Freight trains in Holland

[citycat]

I notice that a lot of the freight trains that pass through my local station in the Netherlands (Woerden) have a red liveried DB loco at the head of the consist. Does anyone know if these are DB locos that are based in German depots and run across the border from Germany, or are these DB locos that are based in the Netherlands? Do the drivers from each country switch over at the border or do German drivers have the route knowledge to drive through to somewhere like Rotterdam Europoort for example?

 

[43096]

I notice that a lot of the freight trains that pass through my local station in the Netherlands (Woerden) have a red liveried DB loco at the head of the consist. Does anyone know if these are DB locos that are based in German depots and run across the border from Germany, or are these DB locos that are based in the Netherlands?

If they are electric locos then they will be DB Cargo locos based in Germany. DB has a fleet of multi-system/multi-country locos of types ES64F4 (class 189) and Vectron (class 193) that can operate into Netherlands and other countries.

 

[MisterT]

DB Cargo has it's own Dutch subsidiary, which is actually the biggest freight operator in the Netherlands. They have their own locos, but of course use the locos from their parent company as well, or will hire locos from leasing companies.
Some drivers will only do domestic trains, but many are allowed to drive in two or even three countries (Netherlands, Germany and Belgium).

 

[citycat]

Thanks for the info.

Driving back from our holiday in Italy a couple of days ago, we stopped for dinner in the Rhine Valley. It was amazing how many freight trains were passing through. One every few minutes on one side of the river, and Swiss and German passenger trains on the other side of the Rhine.

 

[Davester50]

If they are electric locos then they will be DB Cargo locos based in Germany. DB has a fleet of multi-system/multi-country locos of types ES64F4 (class 189) and Vectron (class 193) that can operate into Netherlands and other countries.

They've got, (or did have) old NS locos painted in DB red. Can't see them ever going to Germany.

 

[MarcVD]

They've got, (or did have) old NS locos painted in DB red. Can't see them ever going to Germany.

No indeed. These locos are 1500V only, so can’t get out of the NS network.

 

[Davester50]

No indeed. These locos are 1500V only, so can’t get out of the NS network.

Thanks for the confirmation.

DB has a fleet of multi-system/multi-country locos of types ES64F4 (class 189) and Vectron (class 193) that can operate into Netherlands and other countries.

Without starting a whole new thread, how do these multi-system locos change voltage/frequency?
I'm guessing there is a small section of double catenary wire with both? If there is, are they live at the same time?
I've watched a YouTube of a loco change at Bad Bentheim, but can't see any clues!

 

[DanielB]

Without starting a whole new thread, how do these multi-system locos change voltage/frequency?
I'm guessing there is a small section of double catenary wire with both? If there is, are they live at the same time?
I've watched a YouTube of a loco change at Bad Bentheim, but can't see any clues!

They lower the pantograph before the changeover section (which has an insulated part of overhead line), switch mode in the software, then raise the pantograph corresponding to the selected mode again.
Bad Bentheim is different as it has a changable voltage on the OHLE in the station, so trains have to stop to change voltage.

You might look for some cab videos of the high speed line in the Netherlands. There an Amsterdam - Breda service changes voltage 4 times in a trip in one direction, so plenty of options to see how it works.

 

[XAM2175]

Without starting a whole new thread, how do these multi-system locos change voltage/frequency?
I'm guessing there is a small section of double catenary wire with both? If there is, are they live at the same time?
I've watched a YouTube of a loco change at Bad Bentheim, but can't see any clues!

No, it's much more common that the different systems will be separated by a neutral section. Multi-system locos will coast through, making the changeover under the dead wire. Side-by-side usage of two overhead electrification systems is virtually impossible without using specialised wire geometry and pantograph setups, like the SZU in Zürich did until just a few days ago.

Bad Bentheim, on the other hand, is a rather unique arrangement whereby the wires over some roads can be switched from one system to the other, allowing the locos to be exchanged without needing shunters. Co-incidentally, it's the subject of a very recent discussion here:

Voltage change at Bad Bentheim - how does it work?

I've read that Bad Bentheim (near the Dutch/German border) has voltage switchable catenary. I'm curious about how that actually works (or, if it's not the case any more in this world of multi-voltage locomotives, how it used to work). Does anyone know? I.e. Who switches the voltage whan...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Davester50]

They lower the pantograph before the changeover section (which has an insulated part of overhead line), switch mode in the software, then raise the pantograph corresponding to the selected mode again.
Bad Bentheim is different as it has a changable voltage on the OHLE in the station, so trains have to stop to change voltage.

You might look for some cab videos of the high speed line in the Netherlands. There an Amsterdam - Breda service changes voltage 4 times in a trip in one direction, so plenty of options to see how it works.

No, it's much more common that the different systems will be separated by a neutral section. Multi-system locos will coast through, making the changeover under the dead wire. Side-by-side usage of two overhead electrification systems is virtually impossible without using specialised wire geometry and pantograph setups, like the SZU in Zürich did until just a few days ago.

Bad Bentheim, on the other hand, is a rather unique arrangement whereby the wires over some roads can be switched from one system to the other, allowing the locos to be exchanged without needing shunters. Co-incidentally, it's the subject of a very recent discussion here:

Voltage change at Bad Bentheim - how does it work?

I've read that Bad Bentheim (near the Dutch/German border) has voltage switchable catenary. I'm curious about how that actually works (or, if it's not the case any more in this world of multi-voltage locomotives, how it used to work). Does anyone know? I.e. Who switches the voltage whan...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thank you both!

Once I've obeyed the Wife's instructions, I'll sit and watch some of these YouTubes.

 

[MisterT]

For example this video shows one of the voltage change-over points in The Netherlands. This is at Zevenbergsche Hoek, near Breda, entering the high-speed line to Rotterdam.
The driver gets the instructions on the ETCS DMI, but there are visual instructions outside as well.
At 1m27s there is this blue/white indicator that the pantographs should be lowered in 300m.
1m37s the driver is cutting off the traction, opening the main circuit breaker and lowering the pantographs.
1m51s shows another blue/white indicator where the pantographs should be lowered.
At 1m58s the actual change-over section starts. This first section is by default dead wire, but can be changed to 1500V DC if necessary (when a train would stop in this section).
At 2m38s there is the actual point where the drivers should configure their trains for the new voltage. This is a short section of permanently grounded wire. Right after that, there is another section of dead wire, but this time it can be changed to 25 kV AC when necessary.
3m02s shows the end of the voltage change-over section. The double overhead wire is changed there for a single one, and is live with 25 kV AC.
Indicators at 3m17 and 3m32 show where the driver is allowed to raise the pantographs again, based on train length (8 and 16 coaches respectively). In this video the driver is raising the pantographs just before the 16 coach indicator, as the train consists of 2 locomotives and 9 coaches.
At 3m50s the driver closes the main circuit breaker, and is gaining speed again from around the 4m10s mark.

 

[MarcVD]

Bad Bentheim, on the other hand, is a rather unique arrangement

It's not that unique. They exist, or used to exist until recently, in Quevy, Jeumont, Luxembourg, Aachen, Basel, Geneva, and probably alsoa few others. When they were built, multisystem locos were a rarity - only France and Belgium had really functional ones - so such commutable tracks were the only practical solution. Today multisystem locos are ordinary animals so commutable tracks can be abandoned.

 

[43096]

It's not that unique. They exist, or used to exist until recently, in Quevy, Jeumont, Luxembourg, Aachen, Basel, Geneva, and probably alsoa few others. When they were built, multisystem locos were a rarity - only France and Belgium had really functional ones - so such commutable tracks were the only practical solution. Today multisystem locos are ordinary animals so commutable tracks can be abandoned.

And Czechoslovakia (as it then was).

 

[XAM2175]

It's not that unique. They exist, or used to exist until recently, in Quevy, Jeumont, Luxembourg, Aachen, Basel, Geneva, and probably alsoa few others. When they were built, multisystem locos were a rarity - only France and Belgium had really functional ones - so such commutable tracks were the only practical solution. Today multisystem locos are ordinary animals so commutable tracks can be abandoned.

Very true, I had meant it in the sense of "rather uncommon now".