First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

That's not bad considering First said that the rollout was completed back in April 2023!

First Bus completes UK wide rollout of Tap On, Tap Off ticketing technology across entire fleet

First Bus completes UK wide

www.firstgroupplc.com

That was just one big, fat lie wasn't it! I'm sure the shareholders love being lied to like that.

And it's not even fully enabled in Cornwall, only being applicable for Cornwall Day and Week tickets, rendering it completely worthless for individual journeys.

 

[Snozzel]

Its the worst system ever; customers tapping in without realising when they actually want a return etc, then the driverr trying to explain what they've done. It can be used on individual journeys which are then capped at the day or weekly max fare. Lots of people don't tap back out and will be in for a shock when the £2 fare is lifted.

 

[stait.john]

That's not bad considering First said that the rollout was completed back in April 2023!

First Bus completes UK wide rollout of Tap On, Tap Off ticketing technology across entire fleet

First Bus completes UK wide

www.firstgroupplc.com

That was just one big, fat lie wasn't it! I'm sure the shareholders love being lied to like that.

Oldham Depot was never done, either, due to the impending franchising.

 

[richw]

If, and it's still in the world of conjecture, Stagecoach were to be the new operator of Taunton P&R, I wouldn't be surprised.

Confirmed stagecoach to operate from Tiverton outstation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Confirmed stagecoach to operate from Tiverton outstation.

That was the outcome I was thinking of - not too far to bomb up the M5 and recall there was space at Tiverton. I'm guessing that some e200mmc might be employed?

 

[Volvodart]

That was the outcome I was thinking of - not too far to bomb up the M5 and recall there was space at Tiverton. I'm guessing that some e200mmc might be employed?

Someone posted a copy of the staff notice which said double deckers in a bespoke livery.

 

[MarkC]

Bit risky for First IMO, 'inviting' Stagecoach into Somerset really! Stagecoach already taken over North Devon and Plymouth ops from First in recent years, is Somerset next?

 

[Ryan H]

Bit risky for First IMO, 'inviting' Stagecoach into Somerset really! Stagecoach already taken over North Devon and Plymouth ops from First in recent years, is Somerset next?

hopefully cause first bus here at the moment are always cancelling more than 5 services a day

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bit risky for First IMO, 'inviting' Stagecoach into Somerset really! Stagecoach already taken over North Devon and Plymouth ops from First in recent years, is Somerset next?

Have you forgotten that Stagecoach already tried to get into Somerset? In fact, they operated the Taunton Park and Ride having taken over Cooks Coaches and their depot at Greenham business park near Wellington.

Someone posted a copy of the staff notice which said double deckers in a bespoke livery.

Deckers? With loadings I've seen, you could manage with Solos (which is what First were going to use IIRC before the management changed)

 

[baza585]

Deckers? With loadings I've seen, you could manage with Solos (which is what First were going to use IIRC before the management changed)

Agreed but if the council are paying for deckers, Stagecoach won't care........

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Agreed but if the council are paying for deckers, Stagecoach won't care........

Apart from specifying seats in the finest panda fur, the council can have what it likes if it's prepared to pay! However, fair to say that loadings don't justify it.

Cooks used Solos, Webberbus used Solos, and First used short Streetlites, and it's not as if Somerset Council has money to burn on specifying larger vehicles than required. If someone has specified deckers, they're either optimistic or inept.

 

[CD]

Bit risky for First IMO, 'inviting' Stagecoach into Somerset really! Stagecoach already taken over North Devon and Plymouth ops from First in recent years, is Somerset next?

Ever since the new "hatchet man" MD took over, it looks like the aim is to get out of Somerset.

 

[baza585]

Apart from specifying seats in the finest panda fur, the council can have what it likes if it's prepared to pay! However, fair to say that loadings don't justify it.

Cooks used Solos, Webberbus used Solos, and First used short Streetlites, and it's not as if Somerset Council has money to burn on specifying larger vehicles than required. If someone has specified deckers, they're either optimistic or inept.

If it's the council, I think we both know which!

Ever since the new "hatchet man" MD took over, it looks like the aim is to get out of Somerset.

Hampshire have also lost a lot of tendered work to Stagecoach recently. Under the same management of course.

Either Stagecoach under it's new owner is going for quantity by bidding using marginal cost (which I can see the argument for) or First is not bothered about losing tendered scheduled services.

Either way, it's an interesting development given the MD of Stagecoach South is the previous MD of First H&D.

 

[richw]

Either way, it's an interesting development given the MD of Stagecoach South is the previous MD of First H&D.

Carol Sim is starting as ops manager at stagecoach south in March. Currently in a similar position at First South. I assume she has a good history of working with Marc Reddy previously at First Hants and Dorset

Stagecoach are clearly going after tenders, SSW have won east Cornwall schools- looe, callington and Launceston schools- one of the Launceston schools ventures as far west as Jamaica inn, Tiverton town tenders from dartline, Devon tenders from go aheads short venture to Exeter, Plymouth new route tenders, and some Tavistock schools, as well as Hampshire recent awards and now this park and ride in the last few months.

From Facebook postings the funding buses of Somerset received to keep some commercial routes operating runs out in April. I assume we will see a competitive tender of these routes unless bos decide to go full commercial again?
54 Yeovil to Taunton
58/58a Yeovil to wincanton
28 Taunton to minehead
25 Taunton to Dulverton .

 

[Peter Philips]

Deckers? With loadings I've seen, you could manage with Solos (which is what First were going to use IIRC before the management changed)

There were two tender specs, with the option of using a reduced three DD on a lower 20 minute frequency (as opposed to four SD every 15 minutes).

 

[xanpb]

Have you forgotten that Stagecoach already tried to get into Somerset? In fact, they operated the Taunton Park and Ride having taken over Cooks Coaches and their depot at Greenham business park near Wellington.


Deckers? With loadings I've seen, you could manage with Solos (which is what First were going to use IIRC before the management changed)

First have also been using deckers on the PR1 though, so it's not unheard of. The loadings I've seen, especially at peak times, definitely needs deckers or higher capacity singles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There were two tender specs, with the option of using a reduced three DD on a lower 20 minute frequency (as opposed to four SD every 15 minutes).

Thanks - I guess that explains things but still overkill

First have also been using deckers on the PR1 though, so it's not unheard of. The loadings I've seen, especially at peak times, definitely needs deckers or higher capacity single's.

I've seen First using deckers but more for operational convenience rather than loadings.

 

[richw]

Thanks - I guess that explains things but still overkill

The release to staff mentions working with the hospital to make the service more attractive for staff and visitors to the hospital. In Plymouth and Exeter there are offers for NHS staff available. I’d expect something in Taunton too.
Exeter NHS staff have a unique link to buy discounted tickets on the app.
Plymouth NHS staff travel free of charge on presentation of NHS staff ID between the George park and ride and Derriford. I believe they also have a unique link to get discounted fares on the app

 

[Paperyostrich]

Carol Sim is starting as ops manager at stagecoach south in March. Currently in a similar position at First South. I assume she has a good history of working with Marc Reddy previously at First Hants and Dorset

Stagecoach are clearly going after tenders, SSW have won east Cornwall schools- looe, callington and Launceston schools- one of the Launceston schools ventures as far west as Jamaica inn, Tiverton town tenders from dartline, Devon tenders from go aheads short venture to Exeter, Plymouth new route tenders, and some Tavistock schools, as well as Hampshire recent awards and now this park and ride in the last few months.

From Facebook postings the funding buses of Somerset received to keep some commercial routes operating runs out in April. I assume we will see a competitive tender of these routes unless bos decide to go full commercial again?
54 Yeovil to Taunton
58/58a Yeovil to wincanton
28 Taunton to minehead
25 Taunton to Dulverton .

The 54 strikes me as as a route that Stagecoach would be very happy to take over if they could. IMO it should have always stayed hourly

The 28 and 25 Stagecoach could be interested as well, and for the 25 I honeslty wouldn't be suprised if First did want to bin it

58/58a however not too sure how that would work unless First withdraw from Yeovil and Stagecoach takes over which is something I wouldn't be too sure about as it would be a lot of money for such a small operation.

If they are going after tendered work then I wonder if they would be interested in the 29 and the 99 when they come up for tender. Of course, Stagecoach have done the 99 before. Remember when that was an hourly route? How times change!

 

[Goldfish62]

The 54 strikes me as as a route that Stagecoach would be very happy to take over if they could. IMO it should have always stayed hourly

The 28 and 25 Stagecoach could be interested as well, and for the 25 I honeslty wouldn't be suprised if First did want to bin it

58/58a however not too sure how that would work unless First withdraw from Yeovil and Stagecoach takes over which is something I wouldn't be too sure about as it would be a lot of money for such a small operation.

If they are going after tendered work then I wonder if they would be interested in the 29 and the 99 when they come up for tender. Of course, Stagecoach have done the 99 before. Remember when that was an hourly route? How times change!

All assuming that it wasn't just First conducting an opportunistic raid on BSIP+ funding which they didn't really need. But perhaps that's me being overly cynical...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The release to staff mentions working with the hospital to make the service more attractive for staff and visitors to the hospital. In Plymouth and Exeter there are offers for NHS staff available. I’d expect something in Taunton too.
Exeter NHS staff have a unique link to buy discounted tickets on the app.
Plymouth NHS staff travel free of charge on presentation of NHS staff ID between the George park and ride and Derriford. I believe they also have a unique link to get discounted fares on the app

It's not uncommon around the country.

Just find that given its history and my experience of its loadings, the use of deckers is a bit optimistic.

The 54 strikes me as as a route that Stagecoach would be very happy to take over if they could. IMO it should have always stayed hourly

The 28 and 25 Stagecoach could be interested as well, and for the 25 I honeslty wouldn't be suprised if First did want to bin it

58/58a however not too sure how that would work unless First withdraw from Yeovil and Stagecoach takes over which is something I wouldn't be too sure about as it would be a lot of money for such a small operation.

If they are going after tendered work then I wonder if they would be interested in the 29 and the 99 when they come up for tender. Of course, Stagecoach have done the 99 before. Remember when that was an hourly route? How times change!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It may well be (as @Goldfish62 mentions) that they were simply looking to access BSIP+ funds. Not having the 54, 28 and 25 would be catastrophic for Taunton depot, and you'd see Hamilton Road with houses on it soon enough but we're not there yet. IF, and it's a big if, First elected to pack up, the 58 would probably be more likely to go to South West Coaches.

The 99 to Chard (and to Yeovil) was hourly but only because Somerset County Council were paying for it!

 

[Lynford1976]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It may well be (as @Goldfish62 mentions) that they were simply looking to access BSIP+ funds. Not having the 54, 28 and 25 would be catastrophic for Taunton depot, and you'd see Hamilton Road with houses on it soon enough but we're not there yet. IF, and it's a big if, First elected to pack up, the 58 would probably be more likely to go to South West Coaches.

Would agree about the 58 going to South West Coaches, they also have operating bases at both ends of the route.

Any thoughts on who would take over Dorset route CR4?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would agree about the 58 going to South West Coaches, they also have operating bases at both ends of the route.

Any thoughts on who would take over Dorset route CR4?

Well, SWC did operate it once before?

 

[henairs]

Apart from specifying seats in the finest panda fur, the council can have what it likes if it's prepared to pay! However, fair to say that loadings don't justify it.

Cooks used Solos, Webberbus used Solos, and First used short Streetlites, and it's not as if Somerset Council has money to burn on specifying larger vehicles than required. If someone has specified deckers, they're either optimistic or inept.

Webbers had some new 60 plate Optare Versa’s in Flyer livery as I recall with TTs to match.

 

[Lynford1976]

Well, SWC did operate it once before?

True. I wouldn't discount Damory (Go South Coast) either.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

True. I wouldn't discount Damory (Go South Coast) either.

Though arguably, they are at the "wrong end" of the service. Again, Damory are another former operator

Webbers had some new 60 plate Optare Versa’s in Flyer livery as I recall with TTs to match.

Yeah, I'd forgotten that Webberbus had Versas on there. Again, seems like an eternity ago. Might add that First also used long Streetlites (diverted from Scotland?) when they got the contract from Webberbus.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Though arguably, they are at the "wrong end" of the service. Again, Damory are another former operator

I wouldn't say they are. I think the BoS timetable was designed because it is worked from Yeovil, so some journeys were probably only added in for positioning purposes (just look at the 0600 from Yeovil and 1940 from Blandford).

I do believe the tenders are for a minimum specification, the operator can tweak it to suit as long as all required movements are catered for (principally school routes). That's what happened with some of the services South West Coaches run/ran - they added in Saturday journeys as a commercial incentive, but didn't work out so have since been withdrawn.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn't say they are. I think the BoS timetable was designed because it is worked from Yeovil, so some journeys were probably only added in for positioning purposes (just look at the 0600 from Yeovil and 1940 from Blandford).

I do believe the tenders are for a minimum specification, the operator can tweak it to suit as long as all required movements are catered for (principally school routes). That's what happened with some of the services South West Coaches run/ran - they added in Saturday journeys as a commercial incentive, but didn't work out so have since been withdrawn.

That's a fair comment. Those journeys are placement ones and it probably suited having a depot at Henstridge (as Damory had) or nearby (did Bere Regis have something like Hazelbury Bryan?) as there are journeys out of both Yeovil and Blandford, so yeah, Damory probably are as well placed to pick them up as anyone.

 

[Goldfish62]

Unconfirmed reports of 30 B9TLs heading to Cornwall from Oldham at the end of March to displace most of the B7TLs. Unfortunately they're early examples no younger than the B7TLs were when they arrived in Cornwall. Also, most are in Olympia livery and it remains to be seen whether they'll be repainted.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unconfirmed reports of 30 B9TLs heading to Cornwall from Oldham at the end of March to displace most of the B7TLs. Unfortunately they're early examples no younger than the B7TLs were when they arrived in Cornwall. Also, most are in Olympia livery and it remains to be seen whether they'll be repainted.

I assume that will help the purge of B7TLs from First, and at 15/16 years, have little book value left on them. The real downside is that I think they've never had any internal refurb (unless someone can clarify); quite a number of the B7TLs that arrived in 2020 had been refurbished in Glasgow and Bristol and those that hadn't, were retrimmed IIRC.