First Class: Is it worth it?

[me123]

Is it worth paying extra money to travel First Class?

I have to say that this would depend entirely on the train you are travelling on, and to prove this point I shall take two different services:

First Scotrail: Glasgow Queen Street to Aberdeen

The trains are almost always 3 carriage 170s, with a small FC sute at either end. For the two-and-a-half hour journey, passengers get slightly more comfy seats, stupid looking table lamps and are separated from Standard Class by a "barrier". They get a full waiter service where catering is available, whereas standard class passengers wait for the trolley. Of course, on such a short train, the trolley is never far away anyway. You also get a newspaper.

Extra Money Required for FC: £53 (Advance Return 2 vs First Open Return)
Worth it?: Nope
Why: No included seat reservation, not many perks, a much greater price than SC.

Virgin West Coast: Glasgow Central to London Euston

A seat reservation in the tilting pendolino, with free food served en route with FC hosts. Comfortable, free stuff, no need to leave your seat (at least on weekdays) and a fast service to the Capital. Standard Class must walk to the shop adn get no onboard meal service.

Extra Money Required for FC: £25.50 (Value Advance Single C vs Value Advance 1st Single C)
Worth it?: Yes
Why: For a mere £25, you get complimentary food, more comfortable seating, and FC service onboard the train. The cheaper fare may suffice, but the upgrade is definately worth it.

Of course, these are my opinions.

 

[rail-britain]

First Scotrail: Glasgow Queen Street to Aberdeen
The trains are almost always 3 carriage 170s, with a small FC sute at either end. For the two-and-a-half hour journey, passengers get slightly more comfy seats, stupid looking table lamps and are separated from Standard Class by a "barrier". They get a full waiter service where catering is available, whereas standard class passengers wait for the trolley. Of course, on such a short train, the trolley is never far away anyway. You also get a newspaper.
Extra Money Required for FC: £53 (Advance Return 2 vs First Open Return)
Worth it?: Nope
Why: No included seat reservation, not many perks, a much greater price than SC

First Class on (regional) DMUs has almost always just been firmer and comfier seats, and for Class 158s and 170s it is still 2+2 seating arrangement
Calling it a "waiter service" is a bit extreme, as I'm not aware of a dedicated member of staff for FC
Personally, for First Class between Aberdeen - Edinburgh and Inverness - Edinburgh travel by GNER or Virgin Trains, and at least with VT you still get the "free" refreshments

Virgin West Coast: Glasgow Central to London Euston
Extra Money Required for FC: £25.50 (Value Advance Single C vs Value Advance 1st Single C)
Worth it?: Yes
Why: For a mere £25, you get complimentary food, more comfortable seating, and FC service onboard the train. The cheaper fare may suffice, but the upgrade is definately worth it

On all the fares I have compared it is less than £25, but then again you are comparing Value Advance fares only
The cheapest Value Advance 1st Single is £43.00, but doesn't appear very often!

Disadvantage is at weekends, when there is no at-seat service, all you are then paying for is unlimited basic refreshments and a comfier seat

Wait until the 2008 Glasgow - London tmetable, it is quite radical...
Very few services call at Motherwell, and there are very few services that stop between Warrington and Euston
Also a day trip is more practical, with the 04:30 Glasgow - Euston

 

[Callufrax]

I'd have to say on certain trains, too. For short hops, or short trains, it's not worth it.

 

[yorkie]

If I'm on GNER, with free WiFi, a great at-seat service, and the chance to (potentially) be right behind a Valenta, it's well worth it.

But if I got the set without WiFi and an MTU (admittedly this isn't likely as they tend to keep these sets with the Valenta power cars that are not being retained by GNER) then I'd not consider it worthwhile at all.

But then, to some people WiFi doesn't matter (they may want peace and quiet to read a book), and for most people they won't care about the traction.

It really depends on exactly what people want, compared with what the TOC in question provides, and then it boils down to the price. Another factor can be the difference between FC and SC - on busier trains it may mean getting a seat versus not getting a seat and it's difficult to put a price on that - not to mention being unable to predict if that's going to be the case or not.

 

[Max]

But if I got the set without WiFi and an MTU (admittedly this isn't likely as they tend to keep these sets with the Valenta power cars that are not being retained by GNER) then I'd not consider it worthwhile at all.

Could there be some scope for a refund if there is no WiFi available, and perhaps there is some staffing shortage or the train is very busy, meaning there is no trolley either?

 

[rail-britain]

I was under the impression that all GNER services now have WiFi
When NatEx takeover WiFi will be free to all passengers, so that is that benefit gone
WiFi is due to be fitted on Class 390s shortly

 

[me123]

Calling it a "waiter service" is a bit extreme, as I'm not aware of a dedicated member of staff for FC

Personally, for First Class between Aberdeen - Edinburgh and Inverness - Edinburgh travel by GNER or Virgin Trains, and at least with VT you still get the "free" refreshments

Wait until the 2008 Glasgow - London timetable, it is quite radical...
Very few services call at Motherwell, and there are very few services that stop between Warrington and Euston
Also a day trip is more practical, with the 04:30 Glasgow - Euston

1. Although, I do believe that you can ask the on board team (of which there are never more than four not inculding the driver) for refreshments at any point of the journey when they are available. I've nevertravelled FC at all, so I'mnot entirely sure how it works.

2. I do try to do VT and GNER when possible up to Aberdeen, but have so far been unsuccessful. None of their journeys seem to fit in my their plans.

3. I'm looking forward to it! is this when they're trying to introduce the hourly service?

 

[Nick W]

I only ever get first class when it's cheaper than standard class.

 

[devon_metro]

Same here

FGW advance promo were great.

 

[Tom]

I was under the impression that all GNER services now have WiFi
When NatEx takeover WiFi will be free to all passengers, so that is that benefit gone
WiFi is due to be fitted on Class 390s shortly

Nope - there is an ex Virgin set running around ...

 

[First ScotRail]

3. I'm looking forward to it! is this when they're trying to introduce the hourly service?

Near enough yes.

FSR 1st class you get a reclining seat, table and reading light (above head), complimentary tea/coffee/water plus a biscuit/blueberry muffin, and a free local newspaper MON-FRI. You can also use lounges at stations eg millenium in glasgow and the edb sleeper lounge (MON-FRI) Also you do get a seat reservation if you book online or at the station if you so wish.

 

[devon_metro]

I find it funny how FGWs refurb didn't get wifi :?

 

[First ScotRail]

They didnt want to have some refur'd coaches with it and others not (eg not a full reburb set) So they have put it on hold. They are however looking into it and a trial is expected at FSR as they will be the test company for it last i heard. I think FGW are more interested in getting the trains on-time than with wi-fi!

 

[Tom]

Funny that - I was always of the opinion that FGW could never run on time and in order to look better they just introduce a new livery.... :???:

 

[coupwotcoup]

First class on Eurostar is the nuts....Food is excellent, and the free wine and shampoo.... I have been like a pig in sh!t every time I have done it... and rather drunk too!:razz:

 

[voyagerdude220]

Near enough yes.


FSR 1st class you get a reclining seat, table and reading light (above head), complimentary tea/coffee/water plus a biscuit/blueberry muffin, and a free local newspaper MON-FRI. You can also use lounges at stations eg millenium in glasgow and the edb sleeper lounge (MON-FRI) Also you do get a seat reservation if you book online or at the station if you so wish.

My long-ish post is below..

I would normally vote for yes, but there's distinct reasons why I haven't.

I always travel FC [but when I'm paying myself for leisure, it's usually Value Firsts], but when I went up to Aberdeen for the day in August, I purchased a FSR £19.50 (i think) advance std return, and then also bought a GNER first with 10% discount. I bought the £20 return, as it was cheaper than the SDS.

It made me very annoyed , that FSR "expected" me to pay £19.50 (return fare) for FC, or £55.50 for FC.

I was very impressed with GNER's complimentary service Aberdeen-Edinburgh, and it was well worth the £22.25 (i think) i payed.

On the subject of FC [as mentioned else where on the forum], I'm probably going to do Manchester-Sheffield-London St P- London Kings Cross-York-Manchester.

When i looked up the fares a few weeks ago, I realised that I could perhaps to Kings Cross-Hull-Manchester, but it would cost ALOT.

£64 Kings Cross-Hull FC, instead of GNER's fare of around £29.50 to York.

TPE annoyingly only do returns at the moment, which are very good value, but not for my plan.

Unless someone on here gives me a very good reason for spending
£100+, vice £50-60, i'm definately going to stick with GNER.

I would be very interested to see what Meridians are like on MML, do they feature the same levels of service as MML HSTs (which in turn i'm guessing is similar to FGW, not GNER- drinks & biscuits)?

Note for Gizmogle: Virgin is very good for FC, and I may be doing the 07:15 Manchester to London in a few weeks time, for £30, vice £168.30. The 07:45 is also showing up with Value First B.

Edit: I forgot to say that I love TPE FC on 185's, which is very comfortable, and best of all- Includes very nice pastries & biscuits- better than FGW! Is FC he same on 170's? Do any 185's operate between Manchester & Hull, or is it just 170's?

 

[devon_metro]

Catering in FC on FGW is awful. The trolley came out once in about 4 hours. Pastries were stale and the old bag at the buffet was the grumpiest person i've ever met! Bear in mind ive never NOT had a grumpy woman at the Buffet.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Catering in FC on FGW is awful. The trolley came out once in about 4 hours. Pastries were stale and the old bag at the buffet was the grumpiest person i've ever met! Bear in mind ive never NOT had a grumpy woman at the Buffet.

Exactly- I remember going on the 16:00 Paddington to Taunton, between Reading & Highbridge earlier this year. Luckily for me, the train was 30 late, and started at Reading, due to earlier problems that day.

I was caught up myself in the North West, so was very glad about the delay.

I was far less impressed with the state of the HST [un-refurbished] however, as it was full of litter, which the TM apologised for, and there wasn't even a trolley onboard, let alone a static one by the buffet for 4 hours.

I remember ending up buying a disgusting hot breakfast bap, and being very annoyed at FGW.

At least I was sat in the table in coach H, which was right by the non-MTU'd PC

I've never even been on a FGW train which had pastries on :roll: (only pretzels, which are included in VT snack boxes) , and only travel FC, because it's dead cheap if you get the cheapest advance single.

I've never been on a refurbished HST before, nor an MTU'd one, given the lack of FGW HSTs i've been on recently.

FGW couldn't even offer me pastries, but TPE could, and their trains are far better!

 

[Max]

I forgot to say that I love TPE FC on 185's, which is very comfortable, and best of all- Includes very nice pastries & biscuits- better than FGW! Is FC he same on 170's? Do any 185's operate between Manchester & Hull, or is it just 170's?

First class isn't really worth it on a 170 as there is a declassified end which is exactly the same :roll:. There are some 185s to Hull, but don't expect it to last long. More 170s are on the way.

 

[voyagerdude220]

First class isn't really worth it on a 170 as there is a declassified end which is exactly the same :roll:. There are some 185s to Hull, but don't expect it to last long. More 170s are on the way.

That's exactly what i thought, thanks Max.

I think i'll simply use GNER Kings Cross to York then, but i'm still very tempted by HT.

I've not booked anything yet though, as GC could be interesting, but i'll certainly book something within the next few weeks once i've decided when i'm going.

Do you possibly know which TPE services to Hull are 185's, just incase I ever go there on a seperate trip?

 

[yorkie]

I think i'll simply use GNER Kings Cross to York then, but i'm still very tempted by HT.

The chance to be right behind a Valenta, plus free Wifi, versus rattling around in a DMU? no contest. The money you save by going with GNER can be put toward food anyway. The food portions on Hull Trains are extremely small.

 

[rail-britain]

Another positive point with the GNER website
Once you have found the service you want to use you are then given the coach and seat number BEFORE you make payment
If you have a seating plan you can decided if you want to proceed or refresh for a different seat
Works for most services with reservations, and is almost essential for VT (as some seats have "no view")

 

[voyagerdude220]

The chance to be right behind a Valenta, plus free Wifi, versus rattling around in a DMU? no contest. The money you save by going with GNER can be put toward food anyway. The food portions on Hull Trains are extremely small.

Yep, I agree 100%, as said before, it's just that people on the net have said how good the service on HT is.

If it's just going to be a small meal, then i'd forget it completely, as I would be looking for something which does NOT require me to eat something else almost as soon as i've consumed the "complimentary" meal.

Another positive point with the GNER website
Once you have found the service you want to use you are then given the coach and seat number BEFORE you make payment
If you have a seating plan you can decided if you want to proceed or refresh for a different seat
Works for most services with reservations, and is almost essential for VT (as some seats have "no view")

Yes, it is a very good service, but:

a) I don't have a seating plan (Although I could probably easily get a GNER one somewhere on the net), but

b) The coach M(?) on GNER HSTs, is rarely offered for Value First singles for some reason. When I travelled on the HST Aberdeen-Edinburgh, I simply sat in a seat which wasn't reserved on that leg of the journey, and the TM (Well the lady who did tickets in FC at least) didn't say anything.

Am i right in thinking that GNER (on HSTs at least) has 2 members of staff doing revenue protection- 1 in FC, and 1 in SC? It's just that I think I remember reading it in a RAIL magazine once.

 

[Max]

I've not booked anything yet though, as GC could be interesting, but i'll certainly book something within the next few weeks once i've decided when i'm going.

You could always wait until the class 86+47 service starts, that would be better than a 222! Just to warn you though, free food is only offered Monday-Friday. Just light refreshments at the weekend.

Do you possibly know which TPE services to Hull are 185's, just incase I ever go there on a seperate trip?

I think there are diagrams, but they're a bit hit and miss. I'm also not sure where they can be found, or whether they're even in the public domain.

If it's just going to be a small meal, then i'd forget it completely, as I would be looking for something which does NOT require me to eat something else almost as soon as i've consumed the "complimentary" meal.

The portions aren't huge, but its a three course meal, so I wouldn't expect you to be going hungry straight away. Remember that you don't get any proper food free on GNER!

Am i right in thinking that GNER (on HSTs at least) has 2 members of staff doing revenue protection- 1 in FC, and 1 in SC? It's just that I think I remember reading it in a RAIL magazine once.

I don't think this is the case, but I could be wrong!

 

[rail-britain]

Am i right in thinking that GNER (on HSTs at least) has 2 members of staff doing revenue protection- 1 in FC, and 1 in SC? It's just that I think I remember reading it in a RAIL magazine once.

When I worked on ICEC all trains had one Senior Conductors and specific trains had additional conductors, of various grades

I worked an early morning Newcastle to Edinburgh once, and at Dunbar we made an additional stop and I noticed the platform was almost full
I never found out what train in front had failed, but I walked down the platform to the centre of the train and got the station staff to give the driver the RA
Normally for this working I'd be lucky to write five tickets, and my book only had about a dozen left in it

Most of the workings I was allocated were HST between Aberdeen and Edinburgh, or Edinburgh and Newcastle
For Edinburgh - Newcastle this had two Senior Conductors and we started at each end of the train and worked towards each other
Typically, work First Class southbound then swap and do Standard northbound, although some Sentior Conductors "always" wanted to do First Class southbound
I found the commission was better with Standard southbound

Lastly, there was always a "spare" Senior Conductor at Edinburgh
However, there was a very late running Inverness - KX
The Senior Conductor was swapped for another (otherwise he'd have only worked southbound and then had to have had a day off)
A further two Senior Conductors were also allocated, of which I was one, and we were instructed to assist until York, then travel back passenger
I got off at York, but the other Senior Conductor couldn't be found
Even with two announcements he still didn't appear
So I was instructed to take his kit bag with me
It was tight making the train back from York as it had already arrived and was being held for us
Just as the train left York I got a pager message
"Alec here, may the force be with me as I now need accomodation as I have just passed Retford"

 

[thomasgholmes]

I voted on certain trains.
Because if it`s a short distantce no point.
But if it`s a long distance and not much more expensive i`d go firs class.

 

[mrcheek]

Im currently 5 days into a 14 day first class all line rover!
First class is definitely worth if on FGW. as for Virgin Im undecided. On Voyagers, nice seats, nice free food and drink, but only one carriage for first class, and it can get very full. and if theres someone opposite you using up your legroom, it defeats the object of first class. and I dont like Pendolinos. the windows are too small and it feels really odd.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Im currently 5 days into a 14 day first class all line rover!
First class is definitely worth if on FGW. as for Virgin Im undecided. On Voyagers, nice seats, nice free food and drink, but only one carriage for first class, and it can get very full. and if theres someone opposite you using up your legroom, it defeats the object of first class. and I dont like Pendolinos. the windows are too small and it feels really odd.

FC- Worth it on FGW?!!?!?! Someone please get a doctor (& drugs) to this person ASAP!!! :neutral:hock::-P It's rubbish!!! Whenever i've been on it, i've just done it because it cost me a few pennies compared to other TOCs!

I've realised the Voyager bit, and always make a beeline for airline seats on Voyagers, as it really does make a big difference. Just by me getting an Airline seat (shock horror!), I enjoy the journey alot more, and i can relax alot more.

It is the total opposite on TPE 185's however, as when my carriage was empty (again, shock horror! ) , I just tried an airline seat for legroom, and it was quite uncomfortable. I was just very thankful that I picked very nice table seats on the same set, for the return journey.

 

[rail-britain]

I dont like Pendolinos. the windows are too small and it feels really odd.

First Class in 390s, try these seats they are the best for legroom, privacy, and window view :
southbound -
G45
G15
J35
northbound -
G1
G36
J26
K3

 

[voyagerdude220]

K3

I would avoid that one, because of the letter included-

Coach K is usually noisy with the kitchen being there, but also, the tilt is more extreme in the carriage, due to the way the Pendo recieves the signal to tilt etc.

I tend to stick with coaches H and J, although G is usually empty on Birmingham runs, apart from when groups of 4 Afro Brumies sit in FC for a few minutes with SC tickets, before the TM boots them out :-P

I was personally very disapointed with the lack of ticket checks on Pendos earlier this year, but it suddenly improved greatly in August/September, with very good TMs commencing checks straight after they've given two to the driver at New Street, and done the PA.