First Group: General Discussion

[Volvodart]

First Leicester are getting 68 electric single deckers by Spring 2024.

https://news.leicester.gov.uk/news-...100-within-three-years-thanks-to-new-funding/

The programme will see 68 new single decker electric buses operated by First Bus.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

First Leicester are getting 68 electric single deckers by Spring 2024.

Wonder if Worcester might get their Streetlites back at that time!!!

 

[Robertj21a]

Wonder if Worcester might get their Streetlites back at that time!!!

I don't know of many operators that would be getting too excited about even more Streetlites!

 

[carlberry]

Wonder if Worcester might get their Streetlites back at that time!!!

They might send them to Slough then Slough can offload some more stuff to Worcester!

 

[Ancelljb]

They might send them to Slough then Slough can offload some more stuff to Worcester!

Slough's fleet is now all euro 6 (I believe), which it wasn't before the citaros were sent to Worcester. Therefore, I doubt there are any plans for the fleet there to get an upgrade at the moment.

More likely the Streetlites would head to Worcester to replace some of their older Citaros or Potteries to replace the OmniCitys.

 

[dlp_888]

The remaining Streetlites are due for Solent, aren't they? I read somewhere that they're expecting some (20?) by the Spring to upgrade the Eclipse network, releasing E200MMCs for use elsewhere.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The remaining Streetlites are due for Solent, aren't they? I read somewhere that they're expecting some (20?) by the Spring to upgrade the Eclipse network, releasing E200MMCs for use elsewhere.

Oh dear. That does make sense in that the Eclipse routes have an indicative 5 year age limit and the fleet has already hit that. However, the Eclipse is supposed to be a high spec product. The B7RLEs and current fleet meet that aspiration (to an extent), and whilst I'm not as vociferous about the shortcomings of the Streetlite, it's not what you'd want for those routes.

 

[buslad1988]

I don't know of many operators that would be getting too excited about even more Streetlites!

Anyone know why if Streetlites are that troublesome why First has returned to buying them in bulk again?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Anyone know why if Streetlites are that troublesome why First has returned to buying them in bulk again?

Depends if there's been re-engineering on them. Also, what commercial deal has been struck both in terms of purchase AND ongoing warranties.

Also, not certain how troublesome they've been. The Streetdecks have had problems in South Yorkshire and Somerset from being asked to flog along on intense, inter-urban routes but uncertain how many major failures the Streetlites have had.

 

[Robertj21a]

Anyone know why if Streetlites are that troublesome why First has returned to buying them in bulk again?

Not sure anybody has said they are troublesome ?
The Accountants may well love them, quite possibly the operators, and passengers, are less enthusiastic.

 

[tbtc]

I get a lot of Streetlites on my local route (South Yorkshire) - my regular seat has become the one by the emergency exit door, because if I sit there then I can hold my elbow in place against the rattling bit of metal that is meant to hold the emergency door in place but the vibrations of the bus mean that it makes a horrible din - I'd rather sit there and stop it rattling than sit elsewhere on the bus and be driven daft by the vibrating metal even if I sit some distance away... horribly cheap buses... please no more round these parts

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I get a lot of Streetlites on my local route (South Yorkshire) - my regular seat has become the one by the emergency exit door, because if I sit there then I can hold my elbow in place against the rattling bit of metal that is meant to hold the emergency door in place but the vibrations of the bus mean that it makes a horrible din - I'd rather sit there and stop it rattling than sit elsewhere on the bus and be driven daft by the vibrating metal even if I sit some distance away... horribly cheap buses... please no more round these parts

To be honest, that is one of the most infuriating issues with them but I don't know if they're more unreliable. TBH, I didn't think there was much difference between the Streetlite and the e200. However, there is no comparison between a Streetlite and MMCs

 

[Robertj21a]

I get a lot of Streetlites on my local route (South Yorkshire) - my regular seat has become the one by the emergency exit door, because if I sit there then I can hold my elbow in place against the rattling bit of metal that is meant to hold the emergency door in place but the vibrations of the bus mean that it makes a horrible din - I'd rather sit there and stop it rattling than sit elsewhere on the bus and be driven daft by the vibrating metal even if I sit some distance away... horribly cheap buses... please no more round these parts

Agreed. This is highly annoying on most Streetlites I've used. Incredible that it's never been sorted out.

 

[tbtc]

To be honest, that is one of the most infuriating issues with them but I don't know if they're more unreliable. TBH, I didn't think there was much difference between the Streetlite and the e200. However, there is no comparison between a Streetlite and MMCs

They seem reasonably reliable, but very rattly inside - the priorities seemed to be mainly about fuel efficiency with the passenger "ride" very distant (compared to a B7RLE, say, which felt much more like a proper bus rather than bouncing along in a milk float)

Sad but understandable that bus companies are more focussed on saving money by lower fuel bills than giving passengers a decent ride

Agreed. This is highly annoying on most Streetlites I've used. Incredible that it's never been sorted out.

Such a frustratingly "small" thing, in the grand scheme of things, if you are paying a six figure sum for a vehicle, but I guess that the bus company doesn't realise/focus on this aspect, as it's not something that particularly affects bus staff (the driver won't be able to hear it, from their seat at the front, the engineers etc won't worry about it) - but it makes the ride for passengers annoying and makes the vehicles seem like even a fairly smooth road surface is like off-road rally car driving!

 

[cactustwirly]

To be honest, that is one of the most infuriating issues with them but I don't know if they're more unreliable. TBH, I didn't think there was much difference between the Streetlite and the e200. However, there is no comparison between a Streetlite and MMCs

Haven't been on a streetlite, but the MMCs seem like e200s with an updated exterior.
All modern UK buses are poor, unless you are lucky enough to get a big Volvo or Citaro

 

[CBlue]

Haven't been on a streetlite, but the MMCs seem like e200s with an updated exterior.
All modern UK buses are poor, unless you are lucky enough to get a big Volvo or Citaro

Not sure where you're coming from with the sweeping statement? I find such things are far more subjective than that.

E400MMCs in my experience are pretty well screwed together with very few rattles, the local ones are still good after six years of being thumped over tons of potholes on intensive city work. They ride a lot better than the older E400s too.
Meanwhile there are some local Volvo/Eclipses that despite working from the same depot and being a year older rattle like anything and genuinely feel like they're falling apart.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have found the more recent ADL builds are starting to go back to their old slovenly ways of throwing them together and praying. If the build quality from wright has stepped up a few notches then a new streetlite could be ok. I suspect that first group are reserving judgement on them m2c what a mass order of the newer product is like. It won't take much to ruin bamford and kodos reputation so if they take delivery of a three figure amount of these things and they are **** then idsa the manufacturer and all those thinking of buying from said manufacturer will know about it

 

[GusB]

We've strayed away from this being a discussion about First Group matters and into a general vehicle discussion. Back on topic, please.

 

[Volvodart]

Arrival, the new electric bus manufacturer reported financial results today with mention of First Bus orders should the bids prove successful. These appear to be for:-

Leicester - 68 (funding already confirmed)
York - 44
Norfolk - 15
Hampshire - 34
West Yorkshire - 32

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...ter-and-Full-Year-2021-Financial-Results.html

Public road trials with First Bus expected to start in Q1 2022. First Bus has worked together with Local Authorities in England to submit government backed funding applications which would potentially see up to 193 of Arrival’s new electric Buses be incorporated into their fleet following completion of successful trials

____________________________________

26 March 2022 update - the winners have been announced by area and it would appear that all of the above were successful.

 

[90sWereBetter]

That's interesting, as First do not normally reuse fleet numbers. 39717 was originally SMK 717F (RML2717) AEC Routemaster, which was sold and exported to Thailand and 39724 (RML2724) AEC Routemaster which was sold for preservation.

Surely at some point in the next 20 years First's fleet numbering system will run out of numbers and they'll be forced to reuse old number (particularly the old blocks at the start of each range, a legacy of the haphazard renumbering in 2002/03).

 

[Jordan Adam]

Surely at some point in the next 20 years First's fleet numbering system will run out of numbers and they'll be forced to reuse old number (particularly the old blocks at the start of each range, a legacy of the haphazard renumbering in 2002/03).

If i'm not mistaken a limited amount of numbers have already been reused in recent years? Albeit admittedly now that the topic has come up i can't remember exactly what ones those are!

 

[Andyh82]

Surely at some point in the next 20 years First's fleet numbering system will run out of numbers and they'll be forced to reuse old number (particularly the old blocks at the start of each range, a legacy of the haphazard renumbering in 2002/03).

They’ve got all of 70000/80000 to use first before they run out

 

[Kernow Dave]

If i'm not mistaken a limited amount of numbers have already been reused in recent years? Albeit admittedly now that the topic has come up i can't remember exactly what ones those are!

The only ones that I can recall are:-

20151 99-D-74497 Volvo B10M-62 Jonckheere Mistral
20151 R91 HUS Volvo B10M-62 Plaxton Premiere
20152 99-D-74498 Volvo B10M-62 Jonckheere Mistral
20152 R92 HUS Volvo B10M-62 Plaxton Premiere

But there may have been others

 

[Volvodart]

From the latest First Fleet Changes http://wmbusphotos.com/Fleetchanges/First.html First are acquiring a number of Enviro 200s, presumably to see off the remaining Darts. There are also some Enviro400s which will presumably see off the older Bright Bus Tours open tops.

 

[vla50]

From the latest First Fleet Changes http://wmbusphotos.com/Fleetchanges/First.html First are acquiring a number of Enviro 200s, presumably to see off the remaining Darts. There are also some Enviro400s which will presumably see off the older Bright Bus Tours open tops.

I do wonder whether Scotland East wish to get rid of the elderly OTs but then it does have to be considered they have had a lot of engine work done (ie upgrading it)

 

[Volvodart]

Not all of them, probably only the 2 remaining ex Lothian ones. They are unlikely to have Euro6 emissions anyway.

 

[vla50]

Not all of them, probably only the 2 remaining ex Lothian ones. They are unlikely to have Euro6 emissions anyway.

There’s only 6 E400s that have been ordered though so I imagine at a guess maybe the DAFs & 32789/790 will depart? I believe at least 1 of the newer ACZ examples is Euro 6 so I imagine that would most likely be kept.

Perhaps they might even go down the Cornwall route & use 1 of the more aged open tops as perhaps a sales office, all speculation on my part though!

 

[Volvodart]

Not all the older buses are being used.

 

[NoOnesFool]

Anyone know why if Streetlites are that troublesome why First has returned to buying them in bulk again?

As a passenger, I find Streetlites great buses. They are comfortable, have a pleasant interior and offer a powerful ride up hills. First have a longstanding customer service relationship with Wrightbus and the Streetlites have become First's flagship buses, in the same way the Eclipses were 10-15 years ago. As an enthusiast, they also offer character, which other modern buses such as the Enviro400s don't have in my opinion. I would welcome more Streetlites to our streets (pun intended!).

 

[stevenedin]

I know what you mean when they say that they offer character and I have become fond of them recently but I’m not sure I agree on the comfort side but they are ok.