First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[Theproinsider]

Anybody would think McGills is the second coming. If it's the same management team, I think they'll have more issues to worry about than paint.

They have to find drivers. That's a hard task for any operator these days. Dundee has hardly been a glowing success, with frequent cancellations. Anybody who thinks beating the union is a good thing, just be grateful for the terms and conditions you have, as these were all won through union negotiations.

People claiming that they own certain combinations of colours, and have a trademark for it, then present your evidence. Anybody under 35 will never have heard of Eastern Scottish. It's somebody's wet dream from the past. It's going to take more than a few grey tops, who remember some imaginary glory days, to make money.

People relishing some kind of bus war are imagining that it's a honey pot of cash waiting to be discovered. If I were McGills, I'd be concentrating on rescuing Fallirk, Stirling and Balfron.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Anybody would think McGills is the second coming. If it's the same management team, I think they'll have more issues to worry about than paint.

They have to find drivers. That's a hard task for any operator these days. Dundee has hardly been a glowing success, with frequent cancellations. Anybody who thinks beating the union is a good thing, just be grateful for the terms and conditions you have, as these were all won through union negotiations.

People claiming that they own certain combinations of colours, and have a trademark for it, then present your evidence. Anybody under 35 will never have heard of Eastern Scottish. It's somebody's wet dream from the past. It's going to take more than a few grey tops, who remember some imaginary glory days, to make money.

People relishing some kind of bus war are imagining that it's a honey pot of cash waiting to be discovered. If I were McGills, I'd be concentrating on rescuing Fallirk, Stirling and Balfron.

Generally speaking, I think most could agree to disagree that it’s more the “design/application” of the livery above anything else that’s the barefaced issue.

Anybody would think McGills is the second coming. If it's the same management team, I think they'll have more issues to worry about than paint.

They have to find drivers. That's a hard task for any operator these days. Dundee has hardly been a glowing success, with frequent cancellations. Anybody who thinks beating the union is a good thing, just be grateful for the terms and conditions you have, as these were all won through union negotiations.

People claiming that they own certain combinations of colours, and have a trademark for it, then present your evidence. Anybody under 35 will never have heard of Eastern Scottish. It's somebody's wet dream from the past. It's going to take more than a few grey tops, who remember some imaginary glory days, to make money.

People relishing some kind of bus war are imagining that it's a honey pot of cash waiting to be discovered. If I were McGills, I'd be concentrating on rescuing Fallirk, Stirling and Balfron.

I would add it’s became a well spoken about topic here because generally I think there is a slowly growing appetite for re-regulation of buses once again and naturally it seems that this would come with repatriating historic liveries and/or name sakes to local areas.

Public services should be publicly owned and operated for people not for private firms looking to bolster there own ideologies or to deepen there pockets.

 

[Theproinsider]

Generally speaking, I think most could agree to disagree that it’s more the “design/application” of the livery above anything else that’s the barefaced issue.


I would add it’s became a well spoken about topic here because generally I think there is a slowly growing appetite for re-regulation of buses once again and naturally it seems that this would come with repatriating historic liveries and/or name sakes to local areas.

Public services should be publicly owned and operated for people not for private firms looking to bolster there own ideologies or to deepen there pockets.

Would this be the same Eastern Scottish that regularly dropped service in the 1970s to run coach tours? Seem to remember they were publicly owned then.

SBG was hardly mother Theresa, running superannuated Fleetlines and Lodekkas, on routes that were so painfully long, you had aged years when you got off. It was plainly ripe for reconstruction. How could anybody think operating a service bus from Edinburgh to Glasgow via the deepest, darkest parts of West Lothian and Lanarkshire was a good idea, way into the 80s, plainly needed their bumps felt.

Having no connection to either company, there'll be some kind of agreement, no doubt. The Richard Hall era is well and truly dead. There seems to be a new management team in place. I don't know the new MD, but from what I've been told, she's ex Stagecoach, so will now how to compete.

The days of buses being big business are over.

 

[Edirim]

McGill's app been slowly moving over from First to McGill's fleet numbers.

Screenshots show a dark blue bus in the app on service 2 with fleet number 8941 and reg SN65 CVK and the a dark green bus in the app on service 1 with fleet number 2299 and reg SN09 FBD.

 

[overthewater]

Anybody would think McGills is the second coming. If it's the same management team, I think they'll have more issues to worry about than paint.

They have to find drivers. That's a hard task for any operator these days. Dundee has hardly been a glowing success, with frequent cancellations. Anybody who thinks beating the union is a good thing, just be grateful for the terms and conditions you have, as these were all won through union negotiations.

People claiming that they own certain combinations of colours, and have a trademark for it, then present your evidence. Anybody under 35 will never have heard of Eastern Scottish. It's somebody's wet dream from the past. It's going to take more than a few grey tops, who remember some imaginary glory days, to make money.

People relishing some kind of bus war are imagining that it's a honey pot of cash waiting to be discovered. If I were McGills, I'd be concentrating on rescuing Fallirk, Stirling and Balfron.

Of course, the management team is only as good as corporate lets them be. ( Over the last 20 years there has been many local newspaper reports how local first teams were not happy with orders from above - I would have to dig it out) I don't think anyone thinks McGills are the second coming, it's more like out of the frying pan and into the fire, but something has to give and well maybe this is the last roll of the dice? If McGills just carry on as First did its a complete waste of money.

First thing I bet will change is the dreadful and overly complicated zone tickets.

 

[Jordan Adam]

People claiming that they own certain combinations of colours, and have a trademark for it, then present your evidence.

The only such case as far as in aware is regarding the Bluebird brand owned by Nicecon Ltd, a company which Midland Bluebird Ltd and Bluebird Buses Ltd joint own, hence why both First Scotland East and Stagecoach Bluebird are able to use the Bluebird logo/identity.

This arrangement would presumably continue under McGills Scotland East since its Midland Bluebird Ltd that have shareholding in Nicecon Ltd rather than FirstGroup itself.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

If McGill's manage to hit the ground running following the takeover, I wonder if we'll see them expand to former Eastern Scottish territory like Dalkeith, Portobello, Musselburgh and North Berwick? Resurrecting the Eastern Scottish name gives me the impression they'll have big intentions in the next few years depending on driver availability.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

If McGill's manage to hit the ground running following the takeover, I wonder if we'll see them expand to former Eastern Scottish territory like Dalkeith, Portobello, Musselburgh and North Berwick? Resurrecting the Eastern Scottish name gives me the impression they'll have big intentions in the next few years depending on driver availability.

Best of luck.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

33449 - SN66WHB has been repainted into Eastern Scottish Livery.
33446 - SN66WGY (I think; its further from the camera) has been repainted into Midland Bluebird livery.
Two single deckers have also been done; one blue and one green.

Source - a photo I have been sent of the two DDs but not permitted to share.

 

[scosutsut]

33449 - SN66WHB has been repainted into Eastern Scottish Livery.
33446 - SN66WGY (I think; its further from the camera) has been repainted into Midland Bluebird livery.
Two single deckers have also been done; one blue and one green.

Source - a photo I have been sent of the two DDs but not permitted to share.

Are they Lothian Country / Skylink lookalikes like the Twitter post made it look like they would be?

 

[Theproinsider]

If McGill's manage to hit the ground running following the takeover, I wonder if we'll see them expand to former Eastern Scottish territory like Dalkeith, Portobello, Musselburgh and North Berwick? Resurrecting the Eastern Scottish name gives me the impression they'll have big intentions in the next few years depending on driver availability.

Not to mention having a location to operate from. Again, it's an enthusiasts wet dream, but not great business sense.

You seem to underestimate the amount of capital required to start, and operate, a bus company. Again, and purely conjecture on my part, I'd consolidate what I had, rather than rashly go into competition.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

33449 - SN66WHB has been repainted into Eastern Scottish Livery.
33446 - SN66WGY (I think; its further from the camera) has been repainted into Midland Bluebird livery.
Two single deckers have also been done; one blue and one green.

Source - a photo I have been sent of the two DDs but not permitted to share.

33446 is currently out on the X24 so it’s not that one. I guess the identity of that second one won’t be revealed for a bit longer.

 

[DunsBus]

Would this be the same Eastern Scottish that regularly dropped service in the 1970s to run coach tours? Seem to remember they were publicly owned then.

SBG was hardly mother Theresa, running superannuated Fleetlines and Lodekkas, on routes that were so painfully long, you had aged years when you got off. It was plainly ripe for reconstruction. How could anybody think operating a service bus from Edinburgh to Glasgow via the deepest, darkest parts of West Lothian and Lanarkshire was a good idea, way into the 80s, plainly needed their bumps felt.

Having no connection to either company, there'll be some kind of agreement, no doubt. The Richard Hall era is well and truly dead. There seems to be a new management team in place. I don't know the new MD, but from what I've been told, she's ex Stagecoach, so will now how to compete.

The days of buses being big business are over.

Stagecoach also knew when to cut their losses and run. Lothian Country has been a money pit from day one and the new Lothian MD may decide to leave West Lothian to McGill's and concentrate on the core city, Midlothian and East Lothian operations.

 

[Mal]

Stagecoach also knew when to cut their losses and run. Lothian Country has been a money pit from day one and the new Lothian MD may decide to leave West Lothian to McGill's and concentrate on the core city, Midlothian and East Lothian operations.

Could explain reluctance to repaint LCB into Green and White?

 

[scosutsut]

Lothian Country has been a money pit from day one.

Source?

 

[mb88]

Source?

He has none, of course. Wishful thinking more than anything based on fact or evidence. What is clear to see by anyone who actually spends a fair amount of time in and around West Lothian is that the Country services are busier than ever throughout the day. Whether that is translating into hard profit is another story.

 

[Bus9120UK]

33446 - SN66WGY (I think; its further from the camera) has been repainted into Midland Bluebird livery.

Perhaps it's 33436 (SN66 WGG)? Otherwise, only two I can see it being is 33443/5 (SN66 WGV/W) as the rest of them have been / are in service in the last few days. As been mentioned only time will tell.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Sorry for asking on here but where are you supposed to get live travel info from?
Google Maps says the service has departed when it hasn't turned up, First Scotland East Facebook page says it's not monitored for messages/comments so I can't ask there if the journey is cancelled, the "next bus" feature on their website returns with "page not found", I've checked the cancelled journeys page on the website and the one I'm waiting for isn't listed there, ....

 

[Jordan Adam]

Sorry for asking on here but where are you supposed to get live travel info from?
Google Maps says the service has departed when it hasn't turned up, First Scotland East Facebook page says it's not monitored for messages/comments so I can't ask there if the journey is cancelled, the "next bus" feature on their website returns with "page not found", I've checked the cancelled journeys page on the website and the one I'm waiting for isn't listed there, ....

The FirstApp shows if journeys are cancelled ahead of time. Alternatively Bustimes.org shows live vehicle tracking.

Bus tracker map – First South East and Central Scotland – bustimes.org

 

[computerSaysNo]

FirstApp shows if journeys are cancelled ahead of time

Great news for people who didn't download the app ahead of time. If they can cancel it in the app then it should be on the list on the website as well, no?
Anyway, it finishes in two days so not much point complaining I guess.

 

[GusB]

Great news for people who didn't download the app ahead of time. If they can cancel it in the app then it should be on the list on the website as well, no?
Anyway, it finishes in two days so not much point complaining I guess.

Any information about cancellations should be replicated across all channels; the fact that they're transitioning from one owner to another is no excuse for poor customer service.

 

[stevenedin]

Journey cancellations are published here https://www.firstbus.co.uk/south-east-and-central-scotland/plan-journey/journey-cancellations

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Great news for people who didn't download the app ahead of time. If they can cancel it in the app then it should be on the list on the website as well, no?
Anyway, it finishes in two days so not much point complaining I guess.

I would advise using the "bus on a map" feature, but that relies on the ticket machine having a GPRS signal. The ticket machines which First/McGill's use are known for having GPRS signal issues, thus some buses don't track on the map, even if they're running, which isn't helpful, especially at the moment. (It also means drivers can't send/receive depot messages)

Any information about cancellations should be replicated across all channels; the fact that they're transitioning from one owner to another is no excuse for poor customer service.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Without risking going off-topic, you'll notice that there's no mention of journey cancellations on the McGill's website. The only way they "communicate" cancellations is by removing the journeys affected from the next stop departure pages. I hope this method isn't carried over to the Scotland East operation, and that a list of cancellations (akin to that provided by First, and McGill's subsidiary Xplore Dundee) is published as a service update each day.

I wonder how people would react if cancelled trains were simply deleted from station departure boards, rather than show as "cancelled"...

Journey cancellations are published here https://www.firstbus.co.uk/south-east-and-central-scotland/plan-journey/journey-cancellations

Not all of them, from my experience.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Any information about cancellations should be replicated across all channels; the fact that they're transitioning from one owner to another is no excuse for poor customer service.

I agree. Coming from a computer science background, it's insanely easy and much better practice to have one single source of data and then just read off of it for each place you want the customers to see (website and app), rather than duplicating the same data in multiple places because then you get direct and indirect conflicts and nobody knows what is what and which is correct.

Journey cancellations are published here https://www.firstbus.co.uk/south-east-and-central-scotland/plan-journey/journey-cancellations

Not all of them. Plus the ones that are on that list still appear as "running" on at least two other systems which gives conflicting information.

I would advise using the "bus on a map" feature, but that relies on the ticket machine having a GPRS signal. The ticket machines which First/McGill's use are known for having GPRS signal issues, thus some buses don't track on the map, even if they're running, which isn't helpful, especially at the moment. (It also means drivers can't send/receive depot messages)

As in on the app? Again you get the issue that not everyone can and wants to download the app, it should be available on the website as well.
For my journey this morning I did try looking at the map on bustimes but as you've said it could have been running but just not tracking.

 

[delt1c]

The FirstApp shows if journeys are cancelled ahead of time. Alternatively Bustimes.org shows live vehicle tracking.

Bus tracker map – First South East and Central Scotland – bustimes.org

Used the 1st app and was waiting for a 26 which didnt show , but app didnt tell me it was cancelled

 

[Baileygirl]

He has none, of course. Wishful thinking more than anything based on fact or evidence. What is clear to see by anyone who actually spends a fair amount of time in and around West Lothian is that the Country services are busier than ever throughout the day. Whether that is translating into hard profit is another story.

Lothian Country should be busier as First has pulled out of various areas. I.e. Craigshill, Kirknewton. East end of East Calder and Dechmont ect. Will Mcgill's start services to these areas?

 

[stevenedin]

Lothian Country should be busier as First has pulled out of various areas. I.e. Craigshill, Kirknewton. East end of East Calder and Dechmont ect. Will Mcgill's start services to these areas?

With Kirknewton I think that more services would struggle with the tight corners there and I think this caused issues when First service 23 used to operate there at the same time as Lothian Country X28. If there is one bus company operating here then they can time it to make sure that they do t meet (although delays could cause issues but at least they can do all the can to mitigate the problems here).

 

[Dfatcontroller]

Perhaps it's 33436 (SN66 WGG)? Otherwise, only two I can see it being is 33443/5 (SN66 WGV/W) as the rest of them have been / are in service in the last few days. As been mentioned only time will tell.

Having studied the picture again it could well be SN66WGV. Certainly isn't WGW.

 

[jb66]

Noticed the McGills east app is available to download, no sign of the "secret" £4.50 bus and tram ticket

 

[overthewater]

He has none, of course. Wishful thinking more than anything based on fact or evidence. What is clear to see by anyone who actually spends a fair amount of time in and around West Lothian is that the Country services are busier than ever throughout the day. Whether that is translating into hard profit is another story.

Trouble is, no one can disprove it either, as the accounts are all hidden with Lothian main accounts.

Lothian Country should be busier as First has pulled out of various areas. I.e. Craigshill, Kirknewton. East end of East Calder and Dechmont ect. Will Mcgill's start services to these areas?

The First Services are also busier on sections where Lothian pulled out, it's all swings and roundabouts.


I just can't see Lothian pulling completely out of West Lothian completely, Service X18 and X27/28 are getting busier. I'm starting to wonder if this sell off was due to take place in 2020 but Covid got in the way and has been delayed all this time. Either McGills sells off Eastern Scottish to Lothian and gets to keep Bright bus or some sort of council partnership take place and we have single ticket for all operators.