First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Citistar]

I'm struggling to think of a situation where a "Use it or lose it" ultimatum hasn't resulted in the latter happening. I'm surprised the 25 and 58/A have lasted as long as they have.

 

[M803UYA]

Somerset County Council makes "use it or lose it"

'Use it or lose it' warns council as it subsidises loss making bus routes

Somerset Council has stepped in to save four sus services with low passenger numbers.

www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk

The 54 is the former joint Southern/Western National 264 Beeching-era rail replacement service. Presumably one of the last to survive.

Struggling to see how the 28 is loss making, besides the company's own choice not to run services on the route in favour of using the drivers to run open toppers along the Bristol Channel. With Butlins at one end it's a major connection of a rail-less town (as in National Rail!) to a town which has one.

58 used to have significant traffic to Yeovil College, so much so that three/four buses were used in the AM peak to handle the loads. These days the college runs it's own network of services for the students, First having withdrawn many of the links 'due to lack of support'. Classic example of why some services shouldn't be withdrawn because of the overhead cost having to transfer to fewer vehicles.

Yeovil depot must be next on the list of closures - 54/58 account for 40% of the depot's vehicle requirement and the overhead has been spread over fewer than 20 vehicles for a number of years now. When First took over, it was a 63 vehicle allocation. The work remains, just not done by First vehicles!

 

[randyrippley]

Is the Yeovil depot still in the Nautilus works? That's so historic they'll never allow demolition.
Where Petter's started, and as a result birthplace of Westlands

History of the Nautilus works

Yeovil's Virtual Museum, the A-to-Z of Yeovil's History - by Bob Osborn

An A-to-Z History of Yeovil, Somerset, England - by Bob Osborn

www.yeovilhistory.info

 

[Andyh82]

I bet if you read into it, I bet the council are supporting journeys at certain times of day or on certain days rather than the whole service making a loss. The local paper wouldn’t understand such nuances.

The idea that the entire 28 service is about to be withdrawn with no buses at all to Minehead makes a much better headline

 

[Peter Philips]

Council stop gap to protect key bus routes in Somerset

Four bus services to be supported as part of the county's bus service improvement plan

www.somerset.gov.uk

Direct from Somerset Council

 

[SW Buses]

Council stop gap to protect key bus routes in Somerset

Four bus services to be supported as part of the county's bus service improvement plan

www.somerset.gov.uk

Direct from Somerset Council

Comparing the 28 here in the curent PDF of the timetable book

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/node_images/Buses%20of%20Somerset%20bus%20times%20from%2030%20January%202023%20v2.pdf

Against the html timetable shown here from the September change;

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/api/timetables/pdf?opco=41&service=28-SO&day=su&date=2023-09-03&print=pdf

There is minimal change, except Sunday has an extra journey from September. Was the second link above before or after the LA intervention?

 

[M803UYA]

Is the Yeovil depot still in the Nautilus works? That's so historic they'll never allow demolition.
Where Petter's started, and as a result birthplace of Westlands

History of the Nautilus works

Yeovil's Virtual Museum, the A-to-Z of Yeovil's History - by Bob Osborn

An A-to-Z History of Yeovil, Somerset, England - by Bob Osborn

www.yeovilhistory.info

They wouldn't allow it to be demolished, but it could be redeveloped into flats etc by adapting the existing building. The rear shed isn't listed.

 

[henairs]

I'm struggling to think of a situation where a "Use it or lose it" ultimatum hasn't resulted in the latter happening. I'm surprised the 25 and 58/A have lasted as long as they have.

You obviously don’t live in the area then as the Yeovil to Sherborne corridor is very busy with 58/Y4 services.
Agreed that it's quieter beyond Sherborne but if we get rid of all bus services in this country that don’t fit city criteria what would be left.
First have a well earned reputation as an asset/money orientated company who see passengers as an inconvenience rather than customers.
They are too large in their control areas and so isolated from day to day reality, plus there are too many doom merchants who seek to be as negative as possible.
We are not American or wish to follow that dreadful country’s example on how to live but seem to be heading ever more swiftly in that direction.

 

[Citistar]

You obviously don’t live in the area then as the Yeovil to Sherborne corridor is very busy with 58/Y4 services.
Agreed quieter beyond Sherborne but if we get rid of all bus services in this country that don’t fit city criteria what would be left.

I know the services between Yeovil and Sherborne are busy, but the rest of it seems rather less so. The absence of the Y4 on Saturdays makes the whole offering look pretty weak.

 

[Paperyostrich]

They wouldn't allow it to be demolished, but it could be redeveloped into flats etc by adapting the existing building. The rear shed isn't listed.

I know the services between Yeovil and Sherborne are busy, but the rest of it seems rather less so. The absence of the Y4 on Saturdays makes the whole offering look pretty weak.

The absense of the Y4 on a Saturday means that the 58 is often overcrowded between Henstridge and Yeovil.

The Y4 is paid for by Dorset Council and they don't seem to offer weekend timetables on their core routes. The 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 are also all Monday-Friday only.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Apologies for being a self-publicist but had a trip on Exmoor Coaster on Thursday and have posted my experience/observations on the trip report thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trips-by-bus-and-coach-your-reports.224583/page-24 - hope it's of interest

They wouldn't allow it to be demolished, but it could be redeveloped into flats etc by adapting the existing building. The rear shed isn't listed.

I don't think that any of it is actually listed. Looking at the nice new development behind, you can see what might well happen to such a site. I hope not as it is a real time capsule but money talks and the Yeovil operation is looking as vulnerable as I've ever known

The absense of the Y4 on a Saturday means that the 58 is often overcrowded between Henstridge and Yeovil.

The Y4 is paid for by Dorset Council and they don't seem to offer weekend timetables on their core routes. The 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7 are also all Monday-Friday only.

Got to remember that up until a few years ago, the 57/58 provided a half hourly headway between Yeovil and Sherborne. The 57 was then axed (at the same time as the 54 and 77 became every 90 mins) and then the hourly 58 was cut to two hourly in favour of the X10 being won on tender but, as you say, it runs only Mon-Fri.

 

[geoffk]

Last day of the Dartmoor Explorer tomorrow. Hopefully not permanently, but we'll have to wait and see.

It feels like the potential of this wonderful route has never been fully realised, in stark contrast to the Exmoor Coaster.

So it's finished earlier than planned - the publicity says 9th September. It's had single deckers for a while because of overhanging trees between Exeter and Moretonhampstead but that doesn't seem a valid reason for curtailing it.

 

[Goldfish62]

So it's finished earlier than planned - the publicity says 9th September. It's had single deckers for a while because of overhanging trees between Exeter and Moretonhampstead but that doesn't seem a valid reason for curtailing it.

The registration was indeed cancelled effective from 26th August before the service even restarted this year.

It's been single deck throughout. I dare say that as soon as the tree issue was discovered FSW wouldn't have wanted to have operated the route at all, but as it was registered they were committed and the earliest date it could be cancelled was 26th August.

 

[geoffk]

The registration was indeed cancelled effective from 26th August before the service even restarted this year.

It's been single deck throughout. I dare say that as soon as the tree issue was discovered FSW wouldn't have wanted to have operated the route at all, but as it was registered they were committed and the earliest date it could be cancelled was 26th August.

Presumably it's the highway authority's responsibility to keep the trees trimmed back and they delegate it to a bus operator with a tree-lopper, but these are few and far between now.

 

[Goldfish62]

Presumably it's the highway authority's responsibility to keep the trees trimmed back and they delegate it to a bus operator with a tree-lopper, but these are few and far between now.

It's the highway's responsibility to trim the trees. FSW no longer have a tree lopper due to legal issues.

 

[Citistar]

Sadly the majority of Highway Authorities seem to have absolutely zero interest in addressing overgrown trees and other roadside foliage. There are roads which we have used on a daily basis over the past decade which have had their usable width reduced by around 2ft because of overgrowth (and can be evidenced by Google StreetView) which seems impossible to be dealt with, especially if it adjoins residential properties. I suspect Highways staff prefer the roads being narrower because they think it slows traffic down, which seems to be their whole raison d'etre.

 

[richw]

Presumably it's the highway authority's responsibility to keep the trees trimmed back and they delegate it to a bus operator with a tree-lopper, but these are few and far between now.

Yet the stagecoach 1 has diverted along the offending stretch of road several times in the last month due to road closures between yelverton and Tavistock without issue.

Sadly the majority of Highway Authorities seem to have absolutely zero interest in addressing overgrown trees and other roadside foliage. There are roads which we have used on a daily basis over the past decade which have had their usable width reduced by around 2ft because of overgrowth (and can be evidenced by Google StreetView) which seems impossible to be dealt with, especially if it adjoins residential properties. I suspect Highways staff prefer the roads being narrower because they think it slows traffic down, which seems to be their whole raison d'etre.

Devon council are normally very prompt to address tree issues when reported

 

[Goldfish62]

There's been much debate on here about the size and capacity of the Mousehole Sprinters.

Taken from the interior notices they are 7.8m long by 2.2m wide. The longer of the Mousehole Solos are / were 7.8m x 2.33m. However the sidewalls on the Sprinters are around double the thickness of those on the Solos so the useable interior width is at least 20cm narrower.

Capacity is 20 seated + 6 standing. The Solos are 21 seated, 12 standing.

 

[M803UYA]

Devon council are normally very prompt to address tree issues when reported

But are they going to direct their resources towards a summer only tourist bus service, in preference to an all year round service?

West of Lynmouth to Ilfracombe, the trees haven't been chopped there either.

 

[farwest]

The trees alongside a highway are the responsibility of the landowner. Cornwall Council do not take responsibility.

 

[Goldfish62]

The trees alongside a highway are the responsibility of the landowner. Cornwall Council do not take responsibility.

Oh yes they do. The council has a statutory duty to prevent obstruction of the highway. Whether they do this themselves or force the landowner to is up to them.

 

[JKP]

Oh yes they do. The council has a statutory duty to prevent obstruction of the highway. Whether they do this themselves or force the landowner to is up to them.

The property owner is responsible for cutting back trees and hedges. I see farmers locally regularly cutting back hedges. The local authority generally only becomes involved when a complaint is made and then issues a notice to the property owner who should then act within a given time frame. Only then if the work is not carried out or if requested does the Council carry out the work.

 

[Goldfish62]

The property owner is responsible for cutting back trees and hedges. I see farmers locally regularly cutting back hedges. The local authority generally only becomes involved when a complaint is made and then issues a notice to the property owner who should then act within a given time frame. Only then if the work is not carried out or if requested does the Council carry out the work.

I know the property owner is responsible for cutting back. Nevertheless that does not negate the fact that if trees or hedges are obstructing the highway in such a way as to cause a hazard the highway authority has a statutory duty to deal with the matter.

 

[Andyh82]

The property owner is responsible for cutting back trees and hedges. I see farmers locally regularly cutting back hedges. The local authority generally only becomes involved when a complaint is made and then issues a notice to the property owner who should then act within a given time frame. Only then if the work is not carried out or if requested does the Council carry out the work.

And I imagine that timeframe, knowing councils, is quite long

The trees may be cut back by the start of the 2024 summer season

 

[GusB]

While I appreciate that the subject of tree cutting has a slight relevance, it's very much a side issue and is not the main subject of the thread. Let's get back on topic, please.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

While I appreciate that the subject of tree cutting has a slight relevance, it's very much a side issue and is not the main subject of the thread. Let's get back on topic, please.

Cutting hedges is a side issue literally (Grabs coat)

 

[Whiteway215]

Cutting hedges is a side issue literally (Grabs coat)

Leafing through all the posts about the trees we should be hedging our bets as to who is responsible as GusB says we are branching away from the main topic.

 

[markymark2000]

Struggling to see how the 28 is loss making, besides the company's own choice not to run services on the route in favour of using the drivers to run open toppers along the Bristol Channel. With Butlins at one end it's a major connection of a rail-less town (as in National Rail!) to a town which has one.

The 28 should be booming taking everything into account. Sadly I don't think enough is done to promote the Butlins link nor done to promote it's touristy links to the West Somerset Railway. It's worth saying that the Butlins stop, the one which should be the busiest as there are 7,500 people holidaying just the other side of the fences (plus hundreds of staff who need transport to/from work), doesn't have a bus stop timetable or shelter. Just a flag. What a way to encourage holiday makers onto your bus! Otherwise, the only issue which holiday makers may have with the route could be journey time. 1h30 when you can drive it in half that time. I understand why the 28 does what it does but it does take a long time compared to driving.

The only way that I think the 28 could be deemed unviable is that they are keeping Minehead outstation going for a few buses and then the summer uplift. While it wouldn't be as good in the summer with driving hours rules or as good for the Exmoor Coaster buses as they would be doing more miles daily but for about 6 months of the year, you are paying for a yard to accommodate 4 bus boards and all of the costs associated with this outstation will be put onto the 28 because there is no other source of revenue.

Yeovil depot must be next on the list of closures - 54/58 account for 40% of the depot's vehicle requirement and the overhead has been spread over fewer than 20 vehicles for a number of years now. When First took over, it was a 63 vehicle allocation. The work remains, just not done by First vehicles!

54 is PVR of 2 but that seems split between Taunton and Yeovil, as are drivers it seems. I was on the 54 the other day and as we got to Somerton, the other 54 pulled up behind us and both drivers swapped over between the buses (so the Taunton driver did Taunton - Somerton, switched buses and then went back to Taunton).
58 is only 1 bus plus one evening peak extra.

While I don't think it works out as 40% of the PVR, I think it is fair to say that due to the low PVR of the depot, it is a good chunk which would be lost and it would probably be quite easy for them to move or drop services (as appropriate) to close the depot down seeing as the PVR will be so low.

 

[GusB]

Cutting hedges is a side issue literally (Grabs coat)

Leafing through all the posts about the trees we should be hedging our bets as to who is responsible as GusB says we are branching away from the main topic.

Are there any other poor puns before I start wielding the axe?

 

[Ian10]

Yet the stagecoach 1 has diverted along the offending stretch of road several times in the last month due to road closures between yelverton and Tavistock without issue.


Devon council are normally very prompt to address tree issues when reported

Surely, the tree problems are between Moretonhampstead and Exeter?