Fixed Penalty Notice

[fowler9]

I got a fixed penalty notice of £80 this morning for dropping a cigarette end outside West Allerton Station. I paid it it right away as I was bang to rights. I got back to West Allerton station 7 hours later and the cigarette end was still there on the pavement. If you walk a bit further down towards South Parkway station half of Long Lane has been closed off for the last week while they put mini pavements on the grass verges on the central reservation.

Now as I said hands up I was bang to rights but do Liverpool City Council have nothing better to do than fine me whilst putting useless pavements on central reservations on the day I am going to vote for the regional mayor?

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, I don't quite understand what the link between the two is?

 

[fowler9]

Sorry, I don't quite understand what the link between the two is?

The council have gone hell for leather getting fixed penalty notices against people, mostly focusing on people smoking outside stations. At the same time they have blown a fortune making these weird mini pavements along a dual carriageway called Long Lane.

Whilst I hold my hands up that I was caught littering bang to rights I really don't know what their budget policy is at the minute. Whilst I was a naughty boy West Allerton Station is not a litter black spot and my dog end was still outside the station hours after I got fined for it.

Just to cap it off I am meant to vote for a Liverpool Mayor today. I mean why? What are they going to do? Clamp down on litter outside West Allerton where apart from me it isn't really a problem.

 

[507021]

I'd rather the money spent on fining people for littering was spent on combating it or other areas which need some investment at the moment, not wasting money on things that aren't needed. Fair enough you owned up to it, I totally understand why you're frustrated by it mate.

What's more amusing to me is they haven't bothered to clean it up, pathetic really.

 

[fowler9]

I'd rather the money spent on fining people for littering was spent on combating it or other areas which need some investment at the moment, not wasting money on things that aren't needed. Fair enough you owned up to it, I totally understand why you're frustrated by it mate.

What's more amusing to me is they haven't bothered to clean it up, pathetic really.

You know mate hands up, I messed up. The daft thing being if I have a ciggy outside Lime Street I always use the bin. Its just bizarre where they chose to target. 7 hours later the only litter outside West Allerton was my dog end after they followed me on to the station and fined me for leaving it there.

 

[AlterEgo]

It says something about modern life that they probably have the power to fine you but not to make you pick the fag end up.

 

[507021]

You know mate hands up, I messed up. The daft thing being if I have a ciggy outside Lime Street I always use the bin. Its just bizarre where they chose to target. 7 hours later the only litter outside West Allerton was my dog end after they followed me on to the station and fined me for leaving it there.

I totally understand that mate, it was a bizarre choice of target, especially as it's one of the quieter stations on the City Line. I totally agree people should be fined for littering, but it doesn't really give me much confidence the revenue gained from issuing fines is used beneficially when the council are wasting it on vanity projects such as the one you've described.

 

[Cowley]

How much was left on it when you got back? You could have just said you'd just chipped it for later.
I'm sure there wasn't a sign saying 'No cigarette parking'? That's being environmentally friendly that is.

 

[fowler9]

How much was left on it when you got back? You could have just said you'd just chipped it for later.
I'm sure there wasn't a sign saying 'No cigarette parking'? That's being environmentally friendly that is.

You know what mate I told all my mates afterwards just to say don't mess up like I did. One of them asked if the people giving out the fines picked up the litter so as I said I made a point of checking. No they didn't.

 

[tony_mac]

they aren't council employees, and there have been complaints about them.

The company gets half of the ticket money, so they only have to issue a small number every day to pay their way (although obviously more is better to them).

 

[Antman]

they aren't council employees, and there have been complaints about them.

The company gets half of the ticket money, so they only have to issue a small number every day to pay their way (although obviously more is better to them).

Numerous complaints about them and probably only a matter of time before the practice is outlawed like wheel-clamping was?

 

[anti-pacer]

Cigarette littering is an odd one. Many people who wouldn't dream of dropping litter do drop cigarette ends. It's still litter and an easy target for enforcement officers as it's the most commonly dropped item of litter, but by far one of the smallest.

I'm glad you admit you were wrong as not many would, and I fully support FPN's for littering. However, the money should then be spent on employing more enforcement officers. The more people who are caught, the quicker this country will be cleaned up.

In Wakefield I have witnessed enforcement officers watching a group of youths casually drop their fast food wrappers. They did nothing! Bins in Wakefield city centre's main shopping precinct are so plentiful, the place should be spotless, but it is generally littered. Why? A combination of an inept council and a population who think the sun shines out of Yorkshire's backside, but not enough to keep it clean.

You could fly-tip in front of our council and you'd get away with it. Well done Liverpool for acting, but they need to spend the money in keeping the place clean.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Well done Liverpool for acting, but they need to spend the money in keeping the place clean.

Trouble is, the fine doesn't actually deal with the litter. It's the same up here, the Litter Gestapo will hide around the corner of Central Station to fine all the tourists for dropping cigarette butts, but then they just leave the cigarette butt there.

I'm glad to see that they're clamping down on littering, it's a filthy habit, but the fines do nothing apart from make money to the enforcement company. Nobody actually picks up the sodding litter.

 

[anti-pacer]

Trouble is, the fine doesn't actually deal with the litter. It's the same up here, the Litter Gestapo will hide around the corner of Central Station to fine all the tourists for dropping cigarette butts, but then they just leave the cigarette butt there.

I'm glad to see that they're clamping down on littering, it's a filthy habit, but the fines do nothing apart from make money to the enforcement company. Nobody actually picks up the sodding litter.

Newcastle is laughable. When I was last there the city centre was filthy, especially around the station. What was ironic is that inside the station was a stall all about a group who were called "NE1 ....something or other". A group that reported littering to be cleaned up amongst other things. I asked if they were aware of the situation outside the very station they were in, and they weren't. I took one to see it and they were pretty embarrassed.

As much as I love Newcastle and I think it's an amazing city, parts of it are filthy. I remember being on a rail replacement coach from there to Edinburgh, going up Westgate and West Roads. Litter and fly-tipping everywhere. People behind me on the coach commented "Well looked after, Newcastle, isn't it". And the Western Bypass is a disgrace!

It's about time councils got a grip on this and started investing money into cleaning their areas up. Hit people where it hurts by all means, but put the money back into cleaning up and more enforcement.

 

[rg177]

Newcastle, while usually okay Monday to Thursday, is an utter tip over the weekends when you have people on nights out.

I usually catch pre 6am departures off Newcastle Central on a Saturday morning and the streets leading to the station are full of kebab wrappers, McDonald's packaging and the like.

Sent from my LG-K350 using Tapatalk

 

[Antman]

Trouble is, the fine doesn't actually deal with the litter. It's the same up here, the Litter Gestapo will hide around the corner of Central Station to fine all the tourists for dropping cigarette butts, but then they just leave the cigarette butt there.

I'm glad to see that they're clamping down on littering, it's a filthy habit, but the fines do nothing apart from make money to the enforcement company. Nobody actually picks up the sodding litter.

I think that is actually the whole idea!

 

[Antman]

In Wakefield I have witnessed enforcement officers watching a group of youths casually drop their fast food wrappers. They did nothing!

.

And there lays the problem with private contractors doing law enforcement, they probably knew that all they would get from the youths would be a load of mouth, people who are generally law abiding are a far more lucrative target!

 

[anti-pacer]

And there lays the problem with private contractors doing law enforcement, they probably knew that all they would get from the youths would be a load of mouth, people who are generally law abiding are a far more lucrative target!

I believe the ones in Wakefield are council employees. Leeds uses a private company and gets results.

The bottom line is though, at least some of the money should be pumped back into that part of council services.

 

[anti-pacer]

Newcastle, while usually okay Monday to Thursday, is an utter tip over the weekends when you have people on nights out.

I usually catch pre 6am departures off Newcastle Central on a Saturday morning and the streets leading to the station are full of kebab wrappers, McDonald's packaging and the like.

Sent from my LG-K350 using Tapatalk

Apparently Newcastle City Council stopped all night street cleaning. It was on a TV series, "Life of Grime" I believe.

I'll say one thing about Wakefield, the streets are spotless after Friday and Saturday nights, even at 6am.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Apparently Newcastle City Council stopped all night street cleaning.

The council have stopped lots of things. Cleanliness used to be good up here, the Council were hot on street sweeping, we used to get the paths and roads swept at least 1-2 times a week even in our suburb out in the edge. As you say, they used to have the path sweeper machines out all night on Fridays and Saturdays.

Their excuse is government cuts. I don't agree, we never had these issues when the Lib Dems were in charge, it only ever gets like this when Labour are in.

The NE1 branded people are not council employees, they're part of the NE1 business district improvement company which all businesses contribute towards. They do some street cleaning, they have rapid response teams to clear vomit up in particular. But businesses- who pay for NE1 by a levy on top of their normal business rates- are not happy at having to pay the council to do their job and then pay again to have it done properly.

My view is that the Litter Gestapo are a good thing, but- and this is a huge but- they should only be allowed to keep their cut of the fine if they also pick up the bloody litter.

 

[fowler9]

I'm not defending myself at all here because what I did was indefensible, I littered, I paid the fine, but if they really wanted to solve a litter problem they should head down to by where I work in Garston. The pavements have a large amount of sweet and crisp wrappers and empty energy drink cans but worst of all dog poo bags where the excrement has been put in a bag and then hung off the fences. Poo baubles my exes dad used to call them. Ha ha.

 

[anti-pacer]

I'm not talking about cigarette butts but I definitely think litter is worse in the Northern regions than anywhere else.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

If we got caught dropping litter at school we had to stay behind for at least an hour, picking up litter from the playground or playing fields and if there was not much litter there, the master supervising used to empty a couple of bins before hand. We also had to write out lines or do a long essay about it being wrong to litter.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I definitely think litter is worse in the Northern regions than anywhere else.

Nah, some of the worst littering I've ever seen was on Wembley High Road, and on a normal weekday, not on an event day at the stadium.

I do believe in the "broken windows" idea. With less money, it's harder to keep things maintained. As things get maintained to a lower standard, people don't look after things so much, and so the problem gets worse. Northern councils have less money than southern ones.

Some people are just scruffy gits who'd drop litter regardless, but generally people won't litter if there isn't any litter around. But if there's a big pile of litter, or, as in Newcastle, the litter bins are overflowing, then they're more likely to litter.

 

[anti-pacer]

Nah, some of the worst littering I've ever seen was on Wembley High Road, and on a normal weekday, not on an event day at the stadium.

I do believe in the "broken windows" idea. With less money, it's harder to keep things maintained. As things get maintained to a lower standard, people don't look after things so much, and so the problem gets worse. Northern councils have less money than southern ones.

Some people are just scruffy gits who'd drop litter regardless, but generally people won't litter if there isn't any litter around. But if there's a big pile of litter, or, as in Newcastle, the litter bins are overflowing, then they're more likely to litter.

I think you're actually spot on!

 

[takno]

I don't understand. You were caught littering, which you admit was indefensible, but you then didn't pick up the litter you were caught dropping and are now annoyed that nobody else has done it for you?

 

[Clip]

The council have stopped lots of things. Cleanliness used to be good up here, the Council were hot on street sweeping, we used to get the paths and roads swept at least 1-2 times a week even in our suburb out in the edge. As you say, they used to have the path sweeper machines out all night on Fridays and Saturdays.

Their excuse is government cuts. I don't agree, we never had these issues when the Lib Dems were in charge, it only ever gets like this when Labour are in.

Indeed - the cuts have been so bad that local baths have shut down and the dear leaders could still find themselves some more money for their paypackets,.

When you get paid more than the PM of a whole country then theres something wrong

 

[507021]

I don't understand. You were caught littering, which you admit was indefensible, but you then didn't pick up the litter you were caught dropping and are now annoyed that nobody else has done it for you?

What's the point in picking it up after he's been fined?

 

[takno]

What's the point in picking it up after he's been fined?

He's been fined for doing the wrong thing, and has an opportunity to make amends. The fine isn't a payment for being caught, and it's definitely not a payment for someone else to pick it up for you.

 

[Gemz91]

I saw a show a couple of years ago on TV, where they covered these law enforcement types. One of the law enforces was training a new girl up on litter fines. He basically spent all his day walking round looking for people smoking, watched them until they disposed of their tab ends. He said it's almost guaranteed that they'll drop them on the floor so their the best people to watch. basically said smokers are the easy targets.