Future of Class 379

[bramling]

I have a thought, some class 700s run on Great Northern services still operating under the Thameslink brand, if Great Northern were to have some 379s could they could replace the class 700s on these services?

Yes they could. 8x 4-car units would see off the 700/0s, though this leads to a question of where those 700/0s go, and potentially whether it’s a good use of resources / money to be leasing 379s whilst 700s are spare.

The only other potential issue is whether there needs to be some element of GN 700/0 work in order to keep up crew knowledge on them, or alternatively whether some drivers could ditch 700 traction and there be a saving there.

 

[NSE]

Before 313s were replaced there was a decent amount of 8 car 377s to Bognor. Now they are all 4 coaches until they reach Horsham. Just shows how southern have to stretch there fleet to the limit.

They’re still 12 coach (8 to Bognor) during the peak to my knowledge. Also, off peak, 4 cars is fine for Bognor down the Arun Valley.

If longer formations were to run on the Arun Valley Line, they should go to the Southampton/Portsmouth portions as they actually get busy on the weekend

Platform lengths down the West Coastway would mean a lot of SDO I believe!

 

[Mikey C]

Yes they could. 8x 4-car units would see off the 700/0s, though this leads to a question of where those 700/0s go, and potentially whether it’s a good use of resources / money to be leasing 379s whilst 700s are spare.

The only other potential issue is whether there needs to be some element of GN 700/0 work in order to keep up crew knowledge on them, or alternatively whether some drivers could ditch 700 traction and there be a saving there.

The 8 car 700s would be useful for some of the inner London Southern routes. Indeed with their large standing capacity and fast door opening, they're more suited than the 377s.

 

[jon0844]

The only downside is they'll all get totally trashed even more than they do now (just look at the Sevenoaks services). Maybe if they repainted them in darker colours inside, or used vinyls in the toilets, and replaced the egress panel perspex with metal like the 717s, they'd fare better.

I can't remember what the 379 interiors were likely (I seem to recall they were quite light too?) but if used exclusively on GN services they may be okay.

 

[Pdf]

Any idea why the 377s don't get trashed on these routes?

 

[jon0844]

700s appear like blank canvasses just inviting people to tag them, and also run up and down (often on bikes or scooters) because of the nice open aisles. Perhaps the electrostars contain people more effectively?!

 

[Mzzzs]

Any idea why the 377s don't get trashed on these routes?

I think many people know there's no second staff member on the train with thameslink.

 

[ScotGG]

DOO and unstaffed stations invite trouble. Treat areas and people like an afterthought and some oblige.

 

[D365]

700s appear like blank canvasses just inviting people to tag them, and also run up and down (often on bikes or scooters) because of the nice open aisles. Perhaps the electrostars contain people more effectively?!

I've seen some nasty Desiro toilets - and not the contents!

 

[Fincra5]

The only downside is they'll all get totally trashed even more than they do now (just look at the Sevenoaks services). Maybe if they repainted them in darker colours inside, or used vinyls in the toilets, and replaced the egress panel perspex with metal like the 717s, they'd fare better.

I can't remember what the 379 interiors were likely (I seem to recall they were quite light too?) but if used exclusively on GN services they may be okay.

They don't get trashed on the GN... its, mostly, the RLUs that venture to the SouthEastern Network.

 

[NSE]

I commute daily on the 8 car trains (7000xx) and use the 12’s (7001xx) frequently. The 8 cars have far more graffiti in the toilets. I’m led to believe it’s due to them being hit when stabled on the Rainham route. Not sure how true. But seems plausible to some extent.

 

[bramling]

I commute daily on the 8 car trains (7000xx) and use the 12’s (7001xx) frequently. The 8 cars have far more graffiti in the toilets. I’m led to believe it’s due to them being hit when stabled on the Rainham route. Not sure how true. But seems plausible to some extent.

The general feeling seems to be that it is Rainham and Sevenoaks. Certainly when the GN 700/0 fleet was captive there wasn’t an issue, and the 700/1s don’t seem to get hit to the same extent (though they certainly aren’t immune).

Wherever the 700s are being trashed it isn’t the GN side, there has thankfully never been a history of trains getting trashed there, and long may that continue.

 

[RichJF]

Any idea why the 377s don't get trashed on these routes?

They sometimes do! A 377/1 was plastered all over the side (minus windows) a few weeks ago at East Croydon

 

[Mikey C]

The general feeling seems to be that it is Rainham and Sevenoaks. Certainly when the GN 700/0 fleet was captive there wasn’t an issue, and the 700/1s don’t seem to get hit to the same extent (though they certainly aren’t immune).

Wherever the 700s are being trashed it isn’t the GN side, there has thankfully never been a history of trains getting trashed there, and long may that continue.

A bit of a downside for GN passengers of being attached to Thameslink, getting the trashed trains from south of the river.

 

[bramling]

A bit of a downside for GN passengers of being attached to Thameslink, getting the trashed trains from south of the river.

Yep, one of many.

With the slimmed down timetables now, we don't even get the extra services. Just the unreliability and trashed trains.

 

[MML]

Someone needs to design a system which detects the application of graffiti on the toilet walls and triggers a locking mechanism on the toilet door to trap the little scrote inside. Preferably for days or weeks.

 

[Energy]

Someone needs to design a system which detects the application of graffiti on the toilet walls and triggers a locking mechanism on the toilet door to trap the little scrote inside. Preferably for days or weeks.

If we're being realistic you could deter graffiti in the 700 toilets by applying some vinyls of the city skyline. It isn't a surprise that a white canvas gets tagged.

 

[Millercool21]

They’re still 12 coach (8 to Bognor) during the peak to my knowledge. Also, off peak, 4 cars is fine for Bognor down the Arun Valley.



Platform lengths down the West Coastway would mean a lot of SDO I believe!

Yeah you are correct, 4 is enough for the Arun Valley.

 

[Trainbike46]

If we're being realistic you could deter graffiti in the 700 toilets by applying some vinyls of the city skyline. It isn't a surprise that a white canvas gets tagged.

And if the vinyl was tagged, you can replace the vinyl for relatively low cost

 

[zwk500]

And if the vinyl was tagged, you can replace the vinyl for relatively low cost

Tbh putting clear vinyls over any high-risk targets (including exteriors of trains) so that any depot can peel it off and replace it as soon as they discover the tag in the morning with only minimal disruption to service should be standard practice.

 

[XCTurbostar]

It's been a while since we discussed the 379s. It's all been a bit quiet on the re-use front, how much longer are akiem likely to hold them without a lease before seeking sale/disposal?

 

[Mamorin]

Could have sworn I read on another thread that the 379s are reserved for GN. Can't find the thread though.

 

[paul1609]

They’re still 12 coach (8 to Bognor) during the peak to my knowledge. Also, off peak, 4 cars is fine for Bognor down the Arun Valley.



Platform lengths down the West Coastway would mean a lot of SDO I believe!

Its not just SDO, more than 4 cars means they obstruct the automatic half barrier crossings at a number of intermediate stations with the pick up shoes live. Slam door stock wasnt such an issue because they only had shoes on the outer bogies.

 

[pompeyfan]

Its not just SDO, more than 4 cars means they obstruct the automatic half barrier crossings at a number of intermediate stations with the pick up shoes live. Slam door stock wasnt such an issue because they only had shoes on the outer bogies.

There are a couple of booked 8 cars to Portsmouth that don’t cause issues, and when there’s disruption or shortage of drivers it’s not uncommon for 8s to continue to Portsmouth or Southampton to can’t be that much of an issue. Is there anything that prevents 12s to Portsmouth or Southampton? I thought the DOO case on the far West Coastway was for 8s only but not 100% sure on that.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's been a while since we discussed the 379s. It's all been a bit quiet on the re-use front, how much longer are akiem likely to hold them without a lease before seeking sale/disposal?

+

Could have sworn I read on another thread that the 379s are reserved for GN. Can't find the thread though.

I reckon we are waiting to see who will blink first - TOCs (deterioration) or Akiem (price).

 

[JonathanH]

Could have sworn I read on another thread that the 379s are reserved for GN. Can't find the thread though.

Yes, posted by '87015' here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-class-379.163185/page-30#post-6498270

 

[paul1609]

There are a couple of booked 8 cars to Portsmouth that don’t cause issues, and when there’s disruption or shortage of drivers it’s not uncommon for 8s to continue to Portsmouth or Southampton to can’t be that much of an issue. Is there anything that prevents 12s to Portsmouth or Southampton? I thought the DOO case on the far West Coastway was for 8s only but not 100% sure on that.

Its trains that stop at Fishbourne and Nutbourne in the down direction and Bosham in the Up direction. Currently these stops are by the Littlehampton to Portsmouth service but that is withdrawn in the latest round of Southern cuts. The stops will instead be made by the London to Portsmouth services which will skipstop the minor stations.
DCO runs 12 car as far west as Chichester from Hove. I doubt thats an issue tbh.

 

[pompeyfan]

Its trains that stop at Fishbourne and Nutbourne in the down direction and Bosham in the Up direction. Currently these stops are by the Littlehampton to Portsmouth service but that is withdrawn in the latest round of Southern cuts. The stops will instead be made by the London to Portsmouth services which will skipstop the minor stations.
DCO runs 12 car as far west as Chichester from Hove. I doubt thats an issue tbh.

Train 1C66 is booked an 8 car and calls at both those stations.

Realtime Trains | 1C66 2135 London Victoria to Portsmouth & Southsea | 29/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 1C66 2135 departure from London Victoria to Portsmouth & Southsea on 29/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mamorin]

Yes, posted by '87015' here - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/future-of-class-379.163185/page-30#post-6498270

Thanks for confirming that, tried looking for the post but could not find it.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

If we're being realistic you could deter graffiti in the 700 toilets by applying some vinyls of the city skyline. It isn't a surprise that a white canvas gets tagged.

Edward Pond must be due for a revival:

The Rolling Art Galleries of Network SouthEast (Edward Pond murals and NSE route badges)

Once upon a time, British Rail introduced millions of its passengers to one of the largest public art programmes ever seen. It’s been almost forgotten today except by a few, and that’s …

thebeautyoftransport.com