Future for Class 180 Adelante fleets

[James Kevill]

When I've heard that Grand Central has applied to extend its track access rights on the East Coast Main Line until 2038, they will replace the 10 Class 180 fleets with a new Bi-Mode Trains to tackle the carbon emissions. So I wonder what will the Class 180s go, after the new trains take over for the Grand Central franchise? Maybe they could go to another or new operator, either Northern Trains, CrossCountry, Grand Union, or Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway.

 

[Snow1964]

If the track access rights are permitted, and 180s replaced, they will be about 28 years old.

Fairly small non standard fleet is very unlikely to find a home with a big operator. Probably wouldn't be first choice of any open access operator. So good chance will be stored, later scrapped if not wanted.

However if there is a glut of successful open access applications, any other trains already taken up, they could easily be snapped up due to lack of alternatives short term, especially if the open access is less than say 7 years

 

[Energy]

Angel will do a some phone calls, they’ll spend a few years in storage, then get scrapped. Hopefully any useful parts can be used as 175 spares.

Why would anyone lease them now the 222s and the 8 221s are available?

 

[Helvellyn]

If GWR are taking the Class 175s then by the time the Class 180s become available they might prove a useful source of spares. I can't really see the attraction of any operator taking them on after GC.

The ex-EMR units could move to GC (giving them all 14) if they get an extended access agreement and until new units arrive to add resilience and support the couple of extra services they've applied for. Even if not all and a couple becomes spares donors.

 

[skyhigh]

Maybe they could go to another or new operator, either Northern Trains, CrossCountry, Grand Union, or Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway.

You must be joking.

They are a completely unreliable non-standard micro fleet. The only reason they're still in service is because GC hasn't been able to find enough suitable replacements.

As soon as they are out of service it'll be a one way trip to the scrapyard.

 

[D365]

Fairly small non standard fleet is very unlikely to find a home with a big operator. However if there is a glut of successful open access applications they could easily be snapped up due to lack of alternatives short term, especially if the open access is less than say 7 years

Even that sounds optimistic. Between Beacon's Class 221s (ex-Avanti) and Eversholt's Class 222s (ex-EMR), this will surely be enough units to fulfil the requirements of any upcoming open access operations.

 

[SeanG]

Could the intermediate coaches be used to lengthen some of the 2 car 175s?

 

[Clarence Yard]

No.

The 180 units have a bleak future after their current use finishes.

 

[vicbury]

If they have commonality with the Class 175, could they return to GWR to work Cardiff - Penzance or Cardiff - Portsmouth?

 

[JonathanH]

If they have commonality with the Class 175, could they return to GWR to work Cardiff - Penzance or Cardiff - Portsmouth?

Nothing points to that being likely.

 

[DanNCL]

A one way trip to Newport Docks or Rotherham is almost certainly what awaits, save perhaps for one unit into preservation. But to be honest I can’t see any preserved line wanting one so it wouldn’t be surprising if the entire class was scrapped.

180s are absolute lemons, always have been and always will be. It’s amazing they’ve even lasted this long.

Just because there’s older stuff still on the network doesn’t mean the 180s should stay.

 

[brad465]

Their future is getting rid of my facial hair and storing my baked beans.

 

[dgl]

No.

The 180 units have a bleak future after their current use finishes.

Probably not so bleak for the staff keeping them on going (assuming they remain employed) or the fire and rescue service!

 

[Wuggie Norple]

Could the intermediate coaches be used to lengthen some of the 2 car 175s?

That occurred to me too, but on checking, I see that the Class 180 intermediate cars have different engines and transmissions (geared for 125mph) to the 175s, so I think there would be potential maintenance/spares stocking issues.

 

[bramling]

When I've heard that Grand Central has applied to extend its track access rights on the East Coast Main Line until 2038, they will replace the 10 Class 180 fleets with a new Bi-Mode Trains to tackle the carbon emissions. So I wonder what will the Class 180s go, after the new trains take over for the Grand Central franchise? Maybe they could go to another or new operator, either Northern Trains, CrossCountry, Grand Union, or Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway.

I can’t see any further use, unless there’s a sudden magical upturn in their reliability, which is unlikely. In theory they would be a reasonable fit for GWR to work alongside the 175s, but due to their history I can’t see anyone wanting to take on the liability that would come with that.

So I’d tend to agree with the other posts on here, that it will be scrap. The only question is whether the owner bothers to store them for a while, and whether anyone takes a couple on for project type stuff.

 

[stevieinselby]

If they have commonality with the Class 175, could they return to GWR to work Cardiff - Penzance or Cardiff - Portsmouth?

GWR have already got rid of them twice, I doubt they will want them back for a third time!

 

[Wolfie]

Angel will do a some phone calls, they’ll spend a few years in storage, then get scrapped. Hopefully any useful parts can be used as 175 spares.

Why would anyone lease them now the 222s and the 8 221s are available?

The engines might serve as 221/222 spares

 

[Energy]

The engines might serve as 221/222 spares

Possibly. The QSK19 is still made by Cummins so spare parts are hardly a problem, but I’m sure Siemens (185s), Alstom (Voyagers) and whoever maintains the rebuilt 73s would happily take on some spares for a good price.

 

[Meerkat]

Are they too short* and unreliable for a spot hire/tour operator to be interested if the price is right?
Wont have the HSTs wide route clearance of course.

*Can you bin driving cars and create longer units?

 

[skyhigh]

Can you bin driving cars and create longer units?

Not easily.

 

[dgl]

I suppose as to spot hire use, they are unreliable as it is, being unused for long periods will surely only make that worse.

 

[HSTEd]

I suppose the Network Rail 125mph New Measurement train ("The Flying Banana") might need replacment at some point in the near future.
They might save one unit, but their reliability will not help them win that competition!

 

[trainswitheddy]

It's a shame as I've heard they're relatively comfortable units, if I'm being completely honest I will be sad to see them leave GC as they're the last bit of the ECML that's remained unchanged since I was little. Obviously, the customers deserve a reliable experience and it's a massive shame the adelantes didn't provide that.

Spot hire would definitely be nice for summer extras etc for relief services but as said above long term storage wouldn't help much with reliability I wouldn't of thought either - and keeping a fleet maintained year round for possible summer specials isn't particularly profitable.
I think with EMR in their final days they were used on FootEx relief trains or something?

 

[507020]

They’ll be going nowhere.

If Grand Central’s track access agreement is extended, they’ll be staying on their current services for the foreseeable future.

 

[D365]

They’ll be going nowhere.

If Grand Central’s track access agreement is extended, they’ll be staying on their current services for the foreseeable future.

excellent.

 

[Wolfie]

They’ll be going nowhere.

If Grand Central’s track access agreement is extended, they’ll be staying on their current services for the foreseeable future.

Great. That's the ECML screwed for the next decade plus then. The only place those unreliable heaps of junk belong is a Gillette package.

 

[43096]

I suppose the Network Rail 125mph New Measurement train ("The Flying Banana") might need replacment at some point in the near future.
They might save one unit, but their reliability will not help them win that competition!

Unlikely given that the NMT has recently had significant work done with overhauled engines, major exams and ETCS fitment.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Maybe they could go to another or new operator, either Northern Trains, CrossCountry, Grand Union, or Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway.

The 180s had a short stint at Northern many years ago operating to/from Hazel Grove. Can't see Northern taking them back on.

 

[Wolfie]

When I've heard that Grand Central has applied to extend its track access rights on the East Coast Main Line until 2038, they will replace the 10 Class 180 fleets with a new Bi-Mode Trains to tackle the carbon emissions. So I wonder what will the Class 180s go, after the new trains take over for the Grand Central franchise? Maybe they could go to another or new operator, either Northern Trains, CrossCountry, Grand Union, or Wrexham Shropshire & Midlands Railway.

Why would any sane operator want unreliable old junk. A new operator could trash their reputation. Voyagers and 158s will be available and are a much better option.

Strip the 180s for parts (e.g. the diesel engines) then off to Gillette....

 

[Kite159]

They’ll be going nowhere.

If Grand Central’s track access agreement is extended, they’ll be staying on their current services for the foreseeable future.

Didn't Grand Central mention they were looking into getting new bi-modal trains if their track access agreement was extended. Maybe a 5 coach version of the CAF bi-mode being made for LNER unless they can come to some sort of deal with Hiatchi