Future of Dublin-Belfast

[JonasB]

Does anyone know if there are any updates planned or discussed to the Enterprise? Two cities that big and that close to each other should have a pretty big demand for travel.

 

[JonathanH]

Two cities that big and that close to each other should have a pretty big demand for travel.

Just because two cities are big doesn't immediately generate demand for travel. It will also depend on the degree of family links, the desire to go to each city for shopping and leisure, sporting and cultural ties.

Both railways prioritise the suburban rail networks over the enterprise service so the enterprise is very slow through the built up area of Greater Dublin and Greater Belfast on what is a two-track railway. Moreover, the amount of rolling stock available is limited.

Coaches and road transport are competitors to the railway on the corridor. In addition, demand for Dublin doesn't only come from Belfast. Going first into Belfast and then using the train isn't necessarily the quickest option in many cases.

 

[berneyarms]

There is an all island Strategic Rail Review being undertaken jointly by the Irish Government and the NI Executive at present, which is looking at future rail investment throughout the island.

The railway companies have indicated that they would be on the route is for an hourly service, but that additional rolling stock will be needed to deliver that.

As Jonathan says, significant infrastructure investment would be required to deliver real improvements in journey time, particularly between Dublin and Drogheda and between Portadown and Belfast. Additional tracks would be needed to facilitate overtaking of suburban services.

Being honest, there has been talk about upgrading the Enterprise service for years, but it keeps getting pushed back.

 

[jamesontheroad]

The original order for DeDietrich stock was never enough for more than two-hourly service, so until now, attempts to improve service without additional investment in rolling stock would have required a kind of two-tier service with either NIR or IÉ railcars providing some of the departures. As @JonathanH writes, the bus is faster and there are now private players (eg Aircoach) competiting with Translink and Bus Éireann on much improved roads and the motorway. As @berneyarms writes both Dublin and Belfast are throttled by narrow two-track approaches that are more valuable for suburban services.

Additionally, a legacy of the Troubles is that public transport in NI has had to work very hard to attract people out of their cars, which for a long time was the safest and most reliable means of getting around. NIR have done amazing things with new trains, new infrastructure and new services, but growing passenger numbers any further confronts fairly intractable issues about population density (Belfast is very suburban) and onward connections. The train just isn't very convenient unless you happen to live or work in the environs of (not very central) Belfast Central.

 

[nanstallon]

I have to say that I enjoy the scenery on the rail route from Belfast to Dublin, but if I just want to get from Dublin to Belfast or vice versa, the bus is far better - cheaper and more frequent and serves Dublin Airport. No contest if I'm flying in from UK to Dublin and want to go to Belfast.

 

[JonasB]

Thanks for the answers! Lack of rolling stock seems like an easy problem to solve if there is a will. I don't think e.g. Stadler will have any problems fitting broad gauge bogies to a DMU.

Getting stuck behind a suburban train seems like a bigger problem and will require a bit more money to solve.

 

[XAM2175]

Lack of rolling stock seems like an easy problem to solve if there is a will. I don't think e.g. Stadler will have any problems fitting broad gauge bogies to a DMU.

In addition to the firms that have already supplied stock to CIE and NIR, Alstom, Bombardier, and Siemens all have modern 5'3" bogies available as a result of orders from Australia.

 

[craigybagel]

Getting hold of rolling stock is easy enough - both Irish Rail and NIR have managed to do that pretty often over the years. Actually justifying the expense is the hard part. At the moment there is a lot of lower hanging fruit for both companies to worry about.

 

[fgwrich]

Another problem you do have in upgrading the Enterprise Corridor, is while there has been a passing desire to consider Electrification for the route - how do you do it? Do you expand the 1,500 V DC of the DART system, or do you wire the entire route up at a more modern 25KV and convert the DART? Or, do you go for a Duel Voltage Rolling Stock?

 

[edwin_m]

Another problem you do have in upgrading the Enterprise Corridor, is while there has been a passing desire to consider Electrification for the route - how do you do it? Do you expand the 1,500 V DC of the DART system, or do you wire the entire route up at a more modern 25KV and convert the DART? Or, do you go for a Duel Voltage Rolling Stock?

There's only one way to settle that... fight! I think you actually mean Dual voltage. Probably not a big deal as there are many fleets that run under both 25kV and 1500V, much of the RER in Paris for example. The fact Irish Rail are procuring new 1500V units for DART will lock in the existing 1500V system for at least 30 years, unless there's an option to add a transformer.

 

[bib]

According to this doc (Railway Investment Priorisation Strategy (infrastructure-ni.gov.uk)) the trains will need replaced in about 5 years, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was sooner given there seem to be reliability issues.
It also talks about potentially adding a third track from Adelaide to Great Victoria St/ Transport Hub, though I'm not sure if that's still in the plans.


Its not a particularly quick service. Although the units and max lines speeds are 90mph I think, it takes about 2h10 to do maybe 120 miles, so averages out at about 55mph, and it works out a similar speed for the Drogheda-Portadown section. At 2h10, journey times are similar to the express bus, and only slightly quicker than the airport stop(2h20) and Translink stopping service (2h30). But if you're not travelling from city centre to city centre then driving will probably be much quicker, North Dublin - Belfast can be done in 1hr 40 (~100mi)if you avoid the traffic. Additionally the public transport integration in Belfast isn't great, though this will improve with the Transport Hub (despite the lack of connection to the BRT 'Glider' network).

The strategic rail review doc does mention exploring the feasibility of up to and over 200kph speeds, which is probably what would be needed to make the route competitive with car journey times. Eg London - Nottingham is about 130m on MML and takes about 1h40 with 3 intermediate stops. I'm guessing costs would be prohibitive, given the previously mentioned issues with suburban services, unless it were some sort of politically driven 'reunification' project if that ever happens. Wouldn't be too dissimilar demographically to Prague-Brno in the Czech Rep where they're planning a high speed route for up to 320kph operation. If they did that then sub-1hr journey times would probably shift the mode share equation quite a bit.

 

[hexagon789]

Its not a particularly quick service. Although the units and max lines speeds are 90mph I think, it takes about 2h10 to do maybe 120 miles, so averages out at about 55mph, and it works out a similar speed for the Drogheda-Portadown section. At 2h10, journey times are similar to the express bus, and only slightly quicker than the airport stop(2h20) and Translink stopping service (2h30). But if you're not travelling from city centre to city centre then driving will probably be much quicker, North Dublin - Belfast can be done in 1hr 40 (~100mi)if you avoid the traffic. Additionally the public transport integration in Belfast isn't great, though this will improve with the Transport Hub (despite the lack of connection to the BRT 'Glider' network).

It was quicker when first upgraded to 90mph in the late-1990s it took 1h51-55 mostly, a few took 2+ hours due to extra stops. The congestion from augmented suburban services at both Belfast and Dublin ends really slows it down; it is now on near identical timings to the 1970s despite linespeed back then being only 70mph.