First Midland Bluebird

[d1672]

First are selling the Borders services and Galashiels to West Coast Motors.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I assume it will traid under the Perrymans name?

Prediction: X95 will now split at Gala with the supposidly loss making stretch to Edinburgh run with a smaller bus.

 

[overthewater]

There is notices up at the depots.

 

[overthewater]

If you can understand the changes being planned, then your understand why I can claim there are other changes being planned for the West Lothian area.

 

[Scotrail88]

Rumour has it that might be more sell off - Livi on the cards again??

 

[overthewater]

Rumour has it that might be more sell off - Livi on the cards again??

No, I'm going to say no, how weird is that? It would go against everything First has done in the area over the past year, including new buses, revising routes getting the transport minster to show off stuff, changing tickets.

Also why would First waste its time extending the 29 to broxburn?

 

[Scotrail88]

Must be more cutting back due - nothing has been done since increase in rail at Bathgate. Anytime I've travelled through there are large numbers using the train ( which is now 4 instead of 2 per hour and electrified)
Must have hurt 27,28,etc - found it strange getting new buses or a last throw of the dice?

 

[DunsBus]

My understanding is that a number of vehicles will transfer from First to West Coast Motors, along with the Galsshiels depot and its outstations. The exact number of vehicles is yet to be decided.

All staff will also transfer over under TUPE, if they so wish.

Both of the Perryman's O-licences will be renamed to Borders Buses Ltd. Perryman's is to be retained as a trading name in the meantime.

 

[overthewater]

Must be more cutting back due - nothing has been done since increase in rail at Bathgate. Anytime I've travelled through there are large numbers using the train ( which is now 4 instead of 2 per hour and electrified)
Must have hurt 27,28,etc - found it strange getting new buses or a last throw of the dice?

Because West Lothian has a large number of new housing developments in the pipe line, ( it will see 15'000 more people, over the next years alone and it want stop) add in Shopping area and all those employment areas means there plenty of chance for passengers; Ie not traveling into Edinburgh.

 

[DunsBus]

No, I'm going to say no, how weird is that? It would go against everything First has done in the area over the past year, including new buses, revising routes getting the transport minster to show off stuff, changing tickets.

Also why would First waste its time extending the 29 to broxburn?

Yes, but First also invested heavily in the Borders in recent years with a mix of new and cascaded vehicles. It still didn't stop the Borders operations from being sold off.

If West Lothian doesn't make money - regardless of any recent investment - then it will be next for the chop.

 

[overthewater]

From what I'm lead to believe Livi does make money.

To be fair the borders was a good money spinner over the years but the new train service has killed off alot of trade, First had to slash its fares and prices, the X95 now take around 90 mins instead of an hour to get into Edinburgh overall its become alot tougher over the past couple of years.

Edit: Livingston as even newer fleet then Gala, only a few years old, with not the many buses older then 64 plate.

 

[Volvodart]

Rumour has it that might be more sell off - Livi on the cards again??

Last time the rumour was Balfron and Bannockburn, so I guess it is their turn now.

 

[oldman]

The difference about the Borders is that there was a small but ambitious buyer in the area. Are there any for the rest of FSE?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The difference about the Borders is that there was a small but ambitious buyer in the area. Are there any for the rest of FSE?

Very true. It's a flawed concept to say that if A happens, then it can be extrapolated to B.

In this instance, you have the Borders which is an area of relatively low population density and few strong performing routes. The best routes have traditionally been the 62 and 95 with a mix of mediocre local routes in Hawick and Gala (and Hawick to Kelso) plus a raft of supported services.

It probably can only sustain one major operator who can spread the overhead effectively and that has been exacerbated by the impact of the train on the 95. In that case, consolidation probably makes sense, sad as that is.

 

[smtglasgow]

I agree. I think West Coast Motors are probably as good as it gets for the Borders. Their networks in Argyll & Bute (mostly subsidised) are well run and there has been steady investment in the fleet. They don’t seem to have mucked around with Perryman’s since purchasing, so presumably there is still plenty local expertise. Having said that, the First fleet in the Borders was well-maintained and, for a mainly rural area, very modern. Hopefully West Coast can salvage something from the northern half of the X95, but as far as I know the southern section does well – at least as far as Hawick. It will be interesting to see how WCM run the X62 – I assume the deckers are needed for the Edinburgh peak and the Peebles schools – so perhaps they’ll want to keep the existing Geminis or invest in something new. Peebles is an affluent place – half commuters, half pensioners – so a Gold-style operation would work well. In addition, one of Lothian’s rare mis-steps has been their constant tinkering with the Peniculk services – pretty sure that an upgraded X62 could steal some business here.

 

[kylemore]

As far as West Lothian is concerned the rot set in when the Edinburgh services went over from crew to OPO in the early 80s.

Huge increases in journey times particularly on Monday mornings when drivers had to issue complicated weeklies/10 journeys with antiquated manual ticket machines led to a drastic reduction in pax who found other means of commuting and that was even before the Bathgate Railway put the tin lid on it!

Then came the privatisation of Eastern Scottish - a management buyout delivered the company into the hands of a bunch of incompetents (long liquid lunches at the Carlton Highland became the order of the day for the New Street crowd).

LRT backed to the hilt by Lothian Region and then Edinburgh Council gradually eroded Eastern's Midlothian goldmine while Eastern (now SMT) poured money down the drain into a loss making Citysprinter and City network.

Then there was the disastrous and unrequired move from New St which caused an explosion in light mileage - admittedly the mastermind behind that one did get the sack but the damage was done.

Eventually they were rescued by GRT/First - indeed in the last few weeks before they were taken over the money to pay SMT's diesel bill came from Aberdeen!

 

[Robertj21a]

Eventually they were rescued by GRT/First - indeed in the last few weeks before they were taken over the money to pay SMT's diesel bill came from Aberdeen!

Seems really odd to see '....rescued by GRT/First.....' - quite a rare event I guess.

:roll:

 

[GusB]

Then there was the disastrous and unrequired move from New St which caused an explosion in light mileage - admittedly the mastermind behind that one did get the sack but the damage was done.

Wasn't the New St site excluded from the original sale, which would have meant that they'd have to move to new premises anyway? Or pay to lease it back.

 

[kylemore]

Wasn't the New St site excluded from the original sale, which would have meant that they'd have to move to new premises anyway? Or pay to lease it back.

Yes however there was no urgency or pressure to vacate - indeed it remained empty or in use as a car park for years after. They could have been there for years as long as they paid their rent.

 

[overthewater]

Was the rent higher or lower than the place over opp Haymarket train depot?

 

[GusB]

I think it's quite a sad story really. I spent quite a lot of time visiting Edinburgh in the 90s and I remember the Diamond routes being introduced, so there was some attempt to update the fleet, but the rest of it always seemed to be a bit shabby and down-at-heel. Lothian were still running plenty of Atlanteans at the time, so it was nothing to do with vehicle age.

When I moved there in 2001, it was just very confusing. At that point (going from memory here, so correct me if I'm wrong) I think the former SMT "First Edinburgh" operations had just been split between the Lowland and Midland Bluebird companies. There was a plethora of liveries along with the associated fleetnames from the various eras: GRT cream with blue, GRT cream with green, First cream with yellow, blue and green bands (what were they thinking?!), plus the then new "Barbie". They didn't seem to make any effort to have a consistent "brand", nor any strategy.

 

[overthewater]

By 1998 it was a complete mess, because the company had been rebranded as First Edinburgh:

This was the livery:
https://flic.kr/p/fFDp9V
https://flic.kr/p/dEqM1P

then first introduced the new livery so you had everything getting rebraded then rebrand again.

By late 2000 there was a very bitter bus war between First and Edinburgh, where first give up on some of its better route believing the grass was better elsewhere, it wasn't and First never able to recover. Depots were shut, travel shops closed etc. Then in 2004 the controls were put on the company so it had to operate bad routes no matter if there were no demands. The writing was on the wall at that point about old Eastern Scottish operations

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Was the rent higher or lower than the place over opp Haymarket train depot?

If you're talking about the Westfield depot, it would've been considerably cheaper in terms of rates and utilities, being largely open air. It was also smaller as I think (happy to be corrected) more was put through Dalkeith, meaning the bus station there was closed in favour of additional parking.

 

[overthewater]

Yes the Westfield site. Mind you head office was also moved to Dalkieth. By 2002 I think that lost that states andLarbart become the head office for the whole empire.

 

[kylemore]

If you're talking about the Westfield depot, it would've been considerably cheaper in terms of rates and utilities, being largely open air. It was also smaller as I think (happy to be corrected) more was put through Dalkeith, meaning the bus station there was closed in favour of additional parking.

The cost of light mileage far outweighed any cost savings.

 

[overthewater]

The media has picked up on the story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-39204467

Bus operator First Group is to sell its operations in Midlothian and the Borders saying the new railway has made services "increasingly unsustainable".
The deal in principle is expected to be concluded on 25 March.
It would see its Galashiels depot, Peebles, Hawick and Kelso outstations and all staff transfer to West Coast Motors.
First Scotland East managing director Paul McGowan said they would fully support the workers affected.
"Despite the focus on services and the hard work of everyone across our business, unfortunately the introduction of the Borders Railway in 2015 has impacted demand for bus travel and our services are becoming increasingly unsustainable," he said.
"I'm pleased we have an agreement in principle to sell the operations to West Coast Motors, a reliable and well-established transport company.
"I'm confident their experience operating in rural areas will be of great benefit to the business."

Other places saying the same:
http://www.itv.com/news/border/2017-03-08/borders-bus-service-sells-up-as-railway-impacts-demand/
http://www.bordertelegraph.com/news/15140955.Bus_firm_First_set_to_withdraw_from_Scottish_Borders/


The following MSP are thick and just plain stupid...

Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire MSP John Lamont said the announcement was "hugely concerning news, which puts the whole transport system in the Borders at risk".
He said the impact on jobs and existing routes was "unclear".
"While I understand there will be no immediate changes, it will be open to the new operator to reduce services after a relatively short time," he said.
"This would be a huge blow to many people who rely on bus routes."
Fellow MSP Christine Grahame who represents Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale said she was seeking urgent talks with the new owners.
"The absolute priority must be maintaining continuity of service for all the communities First currently serves and the 113 local jobs it provides," she said.
"I will be monitoring this situation very carefully indeed as it develops."

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The cost of light mileage far outweighed any cost savings.

On that, I can't comment.

 

[GusB]

By 1998 it was a complete mess, because the company had been rebranded as First Edinburgh:

This was the livery:
https://flic.kr/p/fFDp9V
https://flic.kr/p/dEqM1P

then first introduced the new livery so you had everything getting rebraded then rebrand again.

By late 2000 there was a very bitter bus war between First and Edinburgh, where first give up on some of its better route believing the grass was better elsewhere, it wasn't and First never able to recover. Depots were shut, travel shops closed etc. Then in 2004 the controls were put on the company so it had to operate bad routes no matter if there were no demands. The writing was on the wall at that point about old Eastern Scottish operations

Yes! That's the livery I was referring to. It didn't make sense to me at the time, but someone later pointed out that the colours represented the former Lowland, Midland and Eastern colours (duh!).

It was August 2001 when I moved there. My commute was Liberton - Leith, so it was generally Lothian 31 to North Bridge then the 22 down to Leith. The FirstDay ticket was actually slightly cheaper than Lothian's at that point, but what prevented me using their services was less frequent buses and very often no timetable at my local stop. So yes, I would agree that the writing was probably on the wall back then.

Whatever happened to the FifeFirst venture? If I was passing through Dunfermline I used to see allover red buses with that name on the side, but it didn't seem to last long.

 

[overthewater]

Whatever happened to the FifeFirst venture? If I was passing through Dunfermline I used to see allover red buses with that name on the side, but it didn't seem to last long.

That got killed off around July 2000. First claimed it was moving the low floor stock to Midland bluebird. It was more like Stagecoach had cut back in Glasgow and the dust and settle down from the Competition commission, I believe Stagecoach and First had near monopolies. It would take another 5 years until First pulled out of Ayrshire?

 

[robertclark125]

Another thing that affected the Fifefirst venture was timetable reliability on the Edinburgh journeys. The timetabling of the journeys was very tight, even in peak periods, leading to gaps in service. Worse still, in autumn 1999 Stagecoach brought in new MAN 18.220s to the 19, which nullified the low floor selling point of Fifefirst.

Add to that also the vehicles were increasingly down at heel (I recall seeing one in early 2000 with lots of graffiti on it) and it was no surprise the service ended.

There is actually a funny ending to this though. Just after the announcement that the service was going to end, a woman contacted the Dunfermline press newspaper, telling them she had launched a petition, urging First to keep the service going. She got quite a few signatures, and said she was sending the petition to the then managing director of Lowland Scottish, who operated Fifefirst. Only one problem, which the MD of Stagecoach Fife said in the press, no doubt with a grin on his face; the MD of Lowland had been sacked, and that was because FifeFirst was a failure from the outset.