First Greater Glasgow

[Glasgowbusguy]

What are the fares on the 77 from Glasgow city centre to the airport as I can't find anything on the First website?

 

[mb88]

I was looking up something on Google Streetview this morning and stumbled across a First single decker on Caneluk Avenue in Carluke. Sadly you can’t make out the route number only the destination which reads ‘Carluke via Motherwell’. Can anyone help with what service this would have been? Interested in the route it would have taken round this part of Carluke as some of the roads round there are a bit on the narrow side, certainly it’s only an Optare Solo that goes round there now on the SPT tendered Carluke town service.

 

[SamGFields]

I was looking up something on Google Streetview this morning and stumbled across a First single decker on Caneluk Avenue in Carluke. Sadly you can’t make out the route number only the destination which reads ‘Carluke via Motherwell’. Can anyone help with what service this would have been? Interested in the route it would have taken round this part of Carluke as some of the roads round there are a bit on the narrow side, certainly it’s only an Optare Solo that goes round there now on the SPT tendered Carluke town service.

That was the 240 wasn't it, when First were trying to bully McKindless/JMB off the road? They initially tried taking the 240 to Lanark, with weekly tickets at a discounted 8 quid (Going back a while). When that didn't work they cut out Lanark to serve Wilton Rd instead. The wee bit you've seen is how they turned.

 

[mb88]

That was the 240 wasn't it, when First were trying to bully McKindless/JMB off the road? They initially tried taking the 240 to Lanark, with weekly tickets at a discounted 8 quid (Going back a while), when that daint work they cut out Lanark to serve Wilton Rd instead. The wee bit you've seen is how they turned.

Thank you for confirming! I was aware that it went through to Lanark at one time (and even Peebles going back many years) but I’d always assumed it went the main road as per the present day JMB 41, and it was a bit of surprise to see a First bus round the scheme in Carluke.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 240 is an interesting bus to be honest. It had 4 different terminus points depending on the time of day at one point with Carluke and Pather being every 20 minutes each during the day but it ran to Overtown or Motherwell in the evening and Sundays as it still does to the day.

One thing I've always wondered is how busy is it between Wishaw and Overtown during the day? The furthest I've ever used it is to Wishaw so don't know if it's well used beyond that or is it a case of the depot being so handy to turn at that they won't ever cut that section of the route?

 

[adrock1976]

Was the 240 a KCB route, even though it also passed near the garage at Parkhead?

Also, when both Strathclyde Buses and KCB became part of the present day First Group, was the 240 solely operated by the former KCB garage at Motherwell?

On a quick final note, did Parkhead ever operate any former KCB routes? I am aware that Possilpark operated the Kirkintilloch KCB and Knightswood operated the (I think) 115-118 (Duntocher via Great Western Road, Anniesland Cross, Canniesburn Toll, Bearsden, and Faifley, and Milngavie/Baljaffray via Maryhill Road, Canniesburn Toll, Milngavie Station), and maybe the X64 Glasgow - Old Kilpatrick Gavinburn Place via Clydeside Expressway.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Was the 240 a KCB route, even though it also passed near the garage at Parkhead?

Also, when both Strathclyde Buses and KCB became part of the present day First Group, was the 240 solely operated by the former KCB garage at Motherwell?

The 240 was a Central SMT then Kelvin Central route before the First takeover.

On a quick final note, did Parkhead ever operate any former KCB routes? I am aware that Possilpark operated the Kirkintilloch KCB and Knightswood operated the (I think) 115-118 (Duntocher via Great Western Road, Anniesland Cross, Canniesburn Toll, Bearsden, and Faifley, and Milngavie/Baljaffray via Maryhill Road, Canniesburn Toll, Milngavie Station), and maybe the X64 Glasgow - Old Kilpatrick Gavinburn Place via Clydeside Expressway.

You're thinking of the X62 which was superseded by the 205 and now the 1 group of routes.

KCB moved into Knightswood depot when Gavinburn closed in 1996 and took on the D prefix routes in Vale of Leven and the 118 and 119. A year later a new depot opened in Dumbarton leaving just the 118 and 119 at KW.

Not long before the KCB depot on Birdston Road, Kirkintilloch closed and everything was moved to Possilpark.

 

[SamGFields]

One thing I've always wondered is how busy is it between Wishaw and Overtown during the day? The furthest I've ever used it is to Wishaw so don't know if it's well used beyond that or is it a case of the depot being so handy to turn at that they won't ever cut that section of the route?

You could get pulled in at every bus stop down through Gowkthrapple if the 242(?) from Larkhall was late, and if you timed it wrong you could get humped with all the school kids at kicking out time. This was when the 240 started turning at Waterloo roundabout, so the trick was to sit on the main rd until you saw a 242 go through then trundle along behind it 2 mins later.

One recent thing I've noticed is Overton now have a few backshifts start at Overton on the 240 rather than having to get down to Motherwell to start your shift.

 

[PaulMc7]

You could get pulled in at every bus stop down through Gowkthrapple if the 242(?) from Larkhall was late, and if you timed it wrong you could get humped with all the school kids at kicking out time. This was when the 240 started turning at Waterloo r/about, so the trick was to sit on the main rd until you saw a 242 go through then trundle along behind it 2 mins later.

One recent thing ive noticed is Overton now have a few backshifts start at Overton on the 240 rather than having to get down to M/Well to start your shift.

I'm glad you mentioned that last point of your post as that was my next question. It never really made sense to me that Overtown based drivers changed at Motherwell. I remember overhearing a driver mentioning it while talking to other drivers and I was so confused by it. I think if a service goes by or terminates next to a depot, the changeover should happen there and that's also why I'm not a fan of splitting services between 2 depots.

 

[SamGFields]

I'm glad you mentioned that last point of your post as that was my next question. It never really made sense to me that Overtown based drivers changed at Motherwell. I remember overhearing a driver mentioning it while talking to other drivers and I was so confused by it. I think if a service goes by or terminates next to a depot, the changeover should happen there and that's also why I'm not a fan of splitting services between 2 depots.

At one point, (might still happen I dont know) drivers who were on earlies and finished in Motherwell left their car keys and a backshift driver who started there would drive their car down! But you couldn't guarantee there'd be a car there to drive down so still had to rock up with enough time to get the bus to Motherwell.

 

[PaulMc7]

At one point, (might still happen i dont know) drivers who were on earlies and finished in m/well left their car keys and a backshift driver who started in m/well would drive their car down! But you couldnt guarantee there'd be a car there to drive down so still had to rock up with enough time to get the bus to m/well.

That sounds good that drivers trusted each other enough to do that but it is also far more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[SamGFields]

That sounds good that drivers trusted each other enough to do that but it is also far more complicated than it needs to be.

I agree, but i think at one stage there was only the 242 that went past the depot?

The most galling thing though was the union negotiating away paid travel time, you got paid from when you signed on at Motherwell bothy, the fact it could take an hour to get there if you needed to leave your car at Overtown became tough luck.

 

[PaulMc7]

I agree, but i think at one stage there was only the 242 that went past the depot?

The most galling thing though was the union negotiating away paid travel time, you got paid from when you signed on at m/well bothy, the fact it could take an hour to get there if you needed to leave your car at overton became tough luck.

I'm not as familiar with Lanarkshire services until the last 4-5 years to be honest but I think you are right about the 242 before that as the 240 has gone to a few different places over the years.

That sounds awful for a union to do that to be honest. For me, drivers should be paid for any time checking their bus before it leaves the depot, split shifts need to be gone for good and travel time to changeover points absolutely needs to be paid for.

I'd imagine if those happen then just maybe fixing the driver shortages becomes slightly easier across the network. I also think the Lanarkshire and Dumbarton based drivers should be on £13 an hour too to match the Glasgow ones.

Driver shortages affect Overtown and Dumbarton far less than the other 3 depots but if management and conditions including wages are improved more and more then it helps potential growth opportunities for services as you can keep hiring instead of stopping when the current timetables are covered.

 

[SamGFields]

I'm not as familiar with Lanarkshire services until the last 4-5 years to be honest but I think you are right about the 242 before that as the 240 has gone to a few different places over the years.

That sounds awful for a union to do that to be honest. For me, drivers should be paid for any time checking their bus before it leaves the depot, split shifts need to be gone for good and travel time to changeover points absolutely needs to be paid for.

I'd imagine if those happen then just maybe fixing the driver shortages becomes slightly easier across the network. I also think the Lanarkshire and Dumbarton based drivers should be on £13 an hour too to match the Glasgow ones.

Driver shortages affect Overtown and Dumbarton far less than the other 3 depots but if management and conditions including wages are improved more and more then it helps potential growth opportunities for services.

Re the union. They got us a quid an hour raise but at the expense of paid travel time, in my eyes though a competent union would have got us both.
There was at least one duty, either Overtown or Blantyre I cannae mind where you got off the bus in Motherwell for your break and took over your next duty at Hamilton, having to use part of your break to get there.

*This is all a long time ago, in fact i was told this week its 13 years since Overtown opened, which made me feel very old so i may not be totally accurate as memory isn't what it was.

**Hi Mod who's correcting my abbreviations. Ive got it, willnae happen again.

 

[adrock1976]

The 240 was a Central SMT then Kelvin Central route before the First takeover.



You're thinking of the X62 which was superseded by the 205 and now the 1 group of routes.

KCB moved into Knightswood depot when Gavinburn closed in 1996 and took on the D prefix routes in Vale of Leven and the 118 and 119. A year later a new depot opened in Dumbarton leaving just the 118 and 119 at KW.

Not long before the KCB depot on Birdston Road, Kirkintilloch closed and everything was moved to Possilpark.

Many thanks for the historical insight.

 

[PaulMc7]

I do find it very interesting that most of the complaints I've seen online since the service changes got revealed to the public are about the 189/190 being handed back. I've seen one or two about the 64 but nothing much else to be honest which is a surprise given what people are normally like.

I do find it worrying though how people don't realise the 189/190 are SPT tenders. This is why I say listening to the public is a must but there is also a need to help the public understand more when it comes to things like that. One very genuine complaint is the lack of tracking on the app just now though for a lot of services. It only seems to get worse day by day at the minute.

I'm also hoping these changes bring us closer to zero cancellations finally being possible. How many driver requirements are cut with these changes? It'll be interesting to see what the Lanarkshire cuts involve too given that there isn't actually that many services involved outside of the SPT cuts.

 

[Chris Hamilton]

That was the 240 wasn't it, when First were trying to bully McKindless/JMB off the road? They initially tried taking the 240 to Lanark, with weekly tickets at a discounted 8 quid (Going back a while). When that didn't work they cut out Lanark to serve Wilton Rd instead. The wee bit you've seen is how they turned.

You say “bullied”, but let’s not forget that when McKindless had their “tax issues”, First were the only company serving Carluke with a regular local service. They also only extended to Lanark at the request of SPT when McKindless went belly up, and when JMB came back to cherry pick the route, First pulled back to their original terminus of Wilton Road.

First also served Carluke further into the evening than McKindless who for years cherry picked the lucrative daytime passengers.

Wilton Road has been a terminus for the 24x range of services since time immemorial and the days of Central. It was only when McKindless drove First out of Carluke by cherry picking lucrative routes (and the loss of Law Hospital traffic) that the terminal of the 240 was altered to Coltness. When Coltness and Cleland was altered to be served by the 241, First rerouted the 240 to serve Pather/Carluke alternating.

JMB still treat Carluke/Lanark as a daytime cash cow. Cutting the town off before 8pm (which I cited in my response to ScotRails consultation about cutting Lanark services in the evening).

 

[PaulMc7]

I definitely don't miss Mckindless. I used the 62 a few times and it was more like being on a rollercoaster than a bus.

A lot of these companies generally fail because they try to mimic First directly with the routes that they choose to run. A lot of people moan about First (I certainly do too about certain things) but we could honestly have much worse in my opinion. I also don't think the council or government running the buses here helps either. It might help with single pricing but a lot of people don't realise First's network direct debit is only £4 more expensive than Lothian's basic direct debit on their Ridacard system. In the current climate with costs constantly rising, a lot of things are expensive but First's prices aren't that bad.


On another note, there are some horrendous bunches of cancellations this evening. There are currently 6 75s in a row cancelled from Milton and at Springburn there is a bunch of 5 57/57As in a row all cancelled too towards Auchinairn and Balornock East.

There still seems to be a trend that Monday to Thursday isn't too awful for cancellations but Friday and Saturday are still really bad although bunches of cancellations like the ones I've noticed this evening had been few and far between compared to a couple of months back. I will give them credit at Caledonia for actually bothering to enter the cancellations into the system though as the rest of the depots don't seem to do it at all now.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

This morning, 3 ticket inspectors on the Paisley Road West just got on the 9A and checked tickets, and caught 1 person using the wrong ticket.

 

[Brimfulofasha]

Completely underestimated the time the 90 would take to get from Parkhead (1511) to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital (1633) earlier (82 minutes; another caught us up), I'd also assumed it would enter the bus stance area. It didn't (every other bus does!) so I had to walk back right round the hospital, missing my visiting slot.

I then decided to get the 77 to Braehead and back to kill an hour, but it took nearly 2 with buses failing to turn up in both directions (I'd have been quicker walking!). There were plenty of 16s and 34s, even a few 9s, while the electronic bus stop displays constantly promised 77s. The crowd at Braehead were getting angry as each bus that did appear promptly went out of service, especially with so many McGill's buses coming and going, those who could diverted to them. Also, the Ukrainian cruise ship shuttle bus!

I assume that it was due to the roadworks and temporary traffic lights all the way along Dumbarton Road in Partick causing horrendous delays. It's busy at at the best of times, so to add in those was fatal. Even on my return journey about 2000, after getting the 8 to Byres Road, I then walked all the way into town, the 77 and the 2 (which were showing on the app in Partick) never caught me up!

I can see why, despite First's online advertising campaign, they are struggling to win over car drivers.

And I ended the saga with the trusty old 240!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Does anyone know if the last of the E400EVs have been delivered yet?

 

[PaulMc7]

Completely underestimated the time the 90 would take to get from Parkhead (1511) to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital (1633) earlier (82 minutes; another caught us up), missing my visiting slot. I then decided to get the 77 to Braehead and back to kill an hour, but it took nearly 2 hours with buses failing to turn up in both directions (I'd have been quicker walking!) The crowd at Braehead were getting angry as each bus that did appear promptly went out of service, especially with so many McGill's buses coming and going.

I assume that it was due to the roadworks and temporary traffic lights all the way along Dumbarton Road in Partick causing horrendous delays. It's busy at at the best of times, so to add in those was fatal. Even on my return journey about 2000, after getting the 8 to Byres Road, I then walked all the way into town, the 77 and the 2 (which were showing on the app in Partick) never caught me up! And ended my travels with the trusty old 240!

When the roadworks started, there was a day I got an 8 across from Partick Library and it was on time and by the time it got by Maryhill Tesco it was 25 minutes late. This wasn't even at a busy time either so it shows how bad they are. Over the past 12-15 months, there has been so many sets of roadworks along that one stretch of road and it makes me glad I left my job when I did because I kept getting caught in them going to work.

The 77 is usually horrendous at peak time just because of the Clyde Tunnel on a normal basis so I'd not be shocked if they were a full journey late with the roadworks on top of that. When I looked at the app earlier, there was 4 of them due within 5 minutes at the stop before they enter the Queen Elizabeth Hospital towards Braehead.

It's interesting on the subject of the likes of the 77 etc, that Scotstoun have randomly started to actually input cancellations onto the app again yesterday and today after about a month of just not doing any whatsoever. It's good that it's happened but it's strange how it just stopped and started.

 

[GaryBrown156]

Does anyone know why the reliability of the 19 has been so horrendous over the past 6 weeks or so?. I use this service to commute to and from the town three times a week (heading in about 6pm, and catching the last Easterhouse bound bus from West George Street at 23.23). During this period the City Centre bound bus has failed to make an appearance on 3 occasions, and the Easterhouse bound bus has failed to arrive on 5 occasions. There has also been no prior warning to these services being cancelled on either the tracker nor at the bus stop information displays, so I really don't understand what's going on here and it's getting quite frustrating as there are no alternative services which cover the Royston road section so if it doesn't show the alternatives are extremely limited. The 19 has always been a fairly busy bus whenever I've been on it, but it definitely gets the thin end of the wedge and seems more prone to cancellations than any of the other West George Street buses. I'm going for the 19 again this evening so fingers crossed it makes an appearance this time and I don't have to taxi it like I did the other night.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

When the roadworks started, there was a day I got an 8 across from Partick Library and it was on time and by the time it got by Maryhill Tesco it was 25 minutes late. This wasn't even at a busy time either so it shows how bad they are. Over the past 12-15 months, there has been so many sets of roadworks along that one stretch of road and it makes me glad I left my job when I did because I kept getting caught in them going to work.

The 77 is usually horrendous at peak time just because of the Clyde Tunnel on a normal basis so I'd not be shocked if they were a full journey late with the roadworks on top of that. When I looked at the app earlier, there was 4 of them due within 5 minutes at the stop before they enter the Queen Elizabeth Hospital towards Braehead.

There's roadworks of one form or another on that junction, mostly on Church Street, untill August.

 

[EMU303]

There's roadworks of one form or another on that junction, mostly on Church Street, untill August.

That sounds like the start of the Byres Rd revamp. Church St to be one way south and Byres Road one way north to the junction with Church St. Plus cycle lanes and a reduction in parking spaces.

Byres Road public realm work to begin in January 2023 - Glasgow City Council

The Glasgow City Region Cabinet today (8 November) approved public realm work on Byres Road, a major retail and food & drink destination in Glasgow's West End. The first phase of this work will begin in January 2023.

www.glasgow.gov.uk

More detailed layout here including confirmation that additional new traffic light junction at the junction of Dumbarton Rd/Church St.

Final Plans for Byres Road

The final plans for the Byres Road public realm improvements have been released! We’ve come a long way since the first consultation in 2017, where we expressed our disappointment and frustration at…

space4peoplebyresroad.wordpress.com

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

That sounds like the start of the Byres Rd revamp. Church St to be one way south and Byres Road one way north to the junction with Church St. Plus cycle lanes and a reduction in parking spaces.

Byres Road public realm work to begin in January 2023 - Glasgow City Council

The Glasgow City Region Cabinet today (8 November) approved public realm work on Byres Road, a major retail and food & drink destination in Glasgow's West End. The first phase of this work will begin in January 2023.

www.glasgow.gov.uk

More detailed layout here including confirmation that additional new traffic light junction at the junction of Dumbarton Rd/Church St.

Final Plans for Byres Road

The final plans for the Byres Road public realm improvements have been released! We’ve come a long way since the first consultation in 2017, where we expressed our disappointment and frustration at…

space4peoplebyresroad.wordpress.com

A no through road to traffic as well? Minus Buses?

 

[EMU303]

A no through road to traffic as well? Minus Buses?

My understanding is when completed the road will remain open to all traffic end to end.

 

[PaulMc7]

Does anyone know why the reliability of the 19 has been so horrendous over the past 6 weeks or so?. I use this service to commute to and from the town three times a week (heading in about 6pm, and catching the last Easterhouse bound bus from West George Street at 23.23). During this period the City Centre bound bus has failed to make an appearance on 3 occasions, and the Easterhouse bound bus has failed to arrive on 5 occasions. There has also been no prior warning to these services being cancelled on either the tracker nor at the bus stop information displays, so I really don't understand what's going on here and it's getting quite frustrating as there are no alternative services which cover the Royston road section so if it doesn't show the alternatives are extremely limited. The 19 has always been a fairly busy bus whenever I've been on it, but it definitely gets the thin end of the wedge and seems more prone to cancellations than any of the other West George Street buses. I'm going for the 19 again this evening so fingers crossed it makes an appearance this time and I don't have to taxi it like I did the other night.

The buses in the evening in general seem to take an absolute nosedive when it comes to reliability. A lot of them aren't that busy from what I've seen so I guess that's why. The night buses shouldn't have come back either as they take too many drivers away from services on Fridays and Saturdays. I think next weekend is just the start of buses being every 40 minutes in the evening.

I can see a situation where most evening services are every 40 minutes or hourly. The likes of the 4/4A and 38B/38C can end up with 2/3 hour gaps because of cancellations and it really doesn't help that most of them don't end up on the app so people are left guessing. I think evening cuts will also be used as a tactic to try and keep drivers by requiring less in what is deemed as less desirable shifts.

 

[route101]

I would think evening, last and first buses in the morning should be the services prioritised to run.

The 4A to Eaglesham is hourly, was that half hourly before?

 

[PaulMc7]

I would think evening, last and first buses in the morning should be the services prioritised to run.

The 4A to Eaglesham is hourly, was that half hourly before?

Before Covid, it was half hourly with the 4 every half hour too. The morning peak seems to be okay but the evening service of the 4/4A is as bad as ever. Last week, I noticed a night where 2 4s and 2 4As were cancelled in a row.