First Bus new corporate identity

[cactustwirly]

You're looking at some very specific examples and extrapolating that out.

As with all big groups, there are some fairly major differences in our OpCos actually work. In terms of livery, Stagecoach South might be a little slow to repaint but that's in marked contrast to Stagecoach Wales who have just four in beachball (plus some in Gold). It was the same when beachball replaced stripes... I think that came in c.2000 (?) and yet seven years later, you could still find stripes in certain corners of the empire. It's the same with First (Essex and Wales were fast to repaint into Urban yet Barbie lingered for years) and you have some vehicles delivered in 2012 for the Olympics that have never seen a paintbrush, whilst Arriva North East has a number of Pulsars that were new in 2009 and aside from getting the skirt repainted, are still in original Cotswold/Aqua colours. We're seeing it now with the new First livery - loads repainted in Glasgow, quite a few in West and South Yorkshire (excl. Leeds oddly) but virtually nothing south of Birmingham other than Essex.

If anything, I'd say that First are the most annoying for the lack of consistency in presentation. When they do it well, they impress but then you experience something awful on the next journey.

The other thing is about the age profile. First has really tackled this and yes, Stagecoach has fallen behind a bit. That said, they are going to be culling those 20 year old deckers soon as new vehicles and Manchester cascades allow, and Stagecoach has always taken a view on running some older depreciated fleet - it helps the bottom line and allows them to retain services that might not be viable otherwise.

I'm just seeing what the average passenger would see.
My work is served by Stagecoach and it's very inconsistent one day it's a brand new bus, others it's a clapped out 2004 bus or a tatty 2010 bus.

My local route is Go-Ahead and it's slightly better, either a 2019 single decker or a 2010 double, the buses do seem a bit smarter than stagecoach

 

[Sealink]

But the absolute marketing bilge coming from First... it's mind numbing and I think misreading "the room".

I was on a public transport committee in Dorset. First don't even bother to publish a winter timetable here. But they don't remove old web pages so I know dozens of people who try to find times online and have downloaded what they thought was an up to date timetable, except it was years out of date.

This is a company whose web page shows no service on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve even when they are operating.

This is a company who put timetables full of errors at their bus stops, because no one double checked the timetable.


Please First, sort the basics out. I'm not interested in the life story of one of your drivers, how much "My Bus" means to Jerry I just want accurate information about your services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm just seeing what the average passenger would see.
My work is served by Stagecoach and it's very inconsistent one day it's a brand new bus, others it's a clapped out 2004 bus or a tatty 2010 bus.

My local route is Go-Ahead and it's slightly better, either a 2019 single decker or a 2010 double, the buses do seem a bit smarter than stagecoach

It is true that the average passenger sees very little other than their regular operator/operators. However, I'm not certain the average passenger would be drawing comparisons between Stagecoach in Basingstoke and First Berkshire?

In the summer, I was in Norwich (one of the better First Opcos) and you had lots of new fleet but still the inconsistency of this on the same route - both my photos.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In as much as the only complaints they have any interest in are the ones that can be resolved by tea and biccies for a driver, that may be true. The ones about management failings - ridiculous scheduling, inadequate frequency, single deckers that can't cope with demand, lack of information about disruption etc - just get fobbed off.

I don't think many regular passengers in my area have a good word to say for them, the effects of their slashing of the timetable are still being felt by many.

I think the brand is somewhat toxic, associated with a management culture that is more interested in running what is left of the service into the ground, death by a thousand cuts rather than putting on an attractive, useful service that would attract more passengers. But they didn't manage to use the HD Connect, HX Connect etc sub brands to hide the First brand, perhaps because they still needed to sell multi-journey tickets valid on any First service.

I just don't see the point in repainting, especially in West Yorkshire when mayor dustbin takes over come 2026/2027 as the livery will simply be painted over again in a West Yorkshire corperate livery in similar stance to Bee Network.

On the whole I do like the updated livery, I think its great just a shame that local branding couldn't be trickled in somewhere. Its just the back office stuff that just requires improving and everything else will fall into place.

 

[transportphoto]

In the summer, I was in Norwich (one of the better First Opcos) and you had lots of new fleet but still the inconsistency of this on the same route - both my photos.

Of the two buses photographed, the SL67 StreetDeck is formally a Leeds vehicle which transferred to Norwich in LeedsCity Green.

The BG12 Gemini 2 was new to First Games Transport and wears a former Network Norwich livery. Branding was very consistent across Norwich with the coloured routes, although the concept of route painted buses has now been thrown out of the window with the electric fleet.

The diesel fleet remaining are now used on the routes which need diesels regardless of the colour of the paint. I’m guessing these will slowly be repainted into corporate Ultraviolet and Norwich will become consistent again.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Of the two buses photographed, the SL67 StreetDeck is formally a Leeds vehicle which transferred to Norwich in LeedsCity Green.

The BG12 Gemini 2 was new to First Games Transport and wears a former Network Norwich livery. Branding was very consistent across Norwich with the coloured routes, although the concept of route painted buses has now been thrown out of the window with the electric fleet.

The diesel fleet remaining are now used on the routes which need diesels regardless of the colour of the paint. I’m guessing these will slowly be repainted into corporate Ultraviolet and Norwich will become consistent again.

Yes - the influx of new vehicles led to cascades of vehicles from their branded routes to other ones. Norwich was previously good though actually, the yellow front relates to the 28/29 Yellow Line corridor which wasn't one of those to get new vehicles. So it shouldn't have been on the Bungay corridor but operational needs must...

Interestingly, some OpCos are really cracking on with repaints - notably Glasgow and Essex. Meanwhile, others have very, very few. First West of England is getting the green combined authority livery but Wales and Worcester have nothing except some cascades. Cornwall and Somerset have only one (a cascaded ex WY decker - poss TfCornwall red to be adopted??) so it's a mixed bag. Of course, First did paint a number of vehicles into Bee Network yellow and have very quickly repainted these into ultraviolet, and Eastern Counties/South Yorkshire had a number of green ex Leeds Streetdecks that they prioritise in repaints.

I just don't see the point in repainting, especially in West Yorkshire when mayor dustbin takes over come 2026/2027 as the livery will simply be painted over again in a West Yorkshire corperate livery in similar stance to Bee Network

I guess that they've not repainted as much and if you then don't repaint for another two years then some of the fleet will look awful. It might also be that those repainted are more likely to be cascaded to other OpCos.

However, more pertinently, many of those that have been repainted... ones in Leeds green that had been transferred to Bradford, ones ex Bee Network that needed to be repainted out of yellow, and the ex Eclipse Streetlites that were in purple. They all needed painting and form the bulk of those treated.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I guess that they've not repainted as much and if you then don't repaint for another two years then some of the fleet will look awful.

True.

It might also be that those repainted are more likely to be cascaded to other OpCos. However, more pertinently, many of those that have been repainted... ones in Leeds green that had been transferred to Bradford, ones ex Bee Network that needed to be repainted out of yellow, and the ex Eclipse Streetlites that were in purple. They all needed painting and form the bulk of those treated.

I've noticed one Streetlite that has been running on the 548 (Halifax to Rastrick) in both the new livery and fleetnames, given the impending franchising in West Yorkshire I do reckon that there could be some local transfers depending on which depot is franchised with all the new/better stuff moved elsewhere.

 

[Goldfish62]

Cornwall and Somerset have only one (a cascaded ex WY decker - poss TfCornwall red to be adopted??) so it's a mixed bag.

Somerset have been doing repaints. So far three Streetlites are in fully-branded corporate livery.

The cascaded Cornwall one is unbranded, in keeping with much of the fleet.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Somerset have been doing repaints. So far three Streetlites are in fully-branded corporate livery.

Of course they have - I’ve seen one outside the new Yeovil depot. Must be my age Three isn’t many but then again, Somerset is due a lot of electrics so much of the fleet ain’t gonna survive that.

Not seen the Cornwall fleet for a little while (since March?) but imagine it’s looking rough.

 

[Goldfish62]

Of course they have - I’ve seen one outside the new Yeovil depot. Must be my age Three isn’t many but then again, Somerset is due a lot of electrics so much of the fleet ain’t gonna survive that.

Not seen the Cornwall fleet for a little while (since March?) but imagine it’s looking rough.

Somerset has always been slow with repaints and as you say the future displacement of much of the fleet makes it not particularly worthwhile anyway.

Yes, the Cornwall fleet looks terrible now. If repaints ever get going again there's going to be a nigh-on impossible backlog to get through. Even the 12-plate ex Sheffield B9s are starting to look rough - winter dirt is sticking to the glue residue from removal of the Sheffield names.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Somerset has always been slow with repaints and as you say the future displacement of much of the fleet makes it not particularly worthwhile anyway.

Yes, the Cornwall fleet looks terrible now. If repaints ever get going again there's going to be a nigh-on impossible backlog to get through. Even the 12-plate ex Sheffield B9s are starting to look rough - winter dirt is sticking to the glue residue from removal of the Sheffield names.

I imagine the ex Norwich ones look battered?

Perhaps repainting the Solos out of redundant Lizard and DayTripper schemes might be a start!

 

[Goldfish62]

I imagine the ex Norwich ones look battered?

Yes, terrible. Bare metal is showing through in places.

Some of the Tinner-liveried MMCs now have adverts applied over the branding, but with the branding sticking out around the edges.

 

[43055]

Interestingly, some OpCos are really cracking on with repaints - notably Glasgow and Essex. Meanwhile, others have very, very few. First West of England is getting the green combined authority livery but Wales and Worcester have nothing except some cascades. Cornwall and Somerset have only one (a cascaded ex WY decker - poss TfCornwall red to be adopted??) so it's a mixed bag. Of course, First did paint a number of vehicles into Bee Network yellow and have very quickly repainted these into ultraviolet, and Eastern Counties/South Yorkshire had a number of green ex Leeds Streetdecks that they prioritise in repaints.

Even more interesting is that first potteries seems to be painting for every other depot except themselves.

 

[G760XRE]

Even more interesting is that first potteries seems to be painting for every other depot except themselves.

Thought this myself. Although they have doubled their own repaints to 4, as there are 2 ex Leicester Streetlites recently repainted which are yet to re enter service. However the ex Eclipse E200MMCs have been running around with vinyls proclaiming they'll be 'repainted soon' for must be 2 years now!

 

[Christmas]

I've only just realised that the new corporate identity is purely for First Bus and not First Group, which seems to be continuing with the mre traditional First flying f.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've only just realised that the new corporate identity is purely for First Bus and not First Group, which seems to be continuing with the mre traditional First flying f.

Yes, that's right. The flying f lives on - just not for buses!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've only just realised that the new corporate identity is purely for First Bus and not First Group, which seems to be continuing with the mre traditional First flying f.

It's not at all unusual for companies to have a totally separate brand identity for the corporate group and the public facing operating divisions. I know it's now renamed itself entirely, but National Express/National Express Group used to be an example of this.

Of course it won't be long before First is just a bus company aside from the open access stuff which doesn't tend to use the First brand very much if at all.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Thing is, I've never seen a First Group corporate livery that I have liked. I have never liked their house colours. Why couldn't they have stuck to the colours used by Badgerline?

 

[Simon75]

It's not at all unusual for companies to have a totally separate brand identity for the corporate group and the public facing operating divisions. I know it's now renamed itself entirely, but National Express/National Express Group used to be an example of this.

Of course it won't be long before First is just a bus company aside from the open access stuff which doesn't tend to use the First brand very much if at all.

Thought for example the National bus company had the same logo for both buses and coaches and the parent company.

 

[GusB]

Thing is, I've never seen a First Group corporate livery that I have liked. I have never liked their house colours. Why couldn't they have stuck to the colours used by Badgerline?

Why couldn't they have stuck to the scheme used by GRT Group?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thing is, I've never seen a First Group corporate livery that I have liked. I have never liked their house colours. Why couldn't they have stuck to the colours used by Badgerline?

I can understand why they went for something other than Badgerline colours. First of all, it was to tie in with the overall colour scheme including the new interiors. Secondly, Moir was keen to get away from Badgerline and have a clean, fresh identity. I didn't mind the original barbie willow leaf when it was new. The problem was two fold... It was often not kept clean, and then they had the bright idea of the follow up for non-First Bus interior with the version with the "fades" - which was poorly applied, looked grim, was hard to maintain etc.

As with many things in life, the idea wasn't bad but the execution was!

Why couldn't they have stuck to the scheme used by GRT Group?

And indeed, that's where they ended up in recent years with many different schemes albeit to a common template. Mind you, even the template wasn't uniformly used (e.g. Bristol, South West).

FWIW, I actually think the new purple livery is quite pleasant and that is, of course, subjective. Again, the proof will be in the execution and we've already seen many instances of base livery done but no vinyls.

 

[Andyh82]

If the new livery had come in straight after ‘Olympia’, then I imagine it would be getting universal praise.

The fact it’s coming on replacing lots of local schemes, some of which were very well developed is why it’s getting a mixed reaction

I’m sure since they introduced the new livery they seem to be moving buses around more and badly allocating buses almost to justify it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If the new livery had come in straight after ‘Olympia’, then I imagine it would be getting universal praise.

The fact it’s coming on replacing lots of local schemes, some of which were very well developed is why it’s getting a mixed reaction

I’m sure since they introduced the new livery they seem to be moving buses around more and badly allocating buses almost to justify it.

Can’t help but agree with your first two paragraphs.

As for the moving of buses, it looks like it but it’s just a reflection of a lot of electric vehicles being delivered and an overdue consolidation of vehicle types to certain OpCos

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Can’t help but agree with your first two paragraphs.

As for the moving of buses, it looks like it but it’s just a reflection of a lot of electric vehicles being delivered and an overdue consolidation of vehicle types to certain OpCos

There has been a stated policy within group of type standardisation where possible, and that's beginning to become clearer.