First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

The new management don’t have the appetite for it?

Another thing to consider if it’s marginal, a Gemini does around 5mpg, a Solo SR between 12-15mpg.

Both very good points.

 

[heathrowrail]

The new management don’t have the appetite for it?

Another thing to consider if it’s marginal, a Gemini does around 5mpg, a Solo SR between 12-15mpg.

If this is referencing the Dartmoor Explorer, maybe by the time it's done the dead mileage to get to Exeter it's not really worth bothering?

 

[Andyh82]

The new management don’t have the appetite for it?

Another thing to consider if it’s marginal, a Gemini does around 5mpg, a Solo SR between 12-15mpg.

If it’s been registered and they can’t cancel it I’m not sure why they’d deliberately try to discourage people from using it, that makes no financial sense

 

[GBM]

There are several runs from Langarth to Tregurra in the 'rush hour' that leave full and overstanding (very late departures!). The T1's wouldn't cope with that loading. Likewise the return services wouldn't cope either.
Tregurra frequently have full load on leaving, and pick up a full standing enroute to Langarth.
Don't forget, many school pupils and College pupils use the P&R service!
With First cutting running times between stops, there is absolutely no way any diverted service could cope with rush hour demand from either P&R end (rush hour)!

 

[Goldfish62]

There are several runs from Langarth to Tregurra in the 'rush hour' that leave full and overstanding (very late departures!). The T1's wouldn't cope with that loading. Likewise the return services wouldn't cope either.
Tregurra frequently have full load on leaving, and pick up a full standing enroute to Langarth.
Don't forget, many school pupils and College pupils use the P&R service!
With First cutting running times between stops, there is absolutely no way any diverted service could cope with rush hour demand from either P&R end (rush hour)!

Despite the speculation on this thread I see no chance of the P&R ceasing operation. It'll either be renegotiated, possibly with revised service patterns, or retendered.

 

[richw]

Despite the speculation on this thread I see no chance of the P&R ceasing operation. It'll either be renegotiated, possibly with revised service patterns, or retendered.

The current contract was priced in 2019, on a fixed fee. Revenue goes to council. Presumably with the way costs have increased its simply the fixed fee that is no longer viable and not the actual service

 

[Goldfish62]

The current contract was priced in 2019, on a fixed fee. Revenue goes to council. Presumably with the way costs have increased its simply the fixed fee that is no longer viable and not the actual service

Yes, it's a gross coat contract so I don't know why the FSW Commercial Director stated that the service was no longer viable due to lower passenger numbers.

The Ts&Cs issued with the tender specification back in 2019 stated that the price would be uplifted annually based on CPI each September (post #19, 779 refers), so either that clause was negotiated out before award or the annual CPI uplift no longer covers the costs of operation (which is highly likely as fuel and staffing costs among others have risen well above CPI).

 

[GBM]

|'m guessing as it is a tendered service, it will have to go out for retendering again.

 

[Goldfish62]

|'m guessing as it is a tendered service, it will have to go out for retendering again.

Not necessarily. Depends how the negotiations go.

 

[richw]

Yes, it's a gross coat contract so I don't know why the FSW Commercial Director stated that the service was no longer viable due to lower passenger numbers.

The Ts&Cs issued with the tender specification back in 2019 stated that the price would be uplifted annually based on CPI each September (post #19, 779 refers), so either that clause was negotiated out before award or the annual CPI uplift no longer covers the costs of operation (which is highly likely as fuel and staffing costs among others have risen well above CPI).

FSW gave drivers a near 20% pay rise last winter. £11ph to £13ph. fuel prices have risen significantly due to the war and post covid. Price of parts for vehicles have sky rocketed too.

 

[M803UYA]

|'m guessing as it is a tendered service, it will have to go out for retendering again.

Likely to be the option the council goes with unless First can renegotiate the contract price. Evidently it no longer matches the costs of operation. Another operator might not have the same cost levels, and may be able to bid cheaper. Unlikely in this climate, but possible.

 

[richw]

Another operator might not have the same cost levels, and may be able to bid cheaper. Unlikely in this climate, but possible.

Depends what margins the operators are aiming for. There won’t be a lot of difference in base costs at current prices. But if one operator expects 5% profit and another 10% that will be the deciding factor on price.

 

[M803UYA]

Depends what margins the operators are aiming for. There won’t be a lot of difference in base costs at current prices. But if one operator expects 5% profit and another 10% that will be the deciding factor on price.

Quite. Some operators may not be paying for things others do - particularly paid meal breaks or staff uniforms. Or a lower hourly pay rate. But I can't see any tenders being that wildly adrift of the present one.

 

[richw]

Quite. Some operators may not be paying for things others do - particularly paid meal breaks or staff uniforms. Or a lower hourly pay rate. But I can't see any tenders being that wildly adrift of the present one.

I think we’d be looking around 25% increase on current prices, but not a lot of variation in those bids. I imagine it would be a straight battle between go ahead and first

 

[Goldfish62]

FSW gave drivers a near 20% pay rise last winter. £11ph to £13ph. fuel prices have risen significantly due to the war and post covid. Price of parts for vehicles have sky rocketed too.

Agree with all that and if they bid on a tight margin to begin with that'll have been wiped out. And being a gross cost contract there is no ability to increase revenue through increasing passenger numbers.

I don't think most people have any idea the problems operators have with rising costs currently.

A recent quote from National Express West Midlands was that while revenue is back to 93% compared to 2019 costs are at 125%.

 

[richw]

Agree with all that and if they bid on a tight margin to begin with that'll have been wiped out. And being a gross cost contract there is no ability to increase revenue through increasing passenger numbers.

I don't think most people have any idea the problems operators have with rising costs currently.

A recent quote from National Express West Midlands was that while revenue is back to 93% compared to 2019 costs are at 125%.

Green bus in the Midlands have withdrawn all bus services due to a huge increase in their insurance renewal making all of their commercial services unviable overnight.

 

[Goldfish62]

Green bus in the Midlands have withdrawn all bus services due to a huge increase in their insurance renewal making all of their commercial services unviable overnight.

There are bus operators going bust weekly. Desperate times.

 

[buscoaster]

Beautiful weather today, and four closed tops on the Lands End Coaster!

 

[Goldfish62]

Beautiful weather today, and four closed tops on the Lands End Coaster!

Same yesterday. It was very disappointing to see. Fortunately both buses I travelled on were open toppers. And both standing room only!

What it does mean is that five of the nine Land's End Coaster B9s are unavailable for service!

 

[KendalKing]

FSW gave drivers a near 20% pay rise last winter. £11ph to £13ph.

I was earning that as a driver in London, 22-years ago.

 

[richw]

I was earn that as a driver in London, 22-years ago.

That’s like comparing apples and pears. London has always had much higher pay.

But the margin is clearly much less now suggesting London drivers haven’t received anywhere close to similar pay rises as elsewhere

 

[KendalKing]

That’s like comparing apples and pears. London has always had much higher pay.

But the margin is clearly much less now suggesting London drivers haven’t received anywhere close to similar pay rises as elsewhere

Most companies in Lancashire, are currently paying drivers, between £14.30 and £15ph.

 

[richw]

Most companies in Lancashire, are currently paying drivers, between £14.30 and £15ph.

That’s the going rate down here, except First who’ve fell well behind

 

[Busaholic]

53505 on the Mousehole today.

 

[Goldfish62]

53505 on the Mousehole today.

It was out there every day last week, plus two Sprinters.

 

[Busaholic]

It was out there every day last week, plus two Sprinters.

Life in the old dog yet (the same is said of me.)

 

[Accelerator59]

It’s saying on here (not sure if it’s true or not) that First Kernow are acquiring an 11 plate Enviro 200 from RATP Group in London. Any clarification on this? https://buslists.uk/fleet.php?ownerid=169

 

[Fin447]

very unlikely, that website is quite unreliable sadly

 

[83G/84D]

53505 on the Mousehole today.

53701 is in the naughty corner at Camborne with a front panel missing, I believe it was towed in. Therefore there is no back up Solo if 53505 is unavailable.

 

[Goldfish62]

53701 is in the naughty corner at Camborne with a front panel missing, I believe it was towed in. Therefore there is no back up Solo if 53505 is unavailable.

And Sprinter 54112 is off the road due to drinking oil I'm told, while 54111 is still in Wales awaiting a replacement gearbox.