Flyer Talk Forums - A Bit Elitist?

[Butts]

As this is primarily a Rail Based Forum not sure if many people also frequent the above - particularly the BA dedicated section.

There are some very knowledgeable people on there who offer excellent advice in relation to delays, compensation, cancellations and other solutions to problems you may encounter.

When it comes to more general topics relating to BA I can't help but feel that a lot of contributors spend very little time "the wrong side of the curtain" and have little understanding of the BA experience out with the realm of Business Class, Lounges and all the other perks associated with their status.

 

[AlterEgo]

If anyone ever doubts that Britain is a class-based society I always direct them to the BA forums, a swirling tornado of angsty middle class nonsense.

It is hilarious to read some of the contributions and more so when you realise many of these people are in responsible jobs earning £100K+ a year. Genuinely pathetic men - and it is mostly men!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I love reading that forum, the DYKWIA thread is hilarious. And quite a few other threads, where they’re whingeing about boarding groups at the gate, probably belong in a DYKWIA thread too.

I find the idea of a “tier point run” unfathomable, but I also worry that if I ever had the chance of getting close to a gold card I’d probably do the same!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I love reading that forum, the DYKWIA thread is hilarious. And quite a few other threads, where they’re whingeing about boarding groups at the gate, probably belong in a DYKWIA thread too.

I find the idea of a “tier point run” unfathomable, but I also worry that if I ever had the chance of getting close to a gold card I’d probably do the same!

Given that I often travel by train for the simple reason of travelling by train, if I enjoyed air travel as much (as many do) why wouldn't I, given the significant additional benefits?

(Actually to be fair, if reasonably priced walk up air fares were a thing I probably would, on some random Saturdays, go for a flight somewhere for no particular reason).

 

[Butts]

Some poor sucker is getting a panning on there about the 10g Pretzels being BA's definition of a snack.

You can almost feel the "let them eat cake" vibes emanating from behind the curtain

 

[nlogax]

I've done a BA tier point run or two and have previously asked for advice on FT while scouting for good routes (yes, having fully read the FAQ). The responses I received ranged from extremely helpful to 'good god man, don't you know anything?'. These days I stick to reading the forum for laughs. Many of the people who post there are truly from a different planet.

 

[cactustwirly]

It is very good if you gloss over the poncyness, some very informative threads about the fleet, best hotels around Heathrow and advice during disruption.
Some it is very similar to this thread when people moan about LNER or Avantis first class service for example

 

[bob007]

The BA forum is such an interesting glimpse in to modern British society. The smug superiority that should have gone away when America told us our empire days were over, the self-righteousness of people because they live in the Home Counties and work in finance, the obsession with “British”, the displays of Stockholm syndrome etc

It’s funny that they have DYKWIA threads when the entire forum is that, just slightly less obvious

I would hate to travel frequently for work mid or long haul. But it makes people feel very very super important so each to their own

And to be fair the forum contain a wealth of information. London Airways isn’t much use to me but the other forums are very useful.

 

[Lost property]

As I've said before, Business Class pax can be very obnoxious...however....there are ways and means to deflate the precious ego's.

On the headset one day, get an urgent call to the cabin. Arrive to find "very annoyed " egoistic pax whose suit carrier clearly wasn't going to fit into the o'head lockers being placated as best she could by a C.C.member. First question it asked, was " are you the mechanic !" (this was not a good start, for him, referring to me as such) and then came the demands...seemingly, the suit cost more than my mortgage at the time, it was to be laid flat in the hold !, it must not be folded !. Before I can "engage in conversation". CC bless her intervenes and suggests we might miss the slot if I lingered.

Conveying the bag to the hold, flat as "sir" demanded, meant, sadly, it trailed along the ramp surface upon which are various fluids and substances....carefully placed in the hold, flat, but, in the crew baggage compartment....which meant, that, with the CDG baggage reclaim system, and a 45 min turn round, by the time "sir " had stood there, realised his bag was missing, contacted somebody etc, the aircraft and suit carrier would have left and be returning to the UK.

Happily, when I opened the hold, there was the carrier, flat, and exactly where I had left it....

 

[cactustwirly]

Given that I often travel by train for the simple reason of travelling by train, if I enjoyed air travel as much (as many do) why wouldn't I, given the significant additional benefits?

(Actually to be fair, if reasonably priced walk up air fares were a thing I probably would, on some random Saturdays, go for a flight somewhere for no particular reason).

I normally book fairly last minute, less than a month before departure and can find some decent prices.
Worth noting that BA have seriously changed their business model in the last 5 years. They are no longer a premium airline, but a Blue version of easyJet, although they are more generous with the cabin baggage. With this in mind they are actually quite competitive with easyJet from Gatwick

Some poor sucker is getting a panning on there about the 10g Pretzels being BA's definition of a snack.

You can almost feel the "let them eat cake" vibes emanating from behind the curtain

Just seen that was you!
Have to say I preferred the Tyrrels crisps, although I got a generously sized nutrigrain bar on yesterday's flight

I do fly BA for the convenience of Heathrow (although I was on Euroflyer yesterday) free cabin baggage and the comfortable seats on the older A320s and not for the free pretzels

 

[Sm5]

I try to avoid BA where ever possible.

it has a stigma of class about it, “little miss sussex” and. “Captain of Essex” “multi-shire industry tycoons“, from 1988 types which pervades until something goes wrong.. at which point any nationality but british becomes priority, and if your American the BA staff will fawn all over you.

I suspect the staff genuinely despise British passenger’s anyway, as they probably see the scabby worst of “one flight wonders” who paid. £25+ tax, and expect a business upgrade, plus lunch with the captain for it, 50 times on every flight.

its all part of that British “something for nothing culture”, supported by “just make sure the plastic facade looks good” culture we have.

Reminds me of a cheap bowling alley years ago, a guest had a headache, the manager offered an Aspirin, but put it on a plate with a napkin and charged £5 for it… so British, of course today that wouldn't happen, as an Ambulance would need to be summonsed to avoid any liability.

The gift of air travel is the ability to leave this island and see the real world, but I see someone is putting suggestions before government to impose a freedom of air travel restriction on British people, suggesting limiting us to 1 short haul flight a year.. of course this goonship has no chance of support, but how is it these people even exist to suggest it ?

 

[AlterEgo]

It is very good if you gloss over the poncyness, some very informative threads about the fleet, best hotels around Heathrow and advice during disruption.
Some it is very similar to this thread when people moan about LNER or Avantis first class service for example

Their worst crime is describing first class on trains as “F”.

This forum has its downsides but it is not poncey or populated by people who think they’re a superior class of being for travelling a lot.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I suppose a lot of it is the way airlines use their loyalty programmes to flatter an ego. The marketing bods do promote holding a gold card as making you a better sort of person, so it’s no wonder you get the DYKWIA sorts.

Given that I often travel by train for the simple reason of travelling by train, if I enjoyed air travel as much (as many do) why wouldn't I, given the significant additional benefits?

I fully understand the pleasure of travelling for the sake of travelling, there’s something wonderful about just seeing where your feet take you. I raise my eyebrows more when people aren’t travelling for the sake of travelling, they’re travelling to get a shiny gold card. I get it if you’re close to the prize, the status probably is worth a £100 return somewhere, but some people seem to just set off intending to get that gold card.

Worth noting that BA have seriously changed their business model in the last 5 years. They are no longer a premium airline, but a Blue version of easyJet, although they are more generous with the cabin baggage.

They’re more generous with the hold baggage too.

BA are actually pretty competitive these days. I’m off to Hamburg with a mate later in the month and BA Newcastle-Heathrow-Hamburg was cheaper than Ryanair Edinburgh-Hamburg or EasyJet Manchester-Hamburg, even before factoring in the train fare to those airports. Under £275 including a hold bag, can’t argue. EasyJet are charging me £110 with a bag each way just to get off the island!

 

[cactustwirly]

I suppose a lot of it is the way airlines use their loyalty programmes to flatter an ego. The marketing bods do promote holding a gold card as making you a better sort of person, so it’s no wonder you get the DYKWIA sorts.



I fully understand the pleasure of travelling for the sake of travelling, there’s something wonderful about just seeing where your feet take you. I raise my eyebrows more when people aren’t travelling for the sake of travelling, they’re travelling to get a shiny gold card. I get it if you’re close to the prize, the status probably is worth a £100 return somewhere, but some people seem to just set off intending to get that gold card.



They’re more generous with the hold baggage too.

BA are actually pretty competitive these days. I’m off to Hamburg with a mate later in the month and BA Newcastle-Heathrow-Hamburg was cheaper than Ryanair Edinburgh-Hamburg or EasyJet Manchester-Hamburg, even before factoring in the train fare to those airports. Under £275 including a hold bag, can’t argue. EasyJet are charging me £110 with a bag each way just to get off the island!

Indeed I find that after adding a large cabin bag, easyJet are actually more expensive.
My holiday to Verona was cheaper with BA than easyJet and I have a nicer hotel.
Although easyJet fly from the North Terminal at Gatwick which is arguably nicer, and the planes are a bit newer. The plane I got on Sunday looked a bit worse for wear, but the seats were very comfortable and the cabin crew were a lot better than easyJet

 

[BeijingDave]

As you can probably tell by my username, I am a Brit who works and lives abroad. Sometimes my work pays for my travel, sometimes I have to.

The fact is, Business Class travel is not unaffordable, even between China and the UK. However, it is a case of being savvy about it and booking early. I wouldn't travel only with BA - they're not very good. I look at Finnair via Helsinki, SAS via Copenhagen, Air France/KLM and even Chinese carriers.

If you're prepared to do that and book in advance with just some flexibility (not a full flex ticket), it is affordable.

However, I agree with what some say about the entitlement of some in the lounges and the Business Class cabin. In fact, I won't travel back with the Middle Eastern carriers, even if they have a nice price. It's the nouveau riche chavs (often flying to and from Dubai) who are the worst, in my experience, not the haughty 'old money' types.

 

[WestCoast]

However, I agree with what some say about the entitlement of some in the lounges and the Business Class cabin. In fact, I won't travel back with the Middle Eastern carriers, even if they have a nice price. It's the nouveau riche chavs (often flying to and from Dubai) who are the worst, in my experience, not the haughty 'old money' types.

I am BA Silver (so nothing special) but when I’ve been fortunate enough to have flown Qatar Airways heading East the Business Class has seemingly been chock full of usual BA flyers due to the close partnership they now have. I had a nice chat with a few people at the bar on the A380 last year. Never flown Emirates in Business (only Economy), all the fake gold and bling bling doesn’t entice me at all nor do the fares ever seem that good. Etihad looks nice though.

 

[SHD]

As this is primarily a Rail Based Forum not sure if many people also frequent the above - particularly the BA dedicated section.

There are some very knowledgeable people on there who offer excellent advice in relation to delays, compensation, cancellations and other solutions to problems you may encounter.

When it comes to more general topics relating to BA I can't help but feel that a lot of contributors spend very little time "the wrong side of the curtain" and have little understanding of the BA experience out with the realm of Business Class, Lounges and all the other perks associated with their status.

Thank you for this wonderful suggestion. I perused that forum and thoroughly enjoyed the entertainment. There are several pages (!) of heart wrenching distress cries from responsible middle aged men with enviable situations because… they were only offered a choice of orange juice or champagne as a welcome drink in business class whereas they wanted… water!

 

[Cdd89]

This forum has its downsides but it is not poncey or populated by people who think they’re a superior class of being for travelling a lot.

Given that Flyertalk is mostly about frequent flyer programs, the entire purpose of which is to make people feel ‘important’ and good about themselves for being in the right tier and having a shiny card, surely it isn’t really surprising?

The real surprise is that rail companies haven’t tried to introduce frequent traveller tiers, given what an effective psychological tool it is. Well, Eurostar has, but I mean domestically.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that Flyertalk is mostly about frequent flyer programs, the entire purpose of which is to make people feel ‘important’ and good about themselves for being in the right tier and having a shiny card, surely it isn’t really surprising?

The real surprise is that rail companies haven’t tried to introduce frequent traveller tiers, given what an effective psychological tool it is. Well, Eurostar has, but I mean domestically.

They have, but they're generally rather weak compared with the airline ones. If BR had remained a thing I could have seen InterCity doing it - DB has.

 

[Bald Rick]

They have, but they're generally rather weak compared with the airline ones. If BR had remained a thing I could have seen InterCity doing it - DB has.

BR did have one, of a sort. It was called “Travel Key” but IIRC fell foul of some tax issues and was discontinued.

 

[zero]

Given that Flyertalk is mostly about frequent flyer programs, the entire purpose of which is to make people feel ‘important’ and good about themselves for being in the right tier and having a shiny card, surely it isn’t really surprising?

The real surprise is that rail companies haven’t tried to introduce frequent traveller tiers, given what an effective psychological tool it is. Well, Eurostar has, but I mean domestically.

The benefits of FFPs when holding high status are: priority check in/security, extra checked baggage, lounge access, priority phone customer service (sometimes) and occasionally, priority immigration or upgrades in times of overbooking. In times of disruption status holders may have priority for rerouting but this often works against you.

None of these benefits really apply to rail travel, except perhaps lounge access, unless (as you mentioned) it is a train pretending to be a plane i.e. Eurostar. And you can get Eurostar lounge access by paying Amex for the platinum card.

Intercity operators like LNER and DB (long-distance) do have lounges but they aren't going to be places which serve you a full meal with expensive alcoholic drinks. Nobody is going to deliberately delay themselves on a rail connection to visit a lounge, or turn up extra early just to use the Avanti lounge.

Whereas it is worth going to the airport earlier than normal for a good airline lounge, or not booking the shortest possible flight connection (if there is a sensible longer option) given that you likely need to eat anyway, and airport timings can be unpredictable.

 

[BeijingDave]

Good points, but upgrades (free or discounted) could also apply to rail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good points, but upgrades (free or discounted) could also apply to rail.

Certainly. For instance you could on Avanti offer free upgrade to Standard Premium on the weekend. People do use lounges; a high tier person could get access to the Avanti lounges even if travelling Standard, say. You could (DB do) offer seats where cardholders have priority and can turf others out. You could offer free weekend travel up to limits. Lots of options for good benefits.

 

[zero]

Yes agreed to the above, but I think my main point would be that with flying you can get outsized benefits compared to your outlay. A term often used on FT and related forums is "aspirational"

Nobody is going to take trains back and forth between London and Scotland for zero reason other than to get into the Avanti lounge on the same trip in the future.

But it may make sense, if your existing flying gets you part way there, to take advantage of some special offers in order to gain access to the LHR First Wing and/or Concorde Room on all your flights in the next 2 years plus some very nice lounges in other countries and lots of queue jumping everywhere etc.

Yes some people may like feeling "entitled" too, and I don't think having a hypothetical LNER Platinum status quite cuts it for such people

Also on BA not all business class tickets include free seat selection, which is unlike most airlines (on FT this policy gets debated to death every few months), BA sometimes charges around £100 which is £400 for a couple on a return. Obviously if you wouldn't really pay that, then you are not genuinely saving £400 per trip by going on a tier point run, but it still counts for something.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes agreed to the above, but I think my main point would be that with flying you can get outsized benefits compared to your outlay. A term often used on FT and related forums is "aspirational"

If the cost of delivering the benefits was more than the revenue derived from frequent travellers then airlines wouldn’t offer the benefits. You can get the benefits in a cost-efficient way, yes, but to hit the top tiers you’d need to be regularly travelling at the pointy end of the plane anyway.

The BA Gold Card holders I know rack up the points with business, and the benefits encourage them to place their discretionary spend with BA. They’re as tight as a gnat’s chuff when they’re on their own dime, so the perks swing them off EasyJet or Wizz or Ryanair.

I was travelling a lot (long distance relationship) when East Coast had a proper Rewards scheme and the perks like free first class tickets and free lounge access encouraged me to place my business with EC even if EC were slightly more expensive. When the scheme was abolished by Stagecoach I just went back to travelling with whoever was cheapest. It’s a mystery why VTEC went bust.

 

[nlogax]

The benefits of FFPs when holding high status are: priority check in/security, extra checked baggage, lounge access, priority phone customer service (sometimes) and occasionally, priority immigration or upgrades in times of overbooking. In times of disruption status holders may have priority for rerouting but this often works against you.

None of these benefits really apply to rail travel, except perhaps lounge access, unless (as you mentioned) it is a train pretending to be a plane i.e. Eurostar. And you can get Eurostar lounge access by paying Amex for the platinum card.

Have to agree with this. I see rail travel and air travel between Scotland and London in completely different lights. The frequent flyer benefits you've described are a partial offset against the faff of actually getting to or from an airport and all the associated processes + hanging around. Even airline lounges don't feel as valuable to me now. They seem to be getting busier and when they're rammed I don't bother using them.

The equivalent journey by rail may be slower but it's usually more relaxing, comfortable and cheaper. If I can work a rail journey into my work travel schedule then I will. If that's not possible then I'm going to at least use the flying opportunity to gain some points + miles to maintain those FFP benefits and make the experience slightly better, and of course earn a reward flight or two as I go.

Rail lounges; I feel they're mostly pointless and not worth sticking with a loyalty scheme for unless it's for something like the Cally Sleeper where you may have a lengthy wait until the train is ready. Maybe I missed out on a golden age of rail lounges over the last couple of decades?

 

[Butts]

What's swung the balance for me as a leisure traveller is Avanti's introduction of Standard Premier which means you now have to pay 40-50% more for Advanced 1st Class Tickets than used to be the case. Standard Premier is now the same price 1st Class used to be and all you get is the seat. They could at least throw in a drink and Lounge Access.

Talking of Lounges this is where Air knocks Rail for six !!

With status even if you are in cattle you can get a decent scoff and drink gratis ( plus a takeaway for your exit seat) along with Fast Track Security and generous luggage allowance which mitigates the "Airport Hassle"

To be fair the one big bonus for rail is a refund if you are an hour late, plus city centre start and finish.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Talking of Lounges this is where Air knocks Rail for six !!

That's because you need to arrive at an airport much earlier than a station.

 

[Butts]

That's because you need to arrive at an airport much earlier than a station.

Just as well it has something worth turning up for....and don't forget connecting at LHR if you live in Scotland.

Has Eurostar got a Lounge and if so is it up to BA Standards ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has Eurostar got a Lounge and if so is it up to BA Standards ?

Yes, but I don't know the standard as I've not been in either.