Future Of Caledonian Sleeper Class 86s/87

[Mag_seven]

87002 also carried that awful "Porterbrook" purple livery for a while.

 

[DJH1971]

Any more news of the future of 86401?

 

[DBS92042]

Any more news of the future of 86401?

I believe it's still at Wembley, not sure what happening with it though considering it's almost a year since it came off lease.

 

[TimboM]

86401 has been providing ETH to the ex-LNER Mk4 short set that’s at Wembley for training etc ahead of the Grand Central Blackpool services.

 

[D365]

It figures that ACLG are still getting use from 401. Surprised that they haven’t posted a news update, unless confidentiality precludes them from doing so.

 

[DJH1971]

Also, I thought Class 86 (and Class 87) locos were not compatible with Mk4 stock.

 

[D365]

Also, I thought Class 86 (and Class 87) loco's were not compatible with Mk4 stock.

The Mk4 coaching stock uses a standard 1000V DC ETS supply. From what it sounds, 86401 is essentially being used as a transformer-rectifier; 25kV AC to 1000V DC.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Also, I thought Class 86 (and Class 87) locos were not compatible with Mk4 stock.

How different (internally) is a class 90 from an 87? I thought I read somewhere that the 90s were originally going to be a new subclass of 87s, if so why can 90s work with mark 4s but not 87s?

 

[DJH1971]

How different (internally) is a class 90 from an 87? I thought I read somewhere that the 90s were originally going to be a new subclass of 87s, if so why can 90s work with mark 4s but not 87s?

Thought it was about compatibility with the UIC system that Mk4's and Class 90's have, but Class 86 & Class 87's do not have

 

[Murray J]

attached is a photo from 13th December showing 87002 and 86101 in eastleigh works, by the looks of things it hasn't had livery applied yet.

 

[DJH1971]

attached is a photo from 13th December showing 87002 and 86101 in eastleigh works, by the looks of things it hasn't had livery applied yet.

What livery will it be getting next?

 

[Murray J]

no idea, just to be clear they're not my photos. my guess is at least one will be put into intercity livery and/or BR blue/electric blue.

 

[DBS92042]

86401 is booked to work the 0M43 Wembley to Carnforth today (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P90132/2020-02-14/detailed).
I wonder if West Coast Railways are its new owners?

 

[ExRes]

86401 is booked to work the 0M43 Wembley to Carnforth today (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P90132/2020-02-14/detailed).
I wonder if West Coast Railways are its new owners?

Info on WNXX says that is the case, it should look 'interesting' in WCRC sludge, if ever there was a company that really did need a change of livery

 

[DBS92042]

Info on WNXX says that is the case, it should look 'interesting' in WCRC sludge, if ever there was a company that really did need a change of livery

Hopefully they chose to do a BR electric blue similar to 86259 seeing as that looks miles better than the WCRC maroon.

 

[Flying Snail]

I thought ACLG were a preservation group, how does selling their "preserved" locos to commercial operators fit in with that?

 

[ExRes]

I thought ACLG were a preservation group, how does selling their "preserved" locos to commercial operators fit in with that?

As I understand it there wasn't the work available for the 86s to pay their way, the group chose to use their funds on their other locos

 

[43096]

I thought ACLG were a preservation group, how does selling their "preserved" locos to commercial operators fit in with that?

They appear to have become the "AC Early Experiments and Oddball Prototype Group". It seems rather short sighted not to have an example of the most numerous electric loco class we've had and an indecent haste to dispose of locos after the GBRf contract finished. That the locos have ended up sold for mainline use with LSL and WCRC - both organisations that have hired in locos from preservation - makes it even stranger. All smacks of there not being the appetite to keep them.

Shame because the ACLG was for many years a highly regarded group, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that somewhere along the way they've lost the plot.

 

[The Bear]

The ACLG have now confirmed the sale of 401 to WCRC on the news page of their website:
https://www.aclocogroup.co.uk/news.php

Sale of 86401
Posted on 14th February 2020 11:26

86401 has been sold to West Coast Railways. The sale of the locomotive will see it remain in the UK and operational on the UK's rail network.

 

[superjohn]

I thought ACLG were a preservation group, how does selling their "preserved" locos to commercial operators fit in with that?

They also have to be a realistic group. They couldn’t find more mainline work and electric locos can’t generate an income on preserved lines as diesels can. They need to make ends meet and if the sale of the locos helps towards that then it is a sensible decision. There are still class 86 locos in service. What’s to say they won’t be able to pick up a bargain (or better yet, a donation) from Freightliner in due course.

Hard decisions have to be made in preservation. The work done on the 89 suggests they have a plan and they are following it.

 

[The Bear]

Hopefully they chose to do a BR electric blue similar to 86259 seeing as that looks miles better than the WCRC maroon.

Like yourself I sincerely hope it doesn't get dipped in the usual high gloss carriage marroon.

I thought ACLG were a preservation group, how does selling their "preserved" locos to commercial operators fit in with that?

I think 86101, 86401 & 87002 were always seen as commercial by the ACLG hierarchy and have had to pay their way.
Look at 86213 - once the work as a depot shunting/ETH supply loco dried up off it went.

As I understand it there wasn't the work available for the 86s to pay their way, the group chose to use their funds on their other locos

That is a fair point and also if taken on by another operator there would probably have to be a significant amount of crew training bearing in mind although similar we're effectively talking about 3 unique locos which will have their own handling characteristics.
Only some of GBRF, Freightliner, WCRC & now LSL drivers who will currently sign Tap-changers.

They appear to have become the "AC Early Experiments and Oddball Prototype Group". It seems rather short sighted not to have an example of the most numerous electric loco class we've had and an indecent haste to dispose of locos after the GBRf contract finished. That the locos have ended up sold for mainline use with LSL and WCRC - both organisations that have hired in locos from preservation - makes it even stranger. All smacks of there not being the appetite to keep them.

Shame because the ACLG was for many years a highly regarded group, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that somewhere along the way they've lost the plot.

Unless anyone can tell me different I believe most the profits from the GBRF/Sleeper hire contract has been ploughed into 89001 which they must have some kind of master plan for.
As for the two early AC's that could technically be made operation (the 81 & the 85), from what I've read mainline is not an aspiration.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Having never had an 82/83/84 for haulage it's a shame one of them couldn't be restored for mainline/Railtour use. CDF-PAD seems a good wheeze once the tunnel is sorted.

 

[xotGD]

Having never had an 82/83/84 for haulage it's a shame one of them couldn't be restored for mainline/Railtour use. CDF-PAD seems a good wheeze once the tunnel is sorted.

Agreed. I regret not taking 82s or 83s when I had the chance. Just stood spotting at Carlisle instead!

It's a bit strange seeing people getting all misty eyed over an 86 when back in the day you'd curse when one turned up instead of a Roarer.

 

[Iskra]

Has an electric loco ever carried Maroon in the UK?

 

[Iskra]

Agreed. I regret not taking 82s or 83s when I had the chance. Just stood spotting at Carlisle instead!

It's a bit strange seeing people getting all misty eyed over an 86 when back in the day you'd curse when one turned up instead of a Roarer.

Fashions change.

I was born in 1990, so an 86 has always been something to get misty eyed over ever since they were replaced by 390's/221's. My age group can't be fussy, any old loco will do!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Has an electric loco ever carried Maroon in the UK?

The 309s carried maroon when new. I think there was a model of an 87 in a fantasy large logo maroon livery in RE mag many years ago.

 

[James James]

Thought it was about compatibility with the UIC system that Mk4's and Class 90's have, but Class 86 & Class 87's do not have

Isn't UIC primarily relevant for the door control/intercom? If yes, could still be using 86/87s for Mk4 for heating/dragging, as long as they aren't in passenger service. (I could be completely wrong here though.)

(Yeah I know who the UIC really are, but the primary usage I know of is in reference to the 13/18 pole UIC cables used on many continental trains.)

 

[43096]

I think 86101, 86401 & 87002 were always seen as commercial by the ACLG hierarchy and have had to pay their way.
Look at 86213 - once the work as a depot shunting/ETH supply loco dried up off it went.

Unless anyone can tell me different I believe most the profits from the GBRF/Sleeper hire contract has been ploughed into 89001 which they must have some kind of master plan for.

Given that at least one of the locos now sold was effectively donated, the view of them as commercial might be viewed rather differently by others.

Must be a lot of money going into 89001 given the profits from selling the 3 locos and the GBRf hire contract should have been pretty lucrative, too.

 

[TheBeard]

I think from a good look years ago that the 85 is practically operational and a lot of switch gear on another early one, and a couple are stripped. That said. NR won't allow any of these explosive locos anywhere near its wires!
Therefore, they labour on Badger, which is their pet. if the 87 goes abroad, it will be a shame I think there'd be scope for tours with the 86/87 but they seem to be focused on the 89. Perhaps its the BLackpool Thunderbird to be?

 

[captainbigun]

Some facts....

The 87 wasn’t donated, there was a complex arrangement, but it mostly definitely wasn’t a donation.

The 87 has not gone abroad!

Some folk clearly can’t read or don’t want to read. This topic has been well covered in numerous places.