FS Trenitalia Frecciarossa Paris-Milano

[D6130]

On board train EC 9281, 07 26 Paris Lyon - Milano Centrale (unit no. ETR400.15). A quick walk through reveals that the train is just about full. This new service is justifiably popular and is really giving it's SNCF TGV rivals a run for their money. This is our third trip (second Southbound). Anyone else have any experiences of this service?

 

[Austriantrain]

On board train EC 9281, 07 26 Paris Lyon - Milano Centrale (unit no. ETR400.15). A quick walk through reveals that the train is just about full. This new service is justifiably popular and is really giving it's SNCF TGV rivals a run for their money. This is our third trip (second Southbound). Anyone else have any experiences of this service?

How much more useful would it be for everybody if, instead of running more or less parallel services, SNCF and TI teamed up to run a two-hourly Paris - Lyon PD - Torino - (HSL) - Milano service… there is enough competition from airlines as it is to make sure they could not operate as a monopoly.

 

[D6130]

I agree.....although I suspect that SNCF will abandon this route in a few years time when their TGV-Reseau trainsets are life-expired.

EDIT: An interesting development: We have just reversed at Lyon Part Dieu and are now heading North-Eastwards towards Amberieu. While those international TGVs which do not serve Lyon are routed via Bourg-en-Bresse, Amberieu and Aix-les-Bains, this is the first time that I have ever been diverted via the Lyon-Amberieu line.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I agree.....although I suspect that SNCF will abandon this route in a few years time when their TGV-Reseau trainsets are life-expired.

EDIT: An interesting development: We have just reversed at Lyon Part Dieu and are now heading North-Eastwards towards Amberieu. While those international TGVs which do not serve Lyon are routed via Bourg-en-Bresse, Amberieu and Aix-les-Bains, this is the first time that I have ever been diverted via the Lyon-Amberieu line.

Sounds like a good trip, would you say the train you are on is better than the SNCF TGV? Are you in 1st or 2nd class. Doo you know how many carriages your train consists of? Enjoy.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Enjoyed a Chambery-Turin run on the TI service in June, in 1st. All seats occupied.
Impressed by the TI on-board team, who just happened to overnight at my hotel in Chambery.
I thought they were an airline crew until I saw them boarding my train and (later) serving my refreshments.

Isn't a third daily TI service coming soon?

 

[D6130]

Sounds like a good trip, would you say the train you are on is better than the SNCF TGV? Are you in 1st or 2nd class. Doo you know how many carriages your train consists of? Enjoy.

On this occasion we're in second class, having sampled Executive and Business on our previous trip back in the Spring. Comfort-wise, the articulated bogies of the TGV give a slightly smoother ride than the individual ones on the Frecciarossa....but there's not a lot in it. Seating-wise the Frecciarossa second and business class seats are made of imitation leather, which makes them a wee bit sticky when it gets warm, compared with the more comfortable fabric-covered upholstered seats on the TGV.... although the TGV second class seats have the appalling angled-steel reclining handles - which bruise the back of your legs every time you get up or sit down - under the centre of the seat. The catering on the Italian train is at another level to that on the TGV and the individual reclining armchairs and unlimited included food and drink in the Frecciarossa Executive Class is the ultimate in European rail passenger luxury.

 

[RT4038]

How much more useful would it be for everybody if, instead of running more or less parallel services, SNCF and TI teamed up to run a two-hourly Paris - Lyon PD - Torino - (HSL) - Milano service… there is enough competition from airlines as it is to make sure they could not operate as a monopoly.

I should imagine that rolling stock utilisation would be an issue, as this would take more trains to achieve.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

How much more useful would it be for everybody if, instead of running more or less parallel services, SNCF and TI teamed up to run a two-hourly Paris - Lyon PD - Torino - (HSL) - Milano service… there is enough competition from airlines as it is to make sure they could not operate as a monopoly.

I should imagine that rolling stock utilisation would be an issue, as this would take more trains to achieve.

In a very simplified form and assuming paths were available:

With a journey time of 6.5 to 7 hours and allowing 1 to 1.5 hours turnround, departures at 06.xx 08.xx 10.xx from either end could return at 14.xx 16.xx and 18.xx, requiring six sets. OK there is not a 12.xx as to run this would incur two additional sets but gives a good spread through the day. Turnrounds could be stretched by tweaking the a.m. departures slightly earlier and p.m. s slightly later.

I assume the current offering is based on one round trip per day for each set (I've not checked the TT).

The 18.xx departures arriving at their respective termini well after midnight might be unattractive and perhaps these could terminate northbound at Lyon and southbound at Torino with an early morning balance Lyon to Milano and Torino to Paris, so five per day throughout and two start/terminate short still with six sets.

 

[Watershed]

Does anyone know if Interrail Global passes are valid on these services, being as they are open access? The Interrail planner says no, but I'm aware that it's frequently wrong.

If so, presumably you need to pay some kind of supplement to use Executive Class with a 1st class pass? Or is such an upgrade impossible, as with Business Premier on Eurostar?

 

[rvdborgt]

Does anyone know if Interrail Global passes are valid on these services, being as they are open access? The Interrail planner says no, but I'm aware that it's frequently wrong.

Interrail is not accepted on the Frecciarossa services in/to/from France.

 

[rg177]

Does anyone know if Interrail Global passes are valid on these services, being as they are open access? The Interrail planner says no, but I'm aware that it's frequently wrong.

If so, presumably you need to pay some kind of supplement to use Executive Class with a 1st class pass? Or is such an upgrade impossible, as with Business Premier on Eurostar?

They're not valid at all on these services unfortunately.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

On this occasion we're in second class, having sampled Executive and Business on our previous trip back in the Spring. Comfort-wise, the articulated bogies of the TGV give a slightly smoother ride than the individual ones on the Frecciarossa....but there's not a lot in it. Seating-wise the Frecciarossa second and business class seats are made of imitation leather, which makes them a wee bit sticky when it gets warm, compared with the more comfortable fabric-covered upholstered seats on the TGV.... although the TGV second class seats have the appalling angled-steel reclining handles - which bruise the back of your legs every time you get up or sit down - under the centre of the seat. The catering on the Italian train is at another level to that on the TGV and the individual reclining armchairs and unlimited included food and drink in the Frecciarossa Executive Class is the ultimate in European rail passenger luxury.

Thank you for that very useful info. I guessed the Catering would be better on the Italian Train.

 

[RT4038]

In a very simplified form and assuming paths were available:

With a journey time of 6.5 to 7 hours and allowing 1 to 1.5 hours turnround, departures at 06.xx 08.xx 10.xx from either end could return at 14.xx 16.xx and 18.xx, requiring six sets. OK there is not a 12.xx as to run this would incur two additional sets but gives a good spread through the day. Turnrounds could be stretched by tweaking the a.m. departures slightly earlier and p.m. s slightly later.

I assume the current offering is based on one round trip per day for each set (I've not checked the TT).

The 18.xx departures arriving at their respective termini well after midnight might be unattractive and perhaps these could terminate northbound at Lyon and southbound at Torino with an early morning balance Lyon to Milano and Torino to Paris, so five per day throughout and two start/terminate short still with six sets.

So how is that really making the service any better? 5 trips a day in each direction versus 5 trips per day in each direction? (being as the 18h departures from each end aren't making the full journey)

 

[Austriantrain]

So how is that really making the service any better? 5 trips a day in each direction versus 5 trips per day in each direction? (being as the 18h departures from each end aren't making the full journey)

Well, two more or less parallel services in the morning (dep Paris 6:47 and 7:26) and the afternoon (dep Paris 14:43 and 15:18) cannot reasonably be described as a well laid-out service, can it? Nor is it an efficient use of rolling stock.