Flight late arriving - advanced ticket

[All Line Rover]

If they arrive with Virgin then I would imagine more people going on LU than hopping across to Marylebone and taking Chiltern. Either way, one of the two will be involved.

True, but while they're off to Wembley, I'm off to South Kensington.

 

[Flamingo]

The worst is working a late Cardiff when Swansea are playing in London. You end up with all the Swansea fans who were too drunk or too stupid to catch the last Swansea, and spend the time listening to them whinging, and demanding taxi's.

The discussions about the Advance tickets that they missed can get very heated. It's always someone else's fault that they missed the train. And usually the fault of FGW for not holding the train as "everybody knows the game went to extra time".

 

[bb21]

The discussions about the Advance tickets that they missed can get very heated. It's always someone else's fault that they missed the train. And usually the fault of FGW for not holding the train as "everybody knows the game went to extra time".

Next time tell them it's their players' fault for not being good enough to beat the opponents over 90 minutes.

 

[Flamingo]

One of the guys found an envelope on a train last week, it had a Swansea City season ticket in it.

Lucky git, I need an envelope!

 

[bb21]

One of the guys found an envelope on a train last week, it had a Swansea City season ticket in it.

Lucky git, I need an envelope!

Surely it would then be reported lost and subsequently cancelled.

 

[Flamingo]

Surely it would then be reported lost and subsequently cancelled.

It's a joke...

 

[mickey]

Of course if you are late for a flight due to a late train you're unlikely to get much change out of the airline either.

Sorry for hijacking a slightly old thread, but it's perhaps helpful to point out that most travel insurance policies do cover 'failure of public transport to run to a scheduled timetable' if evidence is provided. This almost always applies to outward sectors; return sectors often cover the whole journey being made, i.e. usually to your home, though do check for exclusions. If travelling alone, however, the excess is likely to eat heavily into any payout.

This sort of thing tends to get me steamed up. By travelling on a later train you are not actually costing the TOC any money. If the reason you are late is beyond your control (not due to you sleeping through your alarm) then you shouldn't be penalised. All you should have to do is provide evidence that your flight was delayed.

Seats on travel services are known as 'perishable goods', which means that if it's not filled at the point of departure it's lost forever, as is the revenue that could come from it. Space on a later service could be filled by another paying passenger (even if it's unlikely), but the main reason for the lack of flexibility comes down to simple (sic) revenue management, by which companies try to match extra passengers to otherwise empty space by offering special deals to entice people who wouldn't pay the normal higher prices. People take them up knowing the restrictions but to work they rely on the company enforcing them - if you knew you'd be allowed on anyway you wouldn't think twice about buying the cheaper ticket. RM isn't perfect, but it does work.

Incidentally, to the OP try looking at the arrivals list for a similar day. If there's not much activity around the time you land you should be ok with 1.5 hours. Otherwise leave at least 2. (I'm assuming it's Ryanair, who are mostly on time. If it's someone else I'd definitely go for the later one.)

The other way I used to do it was to get an AP a couple of hours after the plane is scheduled to land, then also get another, usually dirt cheap, AP or National Express funfare for the last departure of the day, just to be safe.

Now that's a good idea!

 

[BestWestern]

Where does it end though? Should we have semi-flexible Advance tickets for football matches, in case they overrun or are cancelled?

In short, no! What should happen is that every ticket sold to a football match should include a seat on a coach chartered and paid for by the club. The inevitable police escort can then be drawn from local bobbies rather than hard-pressed BTP, and again can be paid for entirely by the club. The police decide when an escort is needed and to what extent, and if the club can't/won't stump up then the coach drivers get a very short shift and the fans go home again very dissapointed.

The vast majority of the fans/idiots would then have no requirement to go anywhere near a train or railway station, and both staff and decent members of travelling public would then be afforded the luxury of a civilised environment rather than the zoo which turns up without warning most saturdays.

In all seriousness, I don't feel that allowances should be made for football fans. Whilst many might be perfectly fine, I'm afraid those who are moronic beyond any sensible belief lead them all to be considered idiots, and thus they sadly need to be treated as such. The day that the vast majority of the population stop having to share the burden of the saturday leisure activities of a tiny minority is the day that our railways, as well as many towns in general on match days, become a better place better for everyone. Grrr b*st*rds....

 

[MikeWh]

I'd better steer clear of you in that case ...

 

[Flamingo]

The vast majority of the fans/idiots would then have no requirement to go anywhere near a train or railway station, and both staff and decent members of travelling public would then be afforded the luxury of a civilised environment rather than the zoo which turns up without warning most saturdays.

In all seriousness, I don't feel that allowances should be made for football fans. Whilst many might be perfectly fine, I'm afraid those who are moronic beyond any sensible belief lead them all to be considered idiots, and thus they sadly need to be treated as such. The day that the vast majority of the population stop having to share the burden of the saturday leisure activities of a tiny minority is the day that our railways, as well as many towns in general on match days, become a better place better for everyone. Grrr b*st*rds....

What he said, I'm afraid. I know staff who won't work Saturday evenings in the football season because of the hassle involved. I have had late trains that have had to be terminated in the middle of the journey as the delays caused by the guys "just havin a larf" have resulted in us failing to get through a part of track before it was closed for engineering works.

The really annoying thing about this is that the ringleaders of the trouble always seem to be 40+ years of age, definitely old enough to know better and be able to hold their drink, and well aware of what they are doing. They are usually arrogant and aggressive until it is obvious that they are not getting any further, then it's "I'm the victim officer, we were all-right until this train guard stuck his nose in - no, we didn't break that "whatever", it was like that when we got here" etc, and sometimes have the cheek to follow it up with a letter to Customer Services complaining about the train-crew.

I have NEVER regretted calling police to a train and having football fans removed, I have often regretted not jumping on them hard at the beginning of the journey, despite the possible delays.

I'm afraid that the word SCUM is not strong enough to describe them. And I don't hold with "the minority ruin it for the majority" view either, as in my experience, the majority are a pain in the arrse.

 

[MikeWh]

... And I don't hold with "the minority ruin it for the majority" view either, as in my experience, the majority are a pain in the arrse.

Hmmmm. Am I wanted on this forum? Serious question!

 

[Flamingo]

Hmmmm. Am I wanted on this forum? Serious question!

Why would you not be wanted?

 

[John @ home]

Why would you not be wanted?

I think it appears to MikeWh that the majority of people travelling by train to football matches are not welcome by some rail staff on this forum. I think posts #98 and #100 give him good cause for concern.

 

[Flamingo]

I think it appears to MikeWh that the majority of people travelling by train to football matches are not welcome by some rail staff on this forum. I think posts #98 and #100 give him good cause for concern.

Football fans, along with all other passengers, are welcome if they a. have a valid ticket for their journey and b. behave in a manner that does not cause disturbance, discomfort, or concern to other fare-paying passengers.

Unfortunately, a large number of football fans don't purchase the correct ticket for their journey, but the cheapest combination of Advance / split / group tickets that will get them through a barrier, and rely on an intimidating group presence when any ticket irregularities are pointed out to them.

Their behaviour and general manner is also very disruptive and frightening to a lot of passengers. Excuses for it are no better than trying to excuse the riots that have happened, and the behaviour is based on the same attitude - no awareness of responsibilities, and an expectation that their behaviour will have no consequences.

I work trains on Saturdays throughout the year, and the Saturday evening trains during the football season (or weekday evening trains when there has been football on in London) can be indescribable. They are a totally different beast in the off season.

If that is an inconvenient truth, well I don't apologise for it. If stating it makes anybody feel unwelcome, well, I refer them to the first sentence of this post, and to summarise it, if they can behave, they are welcome, if they can't, they can sod off and walk as far as I am concerned. Other passengers have a right to travel in peace, and I have a right to do my job without threats or violence being directed at me.

 

[junglejames]

And when several hundred international airlines and ATOC can come to an agreement, I'm sure that will happen.

I'm sure it would have to be reciprocal, with passengers who are on delayed trains allowed to jump on the next flight.

I would not like to be the person involved in trying to negotiate it. I would say that if you could get agreement, then you would qualify for something pretty senior in the UN!

But you dont need anything reciprocal. Why cant the railways show that they are better than the airlines? If it already happens with TPE at Manchester, it can easily happen at any airport with any operator.
Just get the airlines to stamp a ticket if you have been on a late flight. Im sure airlines can manage that. Let the railways be the good guys for a change.

Of course, it will never happen. Because you have to get ATOC and all the TOCs to agree. Just as difficult as getting several hundred international airlines to agree!! Wont happen until we get BR back, and with decent railway managers.

 

[Flamingo]

Wont happen until we get BR back, and with decent railway managers.

Management is probably as good as it will get, BR is not coming back.

 

[455driver]

I once missed a train because the some idiot collecting the houshold refuse pressed the empty button right outside my house. Result: I could not get the car off the drive for several hours while an army of workers cleaned the street.

Was it my fault? No. Can I prove the delay easily? No. Would I expect the railways to make allowance for me? No.

Why didnt you get a taxi and claim the money back off the council?

 

[junglejames]

Football fans, along with all other passengers, are welcome if they a. have a valid ticket for their journey and b. behave in a manner that does not cause disturbance, discomfort, or concern to other fare-paying passengers.

Unfortunately, a large number of football fans don't purchase the correct ticket for their journey, but the cheapest combination of Advance / split / group tickets that will get them through a barrier, and rely on an intimidating group presence when any ticket irregularities are pointed out to them.

Their behaviour and general manner is also very disruptive and frightening to a lot of passengers. Excuses for it are no better than trying to excuse the riots that have happened, and the behaviour is based on the same attitude - no awareness of responsibilities, and an expectation that their behaviour will have no consequences.

I work trains on Saturdays throughout the year, and the Saturday evening trains during the football season (or weekday evening trains when there has been football on in London) can be indescribable. They are a totally different beast in the off season.

If that is an inconvenient truth, well I don't apologise for it. If stating it makes anybody feel unwelcome, well, I refer them to the first sentence of this post, and to summarise it, if they can behave, they are welcome, if they can't, they can sod off and walk as far as I am concerned. Other passengers have a right to travel in peace, and I have a right to do my job without threats or violence being directed at me.

Being a football fan myself. Whilst the original posts may have sounded harsh, Flamingo is totally right. I behave myself, keep myself to myself, and the only giveaway is the football top im wearing. If others want to mess about and be a nuisance, then I dont want them onboard either.
As long as your a well behaved football fan, there is no need to be offended by what Flamingo said.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Management is probably as good as it will get, BR is not coming back.

Oh i know it isnt. But until we have one railway working together (ie BR) we are not going to see joined up thinking on the scale wanted.

 

[Roylang]

Why didnt you get a taxi and claim the money back off the council?

Taxi from where I lived back then would have cost about £70 (and we are talking a good few years ago). As somebody who at that time earned peanuts, even paying it before claiming it back would be difficult, then there is the risk the council say no.

Roy

 

[Flamingo]

Being a football fan myself. Whilst the original posts may have sounded harsh, Flamingo is totally right. I behave myself, keep myself to myself, and the only giveaway is the football top im wearing. If others want to mess about and be a nuisance, then I dont want them onboard either.
As long as your a well behaved football fan, there is no need to be offended by what Flamingo said.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Oh i know it isnt. But until we have one railway working together (ie BR) we are not going to see joined up thinking on the scale wanted.

Thanks!

 

[Old Timer]

but they don't charge you for an entirely new ticket.

That's not quite correct.

There are broadly three types of airline ticket, Fully flexible, flexible, and non flexible.

Changes to non-flexible are not permitted for any reason, and any need to change flights will result in the ticket being null and void and a new ticket needed.

Airlines will always charge an admin fee or an upgrade to the next suitable ticket, irrespective of couse unless they have an arrangement with the airline with whom you flew and were delayed.

Most of the arguments made here in respect of Railway tickets will result in an impassive stance by check in staff and after a (short) period of ranting removal from the airline area. Many airlines then automatically blacklist - not only from them but also their code share partners.

 

[Flamingo]

Most of the arguments made here in respect of Railway tickets will result in an impassive stance by check in staff and after a (short) period of ranting removal from the airline area. Many airlines then automatically blacklist - not only from them but also their code share partners.

The old "I'll never travel with you again!" line can be countered with "Correct, you won't"

Oh how I would love to be able to say that!

 

[snail]

it's perhaps helpful to point out that most travel insurance policies do cover 'failure of public transport to run to a scheduled timetable' if evidence is provided.

That's not what my annual travel policy says:

As a result of public-transport services failing (due to poor weather conditions, a strike, industrial action or a mechanical breakdown) or the vehicle you are travelling in being involved in an accident or having a mechanical breakdown.

Simple scheduled delays aren't covered unless they can be tied to a specific, insured cause. I doubt it would cover paying for a train ticket if my plane home is late for reasons other than weather or breakdown, and as you say the excess would wipe out most or all of the benefit anyway.

 

[island]

Football fans, along with all other passengers, are welcome if they a. have a valid ticket for their journey and b. behave in a manner that does not cause disturbance, discomfort, or concern to other fare-paying passengers.

Unfortunately, a large number of football fans don't purchase the correct ticket for their journey, but the cheapest combination of Advance / split / group tickets that will get them through a barrier, and rely on an intimidating group presence when any ticket irregularities are pointed out to them.

Bet you don't have that problem with rugby fans!

 

[Flamingo]

Bet you don't have that problem with rugby fans!

Actually, I have had it as well, but not as much or as generalised as soccer fans (until you get into Wales, where I swear the supporters of the over 80's crown green bowling team would manage to be a pain in the arrse!).

Even had a mini riot on my train a few months ago from cricket fans!

 

[Old Timer]

The old "I'll never travel with you again!" line can be countered with "Correct, you won't"

Oh how I would love to be able to say that!

I recently travelled by a Stena Line ship.

A frequent card traveller (Gold) had failed to book a seat in the premier class.

This comes free to them with the card status but everyone else pays.

Anyway this guy had not booked a seat and the premier lounge was fully booked. When told this he started to make an enormous fuss about being refused access to the premier lounge. He was demanding this and that and slagging the lounge staff off something rotten. He made such a fuss that the lounge staff decided NOT to let him enter even though it turned out later that they could have made a space for him.

He stood outside the lounge access door and basically berated the stewardess every time she came out of the lounge, or someone entering let him in, and he argued vehemently with increasingly senior members of the customer services team outside when not doing this. The premise being that he was "entitled" to the lounge access irrespective of whether it was full or not by virtue of being a Gold Card holder - even though access is restricted by capacity and everyone must book even Gold Card holders.

Anyway, my lady travelling companion having listenened to this guy berating the young girl went up to this chap and told him to leave her alone and to stop as he was now disturbing other lounge passengers - much to the pleasure of the Customer Services Manager who by now had been summoned along with the Chief Purser.

On hearing this guy stating that he was going to complain about the attitude of the staff and effectively suggesting that she should not become involved, she turned to the Chief Purser and requested that the man be removed for causing a disturbance, and that SHE would be contacting Stena Line to complain about the man, demanding his name from him by then, about his aggressive and unwarrranted behaviour and his harrassment of a young girl steward.

The Chier Purser took her to one side and siad, "Thank you madam, It would be very helpful if we can take your details as an independent witness - and by the way said gentleman has now been completely permanently excluded from all Stena Line ships as of now"

Some organisations do have the balls to deal with agressive passengers.

 

[AlterEgo]

A good Franchise Manager will have the guts to deal with similar situations...

 

[Flamingo]

Some organisations do have the balls to deal with agressive passengers.

Given that we are lone workers, sometimes placed in positions of extreme danger by aggressive passengers, the attitude of TOC's, which in my experience is to issue a grovelling apology first and then try and find some way to make it the staffs fault, is nothing short of disgraceful.

 

[Old Timer]

Given that we are lone workers, sometimes placed in positions of extreme danger by aggressive passengers, the attitude of TOC's, which in my experience is to issue a grovelling apology first and then try and find some way to make it the staffs fault, is nothing short of disgraceful.

Twas generally always almost the case under BR too I am afraid.

Unlike today, the sewer dwelling scum that go under the title of journalists were always on the lookout to have a crack at a Nationalised industry and BR was right up there.

I personally have known an Area Manager to apologise publicly to the media over an incident - the usual disabled, badly treated, you know the vein - before the outcome of the investigation which actually resulted in the person concerned being Prosecuted for public order and drunkeness offences.

Naturally the scum never published that bit.

As a Manager I operated an absolutely no tolerance policy when it came to abuse or agressive behaviour against my staff, helped by very good relationships with both the Civil and the BT Police. Its amazing what goodwill can be generated by encouraging them to call in for a cup of tea when around the station.

 

[Flamingo]

Twas generally always almost the case under BR too I am afraid.

Unlike today, the sewer dwelling scum that go under the title of journalists were always on the lookout to have a crack at a Nationalised industry and BR was right up there.

I personally have known an Area Manager to apologise publicly to the media over an incident - the usual disabled, badly treated, you know the vein - before the outcome of the investigation which actually resulted in the person concerned being Prosecuted for public order and drunkeness offences.

Naturally the scum never published that bit.

As a Manager I operated an absolutely no tolerance policy when it came to abuse or agressive behaviour against my staff, helped by very good relationships with both the Civil and the BT Police. Its amazing what goodwill can be generated by encouraging them to call in for a cup of tea when around the station.

Oh well, it's not just me then