First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Andyh82]

This morning I just missed a CAT into Penzance at Newlyn Bridge. It was empty. 7 min later a MOUSE turned up from Mousehole with every seat taken. It's pretty obvious where people get on in Mousehole, ie the harbour (it always has been despite some people on these forums not wanting to accept it!).

The ideal answer is to up the service to 4bph, not reverting to the disastrous timetable last year when they tried to do it with 3 buses, but by using a 4th bus. However, that's an added cost and FSW's policy, if the cuts to the Land's End Coaster and BoS 28 are anything to go by, is to try to pack every bus to the gunnels and accept that some passengers will be left behind.

People board at the harbour because they got off at the harbour

If full sized buses were more frequent and they were dropped off at the Old Coastguards, they’d probably walk back up there to go back

Im not sure the frequency is anything to do with it, as it doesn’t take long for more than 17 passengers to turn up

 

[Goldfish62]

People board at the harbour because they got off at the harbour

If full sized buses were more frequent and they were dropped off at the Old Coastguards, they’d probably walk back up there to go back

Im not sure the frequency is anything to do with it, as it doesn’t take long for more than 17 passengers to turn up

You've lost me I'm afraid, not least because plenty of passengers are based in Mousehole, not Penzance. People do actually live in the village!

What's the reference to 17 passengers meant to be about? If you mean the Sprinters they've got 20 seats.

Personally I'm not in favour of a split. Buses either all go to the harbour or they don't. If they don't, accept some loss of passengers but this can be compensated for by being able to cut the service frequency due to using larger buses.

Whatever happens, it will come to a head when the route goes electric as EVs of "Mousehole size" carry even fewer passengers.

 

[embers25]

They could always redeploy the sprinters on the U1 lololol

 

[Goldfish62]

They could always redeploy the sprinters on the U1 lololol

Don't even think of suggesting it...

 

[Andyh82]

First Kernow reached a new low today and I felt very embarrassed for the drivers. Small buses again on the U1 again with loads of holiday makers in Newquay and Perranporth, students and shoppers. Passengers being left behind and even one waiting on crutches at Lander in Truro. A women getting off at Treliske hospital asked 'I don't normally get the bus is it always like this?' A great way to encourage travel by bus!!

They tweeted this morning that the 890 Truro College service wasn’t running due to a vehicle issue

I wonder how that works, do the kids just not go to college that day?

I presume the outstations don’t carry spares just the required number needed

 

[Leedsbusman]

Whoever told you that was talking nonsense I'm afraid.

Including an assumed 10% profit margin it's currently typically £200-250k depending on overheads, vehicle costs and length of day (which determines the number of duties and hence rota lines). It can be a lot less if it's costed marginally, eg the vehicle is fully costed already as it may for example be already used on a school working.

Were they? £600/day = £219k which looks to be right in the middle of your range!

 

[OptareOlympus]

Given that FSW is in a chronic state financially I'm more inclined to believe it's cost cutting, although I of course acknowledge that staffing is an issue. Whatever the reason, leaving passengers behind on a 2 hourly or 90 min headway in the middle of nowhere regularly is not acceptable - it's a good way to ruin the reputation of a route.

At two hourly, it probably shouldn't be carrying concessionary passes or be included in the £2 fare cap. There is simply no way to manage capacity when virtually everyone is travelling basically for free and there are no barriers to travel, especially on such a rural route. At two hourly, it should really be a premium priced tourist service, not a 4 hour jolly out for free or £2. I used it several times between 2018-2022 and it mostly coped comfortably with the loads but taking one look at a lunchtime loader in Penzance last June was enough to get me back in the car. I genuinely feel sorry for tourists arriving by rail who are then unable to reach Lands End or end up stood up downstairs the whole way on a trip marketed as a spectacular open top bus ride. I'm sure they would happily pay the £12-15 day ticket for a guaranteed seat, comfortable journeys and not risk being stranded and missing return trains.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Were they? £600/day = £219k which looks to be right in the middle of your range!

That’s if said vehicle is running 365 days a year, which it won’t.

 

[Andyh82]

Is a better low/mid season frequency on the LAND service - hourly Penzance to Lands End but every 2 hours over the rest of it (or at least the Lands End to St Ives middle bit)

As surely most passengers use it to get to lands end. St Ives passengers will mostly use the 17

 

[Rodent48]

First Kernow reached a new low today and I felt very embarrassed for the drivers. Small buses again on the U1 again with loads of holiday makers in Newquay and Perranporth, students and shoppers. Passengers being left behind and even one waiting on crutches at Lander in Truro. A women getting off at Treliske hospital asked 'I don't normally get the bus is it always like this?' A great way to encourage travel by bus!!

Unfortunately this is not a "new" low and has been ongoing since the start of the new timetables around Easter. Almost always the ones that start from Summercourt. It is starting to become expected on certain trips!

 

[Leedsbusman]

That’s if said vehicle is running 365 days a year, which it won’t.

True but the op said 2018/9. RPI is 33% Apr 19-Apr 24 so 600*1.33 = 800. 250 days at £800 = £200k.

It doesn’t sound nonsense to suggest a bus needed to earn £600/day to pay for itself five years ago.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

True but the op said 2018/9. RPI is 33% Apr 19-Apr 24 so 600*1.33 = 800. 250 days at £800 = £200k.

It doesn’t sound nonsense to suggest a bus needed to earn £600/day to pay for itself five years ago.

About 5 years ago, you were looking at £45/hr so £45*12*300 = £160k p.a.

 

[richw]

Whoever told you that was talking nonsense I'm afraid.

Including an assumed 10% profit margin it's currently typically £200-250k depending on overheads, vehicle costs and length of day (which determines the number of duties and hence rota lines). It can be a lot less if it's costed marginally, eg the vehicle is fully costed already as it may for example be already used on a school working.

Except the figure I was quoting is right in the centre of your range.

About 5 years ago, you were looking at £45/hr so £45*12*300 = £160k p.a.

I’ve just checked the spreadsheet I was sent at the time , and it’s dated April 2019, and the base figure was £55 an hour on that for a 12 hour day. Assuming 300 days a year that would be £198,000. With the 2018-2024 inflation quoted above that would be £263,000. So probably just under the 250,000 from 2019-2024

 

[Goldfish62]

About 5 years ago, you were looking at £45/hr so £45*12*300 = £160k p.a.

That's indeed about spot on. The largest increase has taken place in the past couple of years. When general inflation was running at around 12% industry-specific inflation was roughly double that, accounted for by staff, fuel and insurance costs rocketing. It's a wonder more operators haven't gone under.

Looking at Bustimes, there's no open toppers on the Atlantic Coaster again today (16th June) yet the Lands End Coaster has a full complement of open top B9s.

Have the E400s had it? From reports the ones on the Exmoor Coaster sound like they're on their last legs.

 

[richw]

Have the E400s had it?

They’re 15/16 year old Euro 4 tridents, so certainly passed their best. Definitely not suitable for exmoor!

 

[dgl]

They’re 15/16 year old Euro 4 tridents, so certainly passed their best. Definitely not suitable for exmoor!

Well they put the old open top presidents on the various open top routes round here, Abbotsbury Hill is not known for being flat!

 

[Andyh82]

That's indeed about spot on. The largest increase has taken place in the past couple of years. When general inflation was running at around 12% industry-specific inflation was roughly double that, accounted for by staff, fuel and insurance costs rocketing. It's a wonder more operators haven't gone under.

Looking at Bustimes, there's no open toppers on the Atlantic Coaster again today (16th June) yet the Land's End Coaster has a full complement of open top B9s.

Have the E400s had it? From reports the ones on the Exmoor Coaster sound like they're on their last legs.

Are you sure it isn’t weather related?

Looking at some previous dates, the ATLA had a full complement of open toppers other days none?

It seems unlikely there would fluctuate from 100% availability to 0% availability

 

[richw]

Well they put the old open top presidents on the various open top routes round here, Abbotsbury Hill is not known for being flat!

Aren’t they Volvos though?

 

[dgl]

Aren’t they Volvos though?

Well yes all the old ones with B7TL chassis, we got rid of the '04 Scania decker a few years ago as they were completely knackered.

 

[Goldfish62]

Are you sure it isn’t weather related?

That's why I specifically mentioned that the LEC had a full compliment of open toppers out today.

The weather is usually much wilder in the far west and the awful weather on Thursday didn't stop a full allocation on the LEC. Why would there be a different policy for the Atlantic Coaster, especially as they're all-weather part open toppers?

In any case if they're going to avoid putting out open toppers because of a bit of intermittent cloud they may as well not bother at all.

 

[Busaholic]

There've been no buses along Market Jew Street or Alverton Street in Penzance since Saturday, with Alverton Street closed in each direction at Greenmarket. Plenty of time, therefore, for Transport for Cornwall on behalf of both bus operators along this corridor, of which First provides the majority of journeys, to inform intending passengers on Market Jew Street of the situation. Instead, when I arrived by car just before 4 p.m. there were plenty of people including the elderly and schoolchildren waiting at the westbound bus stop with the screen in the shelter showing all the fictional buses that would be arriving shortly. I did my best to try to direct as many as possible to the bus station, but some were obviously suspicious of an old guy shuffling along with a stick having correct information! Nevertheless, after I'd conducted my business in three shops, there were more people waiting there, and this time they appeared to take notice. Other traffic, including taxis, were still legitimately driving along, as they could turn left at the top by Lloyds Bank, so everything seemed normal other than luck of buses.

 

[Goldfish62]

There've been no buses along Market Jew Street or Alverton Street in Penzance since Saturday, with Alverton Street closed in each direction at Greenmarket. Plenty of time, therefore, for Transport for Cornwall on behalf of both bus operators along this corridor, of which First provides the majority of journeys, to inform intending passengers on Market Jew Street of the situation. Instead, when I arrived by car just before 4 p.m. there were plenty of people including the elderly and schoolchildren waiting at the westbound bus stop with the screen in the shelter showing all the fictional buses that would be arriving shortly. I did my best to try to direct as many as possible to the bus station, but some were obviously suspicious of an old guy shuffling along with a stick having correct information! Nevertheless, after I'd conducted my business in three shops, there were more people waiting there, and this time they appeared to take notice. Other traffic, including taxis, were still legitimately driving along, as they could turn left at the top by Lloyds Bank, so everything seemed normal other than luck of buses.

I've just looked at Bustimes and see what you mean.

There's no mention of it on either operator's social media or website. GCB are usually very good, FK somewhat less so.

This is the most basic stuff that the TfC partnership should be getting right.

By the way, what's the closure for?

 

[embers25]

They put in on X, although the average Penzance person probably doesn't use X

 

[Busaholic]

I've just looked at Bustimes and see what you mean.

There's no mention of it on either operator's social media or website. GCB are usually very good, FK somewhat less so.

This is the most basic stuff that the TfC partnership should be getting right.

By the way, what's the closure for?

'Emergency' gasworks in Alverton Street that appear to have involved digging a bit of road up and leaving it to 'settle' while the workers disappear elsewhere! It stopped me from getting anywhere near to the Nat West bank where I had some fairly urgent business, as I can only walk about 50 yards now.

 

[Goldfish62]

They put in on X, although the average Penzance person probably doesn't use X

Ah yes, found it. But nothing on the website and also nothing at all from GCB who are usually very good at publicising even the most minor of service alterations. Makes you wonder if it's just local staff who are aware of it and it hasn't for some reason been passed on.

 

[richw]

They put in on X, although the average Penzance person probably doesn't use X

I flagged the post above to a person in the GoCornwall office,

 

[Busaholic]

Today a double decker was on the Mousehole, the 12.30ish journey from the bus station had three passengers as it went along the Prom. The 15A wasn't using Alexandra Road, but the 15 was!! Yesterday the dedicated Mousehole buses were using Tarovear Road and Adelaide Street, but I don't know about today,

 

[Goldfish62]

Today a double decker was on the Mousehole, the 12.30ish journey from the bus station had three passengers as it went along the Prom. The 15A wasn't using Alexandra Road, but the 15 was!! Yesterday the dedicated Mousehole buses were using Tarovear Road and Adelaide Street, but I don't know about today,

That would have been The CAT that you saw. It goes along the Prom anyway. The MOUS today had two Sprinters and the one remaining Solo on it.

I assume you mean 5 and 5A? The 5 would need to use Alexandra Road to access Alverton and the A30 before going down the Coombe.

I flagged the post above to a person in the GoCornwall office,

GCB website now fully updated with details. Good work!

 

[vla50]

Are all 13 of 36168, 171-174, 176-182 and 184 all due into Cornwall? Not sure on whether the 8 Streetdecks at Leicester will all inevitably end up in Norwich but with the 5 from Leeds that have now arrived plus the 8 streetdecks, would that be all 361**s B9s from Vulcan Road gone?

 

[Whiteway215]

Are all 13 of 36168, 171-174, 176-182 and 184 all due into Cornwall? Not sure on whether the 8 Streetdecks at Leicester will all inevitably end up in Norwich but with the 5 from Leeds that have now arrived plus the 8 streetdecks, would that be all 361**s B9s from Vulcan Road gone?

There was a previous report on this thread saying 10 B9TLs were due to come to Kernow from Norwich and of those due 36168/71-74 are the ones still to come west. However with all these matters plans do change.