puddock]

Quite -- I speak with some experience as a BR Contracts and Resources Manger back in the 1980's and we specifically ensured the wagons used for blue chip customers such as Guinness , Pedigree Petfoods and so on were always clean and properly presented (and even in those days , we had some moronic graffiti sprayers) , such that as a matter of course the wagons were properly cleaned (jet washed) during heavy maintenance and given special cleaning if tagged.

Ditto locomotives used on these services. "Loco-care" - stickers applied inside cabs at Tinley , Saltley etc to show "attention to detail" -

This of course , is what the customer expected - as they would expect from road hauliers.

Maybe I am old fashioned in my thoughts , - but the cleaning regime we then had , was covered in the overall maintenance costs so not a massive cost in my opinion.

And yet in the 50s/60s/70s milk tanks were allowed to run about absolutely filthy on the outside -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96836395@N05/51823444182/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96836395@N05/49836971682/

(links to photos - not taken or hosted by me - showing some rather dubious looking tanks)

Of course the inside of these tanks were kept scrupulously clean at both loading and unloading points by the use of steam lances, but the outside and the cheesy whiff they gave off when passing through stations didn't inspire much confidence!

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Quite -- I speak with some experience as a BR Contracts and Resources Manger back in the 1980's and we specifically ensured the wagons used for blue chip customers such as Guinness , Pedigree Petfoods and so on were always clean and properly presented (and even in those days , we had some moronic graffiti sprayers) , such that as a matter of course the wagons were properly cleaned (jet washed) during heavy maintenance and given special cleaning if tagged.

Ditto locomotives used on these services. "Loco-care" - stickers applied inside cabs at Tinley , Saltley etc to show "attention to detail" -

This of course , is what the customer expected - as they would expect from road hauliers.

Maybe I am old fashioned in my thoughts , - but the cleaning regime we then had , was covered in the overall maintenance costs so not a massive cost in my opinion.

Who knows - if you spent a small amount of cash on keeping things looking reasonably clean it might translate into another lucrative new business contract.

 

[75A]

Ditto locomotives used on these services. "Loco-care" - stickers applied inside cabs at Tinley , Saltley etc to show "attention to detail" -

I don't know who provided the 47's for the Manchester - Brighton services in the 80's but we used to wipe our feet on the way out of em.

 

[Samzino]

Who knows - if you spent a small amount of cash on keeping things looking reasonably keen it might translate into another lucrative new business contract.

The assumption is that it costs a small amount to keep them clean, you'd need to hire either manual labor or plan some type of schedule to take the wagons thru a washer which means you spend a bit of money and time + paperwork that could otherwise be the difference between you getting the contract over another who doesn't do much of that and is thus cheaper. Haulers etc are often working on very close profit margins and with the way many companies are trying to scrimp as many £s as possible I doubt they're really going to go the extra mile on keeping the exterior of some wagons clean over more profits.

I'd love clean wagons rolling down the tracks, same with trains, I'd love not see a muddy, greased up train show up but if the consumer is given the choice to spend less and forfeit those or spend more for exterior cleanliness then I have no doubt most will go with the latter, aslong as the interior of the wagon or carriage is to a clean enough standard.

 

[Mike Machin]

The state of many wagons is absolutely disgraceful. Most road hauliers keep their vehicles extremely clean, I recently worked on a new corporate identity scheme for a major road-based logistics company and they jet-wash their vehicles every day, and many vehicles are polished by their drivers when they have time to buff the trucks up to a gleaming mirror finish

In a competitive market place presentation is everything and it’s about time rail freight operators started to take a pride in their assets with some highly polished locomotives and wagons on the network.

 

[Trainfan2019]

It's rare to see freight wagons that are graffiti free never mind dirt which is an added extra.

Only last week I saw a Freightliner train with maybe a dozen hoppers, all had large colourful graffiti on. Some of them had the large Freightliner name completely covered. Some looked like the graffiti had been there a long time as starting to fade. All this was just on one side of the train, no idea how bad/good the other side was.

Do freight train wagons have any sort of cleaning/graffiti removal schedule?

 

[stuu]

Definitely seems worse these days, I saw an aggregate train the other day on the B&H that looked like the New York Subway in the 70s, every wagon was covered in graffiti

 

[furnessvale]

Who keeps the wagons clean then as they are leased??

Most HGVs are leased. The operator keeps them clean.

I always think it looks such a shame to see graffiti ridden & filthy wagons on our rail network but there is no incentive to keep them looking slick & span unfortunately.

When I worked for the BTP years ago we had a very effective incentive against vandalism. We got prison sentences imposed on a number of graffiti "artists". The problem virtually stopped in my area.

Sadly, the powers that be decided the specialist squad I created and ran was no longer required and disbanded it. The problem has now returned with a vengeance.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

The state of many wagons is absolutely disgraceful. Most road hauliers keep their vehicles extremely clean, I recently worked on a new corporate identity scheme for a major road-based logistics company and they jet-wash their vehicles every day, and many vehicles are polished by their drivers when they have time to buff the trucks up to a gleaming mirror finish

In a competitive market place presentation is everything and it’s about time rail freight operators started to take a pride in their assets with some highly polished locomotives and wagons on the network.

To be fair, DRS's Tesco Train has always been very smartly turned out (wagons and loco) whenever I've seen it.
GBRF's locos are also clean and fresh looking.

 

[Turtle]

Most HGVs are leased. The operator keeps them clean.


When I worked for the BTP years ago we had a very effective incentive against vandalism. We got prison sentences imposed on a number of graffiti "artists". The problem virtually stopped in my area.

Sadly, the powers that be decided the specialist squad I created and ran was no longer required and disbanded it. The problem has now returned with a vengeance.

No surprise there. It's the standard response of the powers that be. They never seem to be able to appreciate that prevention is better, and cheaper in the long run, than cure.

 

[12LDA28C]

But the freight sidings I passed were a riot of untamed vegetation and general disorder.

Many of which I suggest are not in use and haven't been for a number of years. Nobody is going to spend time and money clearing tracks which are unlikely to see a train again.

 

[richieb1971]

Graffiti artists seem to be on every bridge and every building Cleaning the vehicles isn't the issue, keeping them in grounds where grafitti artists cannot operate is a more sensible solution.

 

[66701GBRF]

Despite popular belief on here wagons are cleaned of graffiti but usually only as part of their periodic maintenance cycles. Operators can’t afford to lay up wagons that would otherwise be in use. As for what customers want, I’d argue they want their products moved cheaply, cost efficiently and in a timely manner above what wagons might look like….particularly as most customers, or customers of customers, would never or rarely see them.

 

[12LDA28C]

I'd love clean wagons rolling down the tracks, same with trains, I'd love not see a muddy, greased up train show up but if the consumer is given the choice to spend less and forfeit those or spend more for exterior cleanliness then I have no doubt most will go with the latter, aslong as the interior of the wagon or carriage is to a clean enough standard.

I assume you mean 'most will go with the former' for your statement to make sense, and if so I would agree.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The Silver Bullet clay trains were a well know sight in the West and were a sight to see. They were kept in this condition for many years

Photo:Arthur Stopow.

Now for many years they’ve looked like this

Photo:Adrian Nicholls.

 

[ExRes]

What facilities actually exist these days to keep wagons clean? How do you keep a rake of 20 or so JNAs for example that are being used daily for loading, moving and unloading aggregates, waste soil, sand etc, it's far easier to say they should be cleaned than actually do it

 

[Samzino]

I assume you mean 'most will go with the former' for your statement to make sense, and if so I would agree.

Haha sorry yeh meant the former indeed