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First Greater Glasgow

LT02 NVV

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12 Nov 2019
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295
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Glasgow
Yes. 44679-44690 are going off lease.
Why is that happening again?

As I don’t see why they’re going off lease, yet the full length YX68 USx/UTx E200MMCs, and the YX68 UPx E400MMCs are not going off-lease too? Since they are all part of the batch of buses built and registered in Yorkshire for First Glasgow.
 
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SarahDFIG

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9 Jan 2019
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Just like the rumours of the E300s going off lease months ago. Until it actually happens take what is said with a pinch of salt.

Also that bustimes is a mess also with people just submitted what ever they like.
 

LT02 NVV

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Just like the rumours of the E300s going off lease months ago. Until it actually happens take what is said with a pinch of salt.

Also that bustimes is a mess also with people just submitted what ever they like.
Yeah, I know, some user made a bunch of fake edits and said people who didn’t agree with them were bigoted.
 

LT02 NVV

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What is meant by “Off Lease”? Does this mean First don’t own their buses?
Pretty much, yeah. It has happened with Glasgow before, with a Fleet of Optare Solos for the 89/90 services being leased, then sold off to other companies (one of them did run with Avondale at one point).
 
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jazza374

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Motherwell
Why though? That’s what I’m wondering really.
That I do not know. Could possibly be the leasing costs are not justified by the performance of the Lanarkshire local services and it was cheaper to buy/lease 2nd hand ex London stock. Will be interesting to see if the ex London vehicles appear on the Maxim Park 242’s. Always been under the impression that Maxim Park contributed something to First to provide the extension from Holytown and specified that the vehicles used had to be modern.

I see the first of the “new” vehicles to work from Overtown 44443 lasted 7 hours on the 254 then was subbed. Possible sign of things to come reliability wise?
 
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It's the post they wrote when they first got them ranting and raving about them then years down the line they get replaced with buses that are nearly 10 years older than them, They're Euro 6 but it's the principle with that type of thing.
 

SarahDFIG

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It's the post they wrote when they first got them ranting and raving about them then years down the line they get replaced with buses that are nearly 10 years older than them, They're Euro 6 but it's the principle with that type of thing.
2009 comes to mind. First made big song and dance about it in newspaper or council media regarding new vehicles for Hamilton for the 226; the small YX09 ADL e200s were the buses. They lasted a very short time before being sent down south.

It wasn't until 2015/2016, I believe, until they saw new vehicles again. All publicity for First then when it's died down move the vehicles on.

It's embarrassing for First to run older vehicles in Lanarkshire, especially when the independent operators are mostly running B8RLE Evoras.

The ex-London e200 interior seats look uncomfortable to say the least.
 

Noddy1

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So is there not going to be a new bus order for Glasgow. Are we back to cascades from London and other parts of England?. The buses on the 201 are definitely beginning to show their age as I have seen several broken down in the last few weeks
 

JumpinTrainz

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So is there not going to be a new bus order for Glasgow. Are we back to cascades from London and other parts of England?. The buses on the 201 are definitely beginning to show their age as I have seen several broken down in the last few weeks
I too was hoping we would have heard something to replace the ageing B9TLs not add to them!

The E300s are nice enough buses but are definitely showing their age now. They could be doing with an internal refurb.
 
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I too was hoping we would have heard something to replace the ageing B9TLs not add to them!

The E300s are nice enough buses but are definitely showing their age now. They could be doing with an internal refurb.
Yet many of the B9TLs still drive nicer than those E300s.

I’d rather drive a B9 that a much newer EV or MMC, the best buses Glasgow has ever had/has are those B9s
 

TheGrandWazoo

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So is there not going to be a new bus order for Glasgow. Are we back to cascades from London and other parts of England?. The buses on the 201 are definitely beginning to show their age as I have seen several broken down in the last few weeks

I too was hoping we would have heard something to replace the ageing B9TLs not add to them!

The E300s are nice enough buses but are definitely showing their age now. They could be doing with an internal refurb.
I doubt you'll be getting any cascades from London.

It's just that there are lots of areas in England where First are investing at the moment that haven't had much investment in many years and/or have to take advantage of ZEBRA funding. When Glasgow was getting the 200 new electric vehicles to join the new 50 x e200mmc and c.100 x e400mmc, places like Norwich didn't get anything. First Cymru has had 10 new vehicles in 8 years.

That's not to say that stuff like the e300 on the One isn't beginning to show its age. More likely is that this is a break as there are greater challenges on fleet elsewhere in the First empire.
 

Noddy1

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Fair enough we have been a bit spoilt in Glasgow with gaining a lot of new vehicles so I guess we will need to wait and see what happens
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Fair enough we have been a bit spoilt in Glasgow with gaining a lot of new vehicles so I guess we will need to wait and see what happens
Yeah, it's true that First Glasgow is a major profit maker and should receive strong vehicle investment. Just at the moment, it's the realisation of the ZEBRA schemes in England with lots of "match funding" to be found by First for fleet as they take advantage of the funding esp regarding infrastructure in depots. Doubtless Glasgow will be back on the new vehicle path soon enough, even if it might be a blend of replacing the oldest B9s and allowing some cascades to be undertaken as we've seen to Berkshire and Essex.
 

G42

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Hopefully any cascades are the 66 plate MMCs and not the newer 68 plates.
 
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Fair enough we have been a bit spoilt in Glasgow with gaining a lot of new vehicles so I guess we will need to wait and see what happens
The LEZ is the only reason…we would’ve most likely still had some B7s in service if this hadn’t been introduced..

Not least in Glasgow where there are many more 68/19 plates than 65/66 plates
And even then many of those 65/66 plates sound and feel clapped out already to travel on and drive.
 

JumpinTrainz

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It seems madness that First are actually selling off E200MMCs that are some of the more modern diesel buses they have in the fleet. Especially being shorter they’re perfect for quieter routes.

I wonder if First Glasgow have longer term plans to make Lanarkshire locals electric with Blantyre going electric.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It seems madness that First are actually selling off E200MMCs that are some of the more modern diesel buses they have in the fleet. Especially being shorter they’re perfect for quieter routes.

I wonder if First Glasgow have longer term plans to make Lanarkshire locals electric with Blantyre going electric.
I thought they were leased?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Maybe Ensign are selling them for the leasing company?
Whatever the physical practice of disposal, if they are leased (?) then they are the property of the leasing company so it's them selling not First.

Now it could be that First could buy them but on what terms, and it might be that the financials of 2018 on those routes are markedly different to those now.
 

JumpinTrainz

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Whatever the physical practice of disposal, if they are leased (?) then they are the property of the leasing company so it's them selling not First.

Now it could be that First could buy them but on what terms, and it might be that the financials of 2018 on those routes are markedly different to those now.
Perhaps. It just seems sad to see modern euro 6 buses go when there’s E300s in much worse condition.

There was talk that some E300s were going off lease but not sure if that was just a rumour?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Perhaps. It just seems sad to see modern euro 6 buses go when there’s E300s in much worse condition.

There was talk that some E300s were going off lease but not sure if that was just a rumour?
I remember that rumour. It was either tosh, or that someone had heard about some of the early Streetlites (Sheffield and Leicester) going off lease after a ten year term and got confused? If those YW68s are leased and are going back, it may simply be economics have changed.

I do take your point about the e300s - it is probably just a reflection that First have commitments in England to satisfy if they want to get the electrification progressed i.e. they get the infrastructure paid for but you need to fund much of the new vehicle cost. For example, Norwich has just received a slew of Kites and Electroliners that have replaced 2005 Eclipses, 2002/3 B7TLs (plus allowing B9s to cascade) - that opco had only 20 new vehicles in 10 years previously.

I'm sure that Glasgow will resume new vehicle deliveries but the need is more pressing elsewhere at the moment.
 

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