Further steps notice going back to court for an expired railcard

[gummy22]

Hi,
I caught the train from Liverpool St to Stansted and bought a railcard ticket at the gate it turned out it had expired a few weeks before and my dyslexic brain hadn’t realised.
They took my details and the guy was really nice and comforting, he said most of the time they don’t even bother and just watch out for something in the post. I didn’t receive anything until I got a “further steps” notice in the post demanding £550 or the baliffs would be around or I could be arrested.
I only had two weeks to reply and the letter was dated a week ago. So I went onto the gov.uk website to stop it and rearranged the court hearing. My question is will they be able to send me to prison or fine me £500 possibly thousands of pounds? I’m not in a financial position to pay £500 at the moment due to the usual (small kids, mat leave, debt, blah blah). I’m a teacher so any conviction could see me being fired and obviously prison would be the end. What are my best next steps from here?

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

There seems to be more to this story if you're able to tell us please? If you've had a further steps notice then this has been to court and a verdict seems to have been given in your absence.

You say you've rearranged the hearing, does this mean that you weren't aware of the hearing for whatever reason?

 

[Haywain]

They took my details

When did this happen (date)?

I didn’t receive anything until I got a “further steps” notice

Are you absolutely sure you didn't receive anything? This would be highly unusual, as you will have missed, at least. a letter from the train company, a summons, and the notice of the fine imposed by the court.

What are my best next steps from here?

The best action, other than submitting a statutory declaration (which it sounds as though you have done), is to get in contact with the relevant train company to ask if they will settle the matter once the court action has been reset.

 

[30907]

To add a couple of points to ease your mind:
1. you will not be go to prison.
2. your conviction may show up on your Enhanced DBS but it is highly unlikely to be career-ending (though concealing the information would be another matter) - consult your union and your terms of employment.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I’m a teacher so any conviction could see me being fired and obviously prison would be the end.

Just to reassure you on these points - you will not be going to prison. Unless there are very serious aggravating circumstances then prison isn't used for people who don't pay the right train fare. And it's unlikely that you will be fired either: if you're a union member then talk to your rep to find out quite what really happens with your employer.

 

[Titfield]

2. your conviction may show up on your Enhanced DBS but it is highly unlikely to be career-ending (though concealing the information would be another matter) - consult your union and your terms of employment.

There may be an obligation on the OP to declare to his employer that he/she has sustained a conviction within a small number of days of the conviction being sustained. The employer / regulator may treat the failure to declare as being more serious than the actual conviction.

 

[gummy22]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

There seems to be more to this story if you're able to tell us please? If you've had a further steps notice then this has been to court and a verdict seems to have been given in your absence.

You say you've rearranged the hearing, does this mean that you weren't aware of the hearing for whatever reason?

I never received anything via email or post until I got the further steps notice. So I didn’t realise it had gone to court or anything until that letter. So I rearranged to court date just to buy time so baliffs don’t come over Christmas.

Just to reassure you on these points - you will not be going to prison. Unless there are very serious aggravating circumstances then prison isn't used for people who don't pay the right train fare. And it's unlikely that you will be fired either: if you're a union member then talk to your rep to find out quite what really happens with your employer.

Thank you this is reassuring I just checked my DBS (enhanced) and. Nothing is showing up. I’m in the update service so am able to check in real time. Does this mean I haven’t been convicted?

When did this happen (date)?

Are you absolutely sure you didn't receive anything? This would be highly unusual, as you will have missed, at least. a letter from the train company, a summons, and the notice of the fine imposed by the court.

The best action, other than submitting a statutory declaration (which it sounds as though you have done), is to get in contact with the relevant train company to ask if they will settle the matter once the court action has been reset.

I never received anything but I have moved since my details were taken this is from September 2022 and all I’ve received is the final steps.

To add a couple of points to ease your mind:
1. you will not be go to prison.
2. your conviction may show up on your Enhanced DBS but it is highly unlikely to be career-ending (though concealing the information would be another matter) - consult your union and your terms of employment.

Thank you! Having checked my enhanced DBS it is still showing as nothing.

 

[Gloster]

Can you post the letter that you received in this thread with all identifying details (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured.

 

[tixy]

Was the further steps notice issued by a Magistrate’s Court. If so this is what I am basing my reply on. It is important here to read the notice carefully as there are implications to not acting on it.

This means you have been fined in your absence and the court are attempting to collect. Here I can help as I work in this sector.

please post the letter with details blacked out, it will indicate where in the court process you are, and if it a railway letter, there are experts here that can help with this side of things.

 

[gummy22]

Was the further steps notice issued by a Magistrate’s Court. If so this is what I am basing my reply on. It is important here to read the notice carefully as there are implications to not acting on it.

This means you have been fined in your absence and the court are attempting to collect. Here I can help as I work in this sector.

please post the letter with details blacked out, it will indicate where in the court process you are, and if it a railway letter, there are experts here that can help with this side of things.

This the current letter I have from the court, thank you so much for your reply

 

[Gloster]

This the current letter I have from the court, thank you so much for your reply

Is this the only communication that you have received? Did you not say in #1 that you had received an earlier ‘further steps’ notice? If so, please post it in this thread, once again with identifying details obscured.

 

[tixy]

Ok that makes sense. It’s good that you have an upcoming hearing. This will hold any actions the court wishes to make to recover the fine.

When you attend you have two options.

1. If you contest the conviction, you will be able to lodge what is known as a statutory declaration. This will reset the clock and allow you to re-plead. I would take advice from other members here as they are clued up more on railway law, but based on your earlier post I think that you don’t dispute the conviction and are just concerned with the fine amount.

This moves onto option 2.

2. At court you can state that although you do not contest the conviction, you were not given the opportunity for your financial means to be considered when setting the fine amount. The court will then take into consideration your income and may set a different fine amount called a remission (please note they may not do this) Court costs and compensation will always stay the same.

If you download the following form and take it with your last 3 payslips, along with any priority bills such as rent etc… the court will use this to calculate.

Form MC100: Make sure you can pay your fine

Form MC100: Make sure you can pay your fine. This form is available in other languages.

www.gov.uk

Once the fine has been set, you can ask for time to pay. The will order a set amount each month. ITS IMPORTANT TO KEEP TO THIS.

I have to clear up earlier posts,
If you miss the hearing and no contact is made, the court can send the bailiffs, which racks up on fees. They can and do also issue arrest warrants to secure attendance in court. Although as a last resort, the court can also order committal to prison for non payment of fines, but a lot has to be considered first and as long as you work with the courts, this would not happen.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gloster]

I think it might be possible to contact the railway company to ask them if they will withdraw the case and agree an out of court settlement, which means no criminal record. I am NOT an expert and am not absolutely certain that this is possible in your case. Wait until the experts come on and they will be able to explain if it is possible and how to go about it. But note, even if it is possible it depends on the railway company agreeing: they make the decision.

 

[tixy]

I think it might be possible to contact the railway company to ask them if they will withdraw the case and agree an out of court settlement, which means no criminal record. I am NOT an expert and am not absolutely certain that this is possible in your case. Wait until the experts come on and they will be able to explain if it is possible and how to go about it. But note, even if it is possible it depends on the railway company agreeing: they make the decision.

Solid advice here. If the rail company agree to settle out of court, then all it takes is a Stat Dec at the court end at the hearing. Just be sure that this is agreed to as the court can fine any amount after a SD up to the maximum allowed.

Remember however that settlements outside court can be quite high with discretionary or no time to pay so please get some advice from the experts. (They can even help draft emails etc..)

If you opt for a fine amount alone to be reviewed the most the court can fine is the current fine amount.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you this is reassuring I just checked my DBS (enhanced) and. Nothing is showing up. I’m in the update service so am able to check in real time. Does this mean I haven’t been convicted?

No. You have been convicted and fined. This does not appear to be in dispute. Some types of convictions are not recorded on the Police National Computer and will not always be disclosed even on an Enhanced DBS, which is not a general and complete check but one which will only reveal non-PNC information relevant to your employer and position at work.

 

[island]

Just to note that whilst references are made above to a statutory declaration, the communication from the court in post 10 indicates that the application is not for a statutory declaration, but a s142 reopening of the case in the interests of justice.

 

[tixy]

Just to note that whilst references are made above to a statutory declaration, the communication from the court in post 10 indicates that the application is not for a statutory declaration, but a s142 reopening of the case in the interests of justice.

That is correct, however it will be expected at the hearing that some course of action be made, which can include a SD in court or an application for remission/time to pay.

Based on the 142 comment, I wonder that if an out of court settlement be made by the TOC, a SD needs to happen in the first place, or can they apply to withdraw?

 

[island]

That is correct, however it will be expected at the hearing that some course of action be made, which can include a SD in court or an application for remission/time to pay.

No. An SD is a completely separate process to a s142. It will be too late to make anSD by then.

Based on the 142 comment, I wonder that if an out of court settlement be made by the TOC, a SD needs to happen in the first place, or can they apply to withdraw?

If a s142 reopening application is accepted, it is open to the court to adjourn the now reopened case to allow for a settlement, and if one is reached, the prosecution can discontinue the case or offer no evidence.

 

[pedr]

Will the prosecutor be present for the s. 142 hearing?

It does seem that at least some courts are treating contact from people who say “I didn’t know about this” as applications to re-open, rather than explaining the statutory declaration process. I’m not sure why that would be, and it seems to confuse things.

 

[tixy]

Will the prosecutor be present for the s. 142 hearing?

It does seem that at least some courts are treating contact from people who say “I didn’t know about this” as applications to re-open, rather than explaining the statutory declaration process. I’m not sure why that would be, and it seems to confuse things.

In relation to post stat dec/ 142 hearings, I think this will be one for the experts here as I only deal with the post fine collection process in my line of work.

 

[gummy22]

Will the prosecutor be present for the s. 142 hearing?

It does seem that at least some courts are treating contact from people who say “I didn’t know about this” as applications to re-open, rather than explaining the statutory declaration process. I’m not sure why that would be, and it seems to confuse things.

Thank you for your reply, apologies I have got rather confused by some of the technical language. Am I able to just pay the fine and stop it going to court and getting a criminal conviction. Due to my job I can not have a criminal conviction, I’ll lose my job.

 

[furlong]

You have a criminal conviction already. The letter says the S142 is only to revisit the sentencing not the conviction - though in reality other things could happen on the day.

I would suggest you consider both (a) taking the SD route immediately (using any local solicitor for a small fee) rather than the S142 and (b) contacting the train company - presumably Greater Anglia? - explaining the situation, that a S142 hearing is scheduled, but you're thinking a SD might be better and asking would they then be open to settling this out of court to avoid having a conviction on your record as this will cause you major problems. The train company might offer a settlement and agree to use the S142 already scheduled to undo the conviction without needing the SD. (We've seen GWR use this method in a similar situation previously.) Or they might say if you do the SD, they'll offer a settlement.

 

[tixy]

You could also have a go at calling the listings department and ask them to change the hearing from a S142 to a hearing to lodge a SD you can then make the declaration for free in open court and request a further plea hearing to be booked to allow time to contact the prosecution, alternatively you can have a solicitor complete the SD for you (for a small fee) if this is done, you will need to call the court and explain that a SD has been lodged so they can cancel/amend the listing, otherwise they may issue a warrant for not attending the 142 hearing.

 

[Puffing Devil]

You could also have a go at calling the listings department and ask them to change the hearing from a S142 to a hearing to lodge a SD you can then make the declaration for free in open court and request a further plea hearing to be booked to allow time to contact the prosecution, alternatively you can have a solicitor complete the SD for you (for a small fee) if this is done, you will need to call the court and explain that a SD has been lodged so they can cancel/amend the listing, otherwise they may issue a warrant for not attending the 142 hearing.

I always advise against making an appointment to hear a Statutory Declaration in court as many courts immediately re-open the case and want to take a plea immediately, which gives little time for the defendant to review the charges against them.

@gummy22 Hopefully one of the forum members with court experience will be back to post some guidance - I'll check this thread again tomorrow, but don't have time for a detailed post tonight.




New post below - auto-merge combined them

@gummy22 Working on the basis of what's been posted, and the paperwork that you have shared.

1. Read through the process on this page from HMCTS

2. Complete the declaration and make an appointment to have it taken at a local solicitor. This will cost £5. As for a certified copy at the same time - it should be £2.

3. Send the declaration to the court by tracked post. Keep a copy of your letter and your certified copy of the SD. Ask them to vacate the application to re-open and accept the SD. You can send the same information via email if you have the court address address.

4. Get in touch with the railway company with all the information you have. Let them know that you have filed an SD as you were unaware of the court hearing and ask if the matter can be settled without returning to court.

If you're in a teaching union, it is worth speaking to them ASAP. They may be able to help with a solicitor for the SD and advise on the impact of any conviction on your employment.