Flying Scotsman

[47802]

So if I want to travel on a Mainline Charter I'm now welded to my seat I'm not supposed to stand in the vestibule let alone stand near the door window.

If I want to get a lineside photo I will now have to guess and sit by the lineside and wait, ok its only Flying Scotsman this week, will be all Steam Tours next week, and then all Diesel the week after.

Maybe its time to call it a day and do something else instead.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Absolutely the correct action, and if steam gets banned because it still got flouted by idiots who just have to get that slightly better photo/video, then don't expect sympathy when you come crying on here that big bad Network Rail have took away your toy.

Why shouldn’t people complain if that happened? Your attitude is identical to many people’s regarding football in the 80s when that was only a small minority of people also. Rail enthusiasts should be held accountable for their own actions but, as a group, how can you possibly say we are all responsible for the actions of people we don’t know at locations many of us will never have visited?

 

[azz7008]

This is a complete knee-jerk reaction if i'm being honest. Surely a more sensible approach would be to allocate an area (somewhere on the route) and appropriately police it and charge a small admission fee to cover the costs?

 

[Domh245]

Rail enthusiasts should be held accountable for their own actions but, as a group, how can you possibly say we are all responsible for the actions of people we don’t know at locations many of us will never have visited?

Unless there is some kind of Spotter permit introduced, there is no way of determining who are good and who are bad. A blanket restriction is the only sensible course then because at least it covers everything - much like you would do in a classroom!

This is a complete knee-jerk reaction if i'm being honest. Surely a more sensible approach would be to allocate an area (somewhere on the route) and appropriately police it and charge a small admission fee to cover the costs?

Good luck enforcing that. People will just ignore it and still do dangerous things.


As a side note, ISTR that a lot of the people who went onto the tracks weren't actually spotters in the true sense of the word, but normal people who were intrigued by all the press coverage. In this case, removing all of the publications about it's workings but retaining info on RTT and similar websites is surely a good compromise? People who should know better (and hopefully do act better) can still glean information about it, and those who act recklessly because they don't understand the railway can't.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Unless there is some kind of Spotter permit introduced, there is no way of determining who are good and who are bad. A blanket restriction is the only sensible course then because at least it covers everything - much like you would do in a classroom!

Just like we don't know which Muslims might be thinking of blowing us up then? Should be place restrictions on them?

 

[NSEFAN]

This is a complete knee-jerk reaction if i'm being honest. Surely a more sensible approach would be to allocate an area (somewhere on the route) and appropriately police it and charge a small admission fee to cover the costs?

And the public would just go elsewhere so that they don't have to pay. Again, the proper enthusiasts know damn well to stay off the running line and in a place of safety. It's the general public who do the most stupid things as they don't appreciate how dangerous the railway can be. There is also the so-called Teapot Taliban, who think it's still 19-dickety-2 and want to wander around the track like they did when they were children, again not realising that the railway has moved on since then.

 

[theironroad]

Have there been Any incidents of lineside trespass involving the Scotsman's movement since the inaugural run. Let's not forget that the inaugural run was covered by saturation coverage by the media with live broadcasts, helicopters etc. It was whipped up into a train frenzy which is unlikely to happen with the rest of the movements i'd have thought.

It does make me laugh a bit when you see the black and white pics of yesteryear when thousands more people were enthusiasts and people crowded on the lineside and off platforms to watch trains. Sure health and safety has moved forward but sometimes the attitude today seems a little surreal.

 

[lincolnshire]

Absolutely the correct action, and if steam gets banned because it still got flouted by idiots who just have to get that slightly better photo/video, then don't expect sympathy when you come crying on here that big bad Network Rail have took away your toy.

I personally agree with the above post, as far as I can see it will be Network Rails best excuse to ban all steam specials from main lines in the country before moving onto diesel specials and only ones left will be such as VSOE Pullmans, Northern Belle & Royal Scotsman that will be able to run on the main lines. Some maybe be allowed to run on certain routes where train delays etc will not cause big problems, if they had there way all will be banned on there lines.

There will be people on here to poo, poo what i say but thats my own opinion, lets just wait and see.

 

[jon91]

I personally agree with the above post, as far as I can see it will be Network Rails best excuse to ban all steam specials from main lines in the country before moving onto diesel specials and only ones left will be such as VSOE Pullmans, Northern Belle & Royal Scotsman that will be able to run on the main lines. Some maybe be allowed to run on certain routes where train delays etc will not cause big problems, if they had there way all will be banned on there lines.

And if one of those selfish gits who trespass just for a photo gets injured or killed on Network Rail property then NR will be left holding the can. Especially with the lack of personal accountability these days.

 

[father_jack]

Network Rail at Milton Keynes are having issues for quite a while with the uploading of special trains/paths.

Someone asked on another thread a few weeks back why 1L05 0352 SWA-PAD diverted using a "Q" path via the VOG on 10th of May wasn't in National Rail. It was duly reported but only finally appeared in the retail/public systems on Friday last.............:cry:

 

[azz7008]

And the public would just go elsewhere so that they don't have to pay. Again, the proper enthusiasts know damn well to stay off the running line and in a place of safety. It's the general public who do the most stupid things as they don't appreciate how dangerous the railway can be. There is also the so-called Teapot Taliban, who think it's still 19-dickety-2 and want to wander around the track like they did when they were children, again not realising that the railway has moved on since then.

Isn't this exactly the same as airshows, except the CAA have let airshows continue because they know it'd be stupid to try and make it all secret, because it just simply won't work if there is a large amount of people who know about it (I'm speculating here, i'm really not sure how many people would need to know apart from signallers and presumably passengers etc)

 

[jopsuk]

how's this going to work? Relying on enthusiast websites to keep things quiet? As has been said, timings available at booking, so they're public then- and the intermediate points can be worked out

 

[HowardGWR]

Some maybe be allowed to run on certain routes where train delays etc will not cause big problems, if they had there way all will be banned on there lines.

There will be people on here to poo, poo what i say but that's my own opinion, lets just wait and see.

No, very sensible comment, er, just the 'their' problems.
I have never understood why people want to photograph trains in those circumstances, especially when there are such good photos taken by folk who know how to do it and one can just call up these videos and photos on the internet for no cost. If you see the report about the SPM Open Day, I just don't understand why one would bother with a camera, except if you wanted one with little Jimmy stood with the engine behind him. That makes it unique - so fair enough and all safe to boot.

 

[spongsdad]

If the BTP had done the job for which they are paid, one of their functions being to prevent trespass, all this nonsense would have been avoided after the first outing of Flying Scotsman. How did we used to manage when every train was a steam train? Meanwhile more people die by deliberately stepping into the path of a train, more people are assaulted by vandals/hooligans, especially on late night services and a minute, but nonetheless, measurable minority would like to commit mass murder by putting bombs on trains. For goodness' sake get a grip.

 

[Marklund]

So if I want to travel on a Mainline Charter I'm now welded to my seat I'm not supposed to stand in the vestibule let alone stand near the door window.

If I want to get a lineside photo I will now have to guess and sit by the lineside and wait, ok its only Flying Scotsman this week, will be all Steam Tours next week, and then all Diesel the week after.

Maybe its time to call it a day and do something else instead.

Quite possibly, if that's how you see it.
I mean, heavens above, you actually have to wait for a train to pass, that would be horrendous. :roll:

 

[47802]

I had plenty of guess when the train turns up in the old days, but I think I'm getting a bit to old standing hours by the lineside playing guess when the train turns up when we have Realtime trains now or not in this case now.

Yes the trespass incidents were not good, but it wasn't rocket science to realise that having the Scotmans first run for instance on one of the railways most major routes on a weekday was frankly asking for trouble.

 

[richa2002]

Quite possibly, if that's how you see it.
I mean, heavens above, you actually have to wait for a train to pass, that would be horrendous. :roll:

Are you seriously suggesting that sitting by the lineside in case Flying Scotsman goes past is a viable alternative to knowing it's going to pass?

 

[DarloRich]

So if I want to travel on a Mainline Charter I'm now welded to my seat I'm not supposed to stand in the vestibule let alone stand near the door window.

If I want to get a lineside photo I will now have to guess and sit by the lineside and wait, ok its only Flying Scotsman this week, will be all Steam Tours next week, and then all Diesel the week after.

Maybe its time to call it a day and do something else instead.

Why shouldn’t people complain if that happened? Your attitude is identical to many people’s regarding football in the 80s when that was only a small minority of people also. Rail enthusiasts should be held accountable for their own actions but, as a group, how can you possibly say we are all responsible for the actions of people we don’t know at locations many of us will never have visited?

what are you wibbling on about? The level of trespass during the last run cost the tax payer ( that is YOU!) a fortune and it was entirely avoidable. It was only through luck that someone wasnt injured.

This is a complete knee-jerk reaction if i'm being honest. Surely a more sensible approach would be to allocate an area (somewhere on the route) and appropriately police it and charge a small admission fee to cover the costs?

that isn't going to work is it?

I personally agree with the above post, as far as I can see it will be Network Rails best excuse to ban all steam specials from main lines in the country before moving onto diesel specials and only ones left will be such as VSOE Pullmans, Northern Belle & Royal Scotsman that will be able to run on the main lines. Some maybe be allowed to run on certain routes where train delays etc will not cause big problems, if they had there way all will be banned on there lines.

There will be people on here to poo, poo what i say but thats my own opinion, lets just wait and see.

Aha - another tin foil hatted kettlista with a conspiracy theory! :roll: No evidence of course!

 

[grumblingalong]

I think quite clearly those who are in the know will know where and when Scotsman is running and as previously discussed it will probably still show on realtimetrains. The "secrecy" is to prevent large scale coverage on press which in turn attracts the attentions of the amateur spotters/idiots we saw on the ECML.

Those who want to see it will still be able to see it, the idiots who shouldn't be near a railway won't get in the way. Sensible idea in my book, let's not blow it out of proportion now!!

 

[AM9]

... The "secrecy" is to prevent large scale coverage on press which in turn attracts the attentions of the amateur spotters/idiots we saw on the ECML....

I'm curious as to what difference there is between "amateur spotters/idiots" and 'professional spotters/idiots'?

 

[geoffk]

How did we used to manage when every train was a steam train? Meanwhile more people die by deliberately stepping into the path of a train, more people are assaulted by vandals/hooligans, especially on late night services and a minute, but nonetheless, measurable minority would like to commit mass murder by putting bombs on trains. For goodness' sake get a grip.

Yes I completely agree. How do our European neighbours manage main line steam specials? Of course there are not so many but there's no fencing and I've never seen anyone standing too close to the tracks. Does SNCF or DB stop the job when people are at the lineside?

Many folks have paid to have Flying Scotsman restored. Most enthusiasts are sensible and know not to go inside the fence. The problems were caused by the general public and the BTP should have evidence to prosecute them if they really wanted to.

 

[lincolnshire]

what are you wibbling on about? The level of trespass during the last run cost the tax payer ( that is YOU!) a fortune and it was entirely avoidable. It was only through luck that someone wasnt injured.

By rights how did it cost the taxpayer then, as Network Rail charge the operators to run on there railway system, so by rights they have lost some of there revenue by paying out for the train delay,s form there income.

Aha - another tin foil hatted kettlista with a conspiracy theory! :roll: No evidence of course!

Don,t jump to concussions before calling people what they are not and my thoughts are not a conspiracy theory, I think you will find that there are plenty high up managers in the company that you work for would love to find away to remove steam and diesel specials if they had there way as it does,t fit the image anymore.

 

[jon0844]

Really? After seeing the BBC and Sky showing the train nearly all day, are you saying that old trains don't boost the image (and therefore profits) of the railway?

 

[talltim]

Perhaps FS just needs a trilby and false moustache

 

[DarloRich]

Don,t jump to concussions before calling people what they are not and my thoughts are not a conspiracy theory, I think you will find that there are plenty high up managers in the company that you work for would love to find away to remove steam and diesel specials if they had there way as it does,t fit the image anymore.

Please point me to any supporting evidence for your supposition. Perhaps you missed the pictures of NR/VTEC board members posing for pictures at Kings Cross with the locomotive in question. In the absence of your evidence I will point towards the same conspiracy theory kettleistas have been banging on about for about 25 years.

Some of you seem to think the recent problems with WCRC are the latest manifestation of this policy, which seems to overlook the rather inconvenient facts!:roll:

What WILL get steam trains banned from the main line very quickly is an unsafe operation and a poor approach to health, safety and competence management by the operator along with a catastrophic injury to a spectator on the line who shouldn't be. Perhaps then, however, the self fulfilling prophecy will come true.

 

[driver_m]

Why shouldn’t people complain if that happened? Your attitude is identical to many people’s regarding football in the 80s when that was only a small minority of people also. Rail enthusiasts should be held accountable for their own actions but, as a group, how can you possibly say we are all responsible for the actions of people we don’t know at locations many of us will never have visited?

Collective responsibility. It might not be fair, but that's how it is. If you were in that area where the trespass happened, would you tell them all to get off the track? Or not? Is it someone else's problem?

If my TM colleague has to apologise to our customers for delays caused by idiots trespassing, then you ultimately pay for the delay. Are you happy about that? Or is that someone's else problem?

If a colleague of mine kills someone and then has to go through a coroners court because of it, as well as suffer the trauma of having a fatality, are you gonna be the one who gets them back in the cab, stops the nightmares? Or is that someone else's problem?

The onus IS on you who watch the trains to stop these idiots from doing this. No one else. BTP can't be everywhere, You'd be the first ones on the phone or on social media if you caught us doing something wrong, when it's your own where is the equal condemnation? We do our bit, we report trespassers, we let encroachers know to get back, we know we mustn't do anything wrong because we're being watched. Sadly, it applies to you too. I know that steam trains are the single best bit of PR out there for the railway, but unless this trespassing near steam trains stops it will get banned on health & safety and you know how difficult it is to argue against h&s.. You have to make it totally unacceptable and known so to these idiots who continue to get that better shot. It isn't fair on you who are responsible and behave yourselves but you know it goes on.

 

[ryan125hst]

Still no times on Realtime Trains for the trip. However, I can have an educated guess as to when the train will be arriving into York diesel hauled and when the train will depart behind 60103 thanks to an article I found with the arrival times at Durham and Newcastle, plus the fact that I have managed to find the Steam Dreams page through a Google Search. The same is true for the return journey

 

[geoffk]

Now on RTT, northbound anyway. 1Z62.

 

[James_D]

Now on RTT, northbound anyway. 1Z62.

Do you have the link to the RTT feed? Cant get it working on my PC

 

[johnr57]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U59962/2016/05/10/advanced