Fraudulently obtaining railcards

[greatkingrat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ving-cost-tickets-reporter-shows-easy-is.html

An illegal railcard scam – exposed today by The Mail on Sunday – could be costing unwitting train firms millions of pounds and forcing up the price of tickets for passengers.

Fare-dodgers are using a simple trick advertised on the internet that allows them to lie about their age to fraudulently obtain the cards, which give them a 30 per cent discount on rail and Tube journeys.

People aged 16 to 25 qualify for the £30-a-year discount railcards, allowing them to save hundreds of pounds a year on tickets.

But The Mail on Sunday has discovered that fraudsters can obtain railcards from National Rail’s website within minutes by using a fake driving licence number during the application process.

Surprised it has taken this long for this loophole to be revealed publicly, I remember thinking there was no way for them to verify the passport / licence details when they first started selling railcards online. Interesting to see what Rail Delivery Group can do - they can't have access to the passport databases of every country in the world, or even just the UK, so how can they reliably verify age online without making everyone go to a ticket office with physical ID to buy a railcard?

 

[Starmill]

"costing unwitting train firms millons of pounds" - what a bizarre way to put it.

 

[cjp]

This is the Daily Fail whose proprietor, as Private Eye often reports, games the country's tax laws and they are publicising a way to financially hurt TOC as a "news story"???

 

[NSEFAN]

ATOC must surely have known about this for a while, and possibly deemed the cost of fixing it as not worth it. Now that a newspaper has published it, they'll probably be forced to change their system given more could try it on?

 

[AlterEgo]

This was obvious from the outset. I’d figured that out on the day it was released.

 

[100andthirty]

out of interest (not eligible by a few decades!), how do you buy a 16-25 railcard if you have neither a driving licence nor a passport, neither of which is a requirement for British citizens?

 

[Darandio]

out of interest (not eligible by a few decades!), how do you buy a 16-25 railcard if you have neither a driving licence nor a passport, neither of which is a requirement for British citizens?

Go to a ticket office and use your birth certificate.

 

[superalbs]

out of interest (not eligible by a few decades!), how do you buy a 16-25 railcard if you have neither a driving licence nor a passport, neither of which is a requirement for British citizens?

You can do it at the station, no proof of age or identity needed. You just have to sign some declaration that you are of valid age.

 

[AlterEgo]

You can do it at the station, no proof of age or identity needed. You just have to sign some declaration that you are of valid age.

That’s not correct. You need proof of age when buying at a station.

 

[superalbs]

That’s not correct. You need proof of age when buying at a station.

Things aren't being done correctly at a certain ticket office then.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would have thought there were bigger holes in the Railcard system than the ability to lie about the fact that you're under 26 (under 31 once the 26-30 Railcard is back on sale)...

 

[PermitToTravel]

out of interest (not eligible by a few decades!), how do you buy a 16-25 railcard if you have neither a driving licence nor a passport, neither of which is a requirement for British citizens?

It sounds like the Daily Mail have just published instructions

 

[yorkie]

I agree, this is nothing new, it's been known about for years.

ATOC must surely have known about this for a while, and possibly deemed the cost of fixing it as not worth it. Now that a newspaper has published it, they'll probably be forced to change their system given more could try it on?

Yes they will have known about it from day one as it was designed this way.

I think I remember it being posted years ago on here (but in a subtle way; not in the way newspapers have issued instructions in a high profile manner!).

I don't think they can 'fix' it other than to add a manual step in the process.

 

[philthetube]

They could do the old, if you look over 25 proof of age may be required to use this card, maybe with the option to have them validated at a station.

 

[greyman42]

They could do the old, if you look over 25 proof of age may be required to use this card, maybe with the option to have them validated at a station.

That sounds a sensible, workable option.

 

[PeterY]

I have a Senior Rail card and I had to show my passport at the railway station.

Some people have met me from UK Railforums and it's often commented on the I don't look 60 (feel it ) . I just waiting for a RPI or guard for proof that I actually own the card.

 

[BigCj34]

Surely it's possible to check the driving license number with the DVLA?

 

[bb21]

Surely it's possible to check the driving license number with the DVLA?

Not sure a railway company is supposed to be allowed to do this.

 

[greyman42]

Surely it's possible to check the driving license number with the DVLA?

Yes it would providing the DVLA were willing to co-operate with the TOCS.

 

[PermitToTravel]

No one else has that power so I'd be surprised if the TOCs suddenly got it

Before anyone mentions the check code verification service - date of birth isn't a detail you can get from that! It can sometimes be worked out from expiry date, but not reliably

 

[AlterEgo]

Surely it's possible to check the driving license number with the DVLA?

The DVLA won’t let any old Tom Dick or Harry look at their data.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes it would providing the DVLA were willing to co-operate with the TOCS.

It would be against the principles of data protection.

 

[Gareth Marston]

A National ID Card would solve the problem

 

[BigCj34]

While I stand corrected on data protection laws forbidding the TOC's from checking data with the DVLA, would it be permissible to ask for a scan of a driving license as tempering with the number could probably be spotted? Or again is that against data protection laws etc.?

 

[RJ]

We will vigorously tackle any loopholes which leave the system open to abuse.

I thought that was only the policy for ultra-obscure loopholes that only one or two people use - not this kind of thing that's wide open for an unlimited number of people to use!

 

[tony_mac]

It would be against the principles of data protection.

I don't believe that's relevant - they would just require that an applicant agrees to share the data as part of the application. They do this all the time with releasing personal details to car hire companies.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The DVLA won’t let any old Tom Dick or Harry look at their data.

Unless the Tom, Dick or Harry in question is a parking company. In which case they are more than happy to give out registered keepers' details to unscrupulous (to say the least) companies - even those which have previously shown total disregard for data protection, the terms of their DVLA access contract and their Accredited Trade Association's Code of Practice (which is effectively law).

 

[alistairlees]

Unless the Tom, Dick or Harry in question is a parking company. In which case they are more than happy to give out registered keepers' details to unscrupulous (to say the least) companies - even those which have previously shown total disregard for data protection, the terms of their DVLA access contract and their Accredited Trade Association's Code of Practice (which is effectively law).

It appears there are services to check driving licences against - they may not reveal data, just verify whether the applicant is genuine or not

https://dvlasearch.co.uk/

 

[ScotTrains]

Surely the easiest option would be to have just one Railcard available for all.

Currently the only group of people who are ineligible to buy a type of Railcard are single, not unemployed, don't work in the forces, non disabled 31 to 60 (50 in some areas) year olds who don't live in the South East, the Dales, Devon & Cornwall, Esk Valley, the Highlands, or various postcodes within Wales. Any ones I've missed will just narrow the ineligible Railcard group even further.
Having just one national Railcard would be simpler and easier for both passengers and staff.

 

[talldave]

Surely the easiest option would be to have just one Railcard available for all.

Currently the only group of people who are ineligible to buy a type of Railcard are single, not unemployed, don't work in the forces, non disabled 31 to 60 (50 in some areas) year olds who don't live in the South East, the Dales, Devon & Cornwall, Esk Valley, the Highlands, or various postcodes within Wales. Any ones I've missed will just narrow the ineligible Railcard group even further.
Having just one national Railcard would be simpler and easier for both passengers and staff.

Or scrap them all and apply discounts globally for all.