GB plate no longer valid?

[Noddy]

Are the country oval stickers used outwith Europe?

Ostensibly yes, but as far as I know it's nowhere near to the same extent.

I suspect that oval stickers aren’t used so much because most countries that sign up fully to the convention have the country code embedded in the registration plate, so you don’t need the oval. It’s an issue here because the UK is signed up but it isn’t a requirement to have the code in the number plate (presumably over Northern Ireland sensitivities). Probably also the same reason why Ireland hasn’t signed up to the convention at all.

So you’re unlikely to see ovals abroad. And obviously some foreign countries we are culturally familiar with (USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand) aren’t signed up at all so just do their own thing.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Are the country oval stickers used outwith Europe?

I still find these stickers to be completely pointless in the era of having country codes on number plates.

It’s an issue here because the UK is signed up but it isn’t a requirement to have the code in the number plate (presumably over Northern Ireland sensitivities). Probably also the same reason why Ireland hasn’t signed up to the convention at all.

The UK could easily deal with that by negotiating an exception allowing for specific NIR plates to be used.

Ireland is using the country code as routine, though.

 

[Noddy]

I still find these stickers to be completely pointless in the era of having country codes on number plates.

Indeed, but there is no requirement to have the country code incorporated in UK registration plates and the vast majority don't so ovals will be around for a while.

The UK could easily deal with that by negotiating an exception allowing for specific NIR plates to be used.

Ireland is using the country code as routine, though.

Ireland isn't signed up to the Vienna convention. This gives it freedom not to have to apply the regulations on country codes to foreign vehicles in Ireland. So UK (inc Northern Irish) vehicles don't have to display that code (either in the plate or as an oval sticker) when in Ireland.

While the convention (and/or the United Nations in general) may have some wriggle room, sub-state regional identifiers such as 'NIR' are not permitted. If the UN was to allow NIR identifiers you can bet your bottom dollar other countries or regions across the world wanting independence would seek to get identifiers as well. Then you'd have further issues, for example would the Spanish and French Basques/Catalans be given the same code, or different ones related to their 'host' state.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Indeed, but there is no requirement to have the country code incorporated in UK registration plates and the vast majority don't so ovals will be around for a while.

I really don't understand why. The country code in the registration plates makes a lot of sense, but it's an example of the UK being different 'just because'.

While the convention (and/or the United Nations in general) may have some wriggle room, sub-state regional identifiers such as 'NIR' are not permitted. If the UN was to allow NIR identifiers you can bet your bottom dollar other countries or regions across the world wanting independence would seek to get identifiers as well. Then you'd have further issues, for example would the Spanish and French Basques/Catalans be given the same code, or different ones related to their 'host' state.

Well, wait a second. We have GBZ for Gibraltar, GBM for the Isle of Man and so on. These are arguably sub-state regional identifiers, even if those territories aren't legally part of the UK. Aland has also been pushing for the use of AX plates, and you can sometimes see people with AX country codes added to the official Aland plates. I don't see anything in the convention that prohibits the use of regional identifiers, only that they have to be officially declared to the UN. So, SCO/NIR/WAL/ENG could easily be declared to the UN and used internationally.

In fact, checking just now, Gibraltar/the Isle of Man/etc didn't sign the Vienna convention. The UK (on their behalf) extended the convention to Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar only in 2019, presumably as to ensure that their number plates remained legally recognised after Brexit. The Isle of Man remains outside it, although they issue GBM plates and they don't use GB/UK ovals.

 

[danm14]

Ireland isn't signed up to the Vienna convention. This gives it freedom not to have to apply the regulations on country codes to foreign vehicles in Ireland. So UK (inc Northern Irish) vehicles don't have to display that code (either in the plate or as an oval sticker) when in Ireland.

Ireland does not require any foreign vehicle to display such a code. In fact, I believe it is the only country in the world that rather pointlessly requires its own vehicles (well, those registered since 1992 anyway) to display it, but not foreign vehicles.

The UK could easily deal with that by negotiating an exception allowing for specific NIR plates to be used.

NI or NIR would be no more acceptable than GB or UK to many in the nationalist community. "Northern Ireland" is not a politically neutral term, especially among people in their 40s and older.

 

[Noddy]

I really don't understand why. The country code in the registration plates makes a lot of sense, but it's an example of the UK being different 'just because'.



Well, wait a second. We have GBZ for Gibraltar, GBM for the Isle of Man and so on. These are arguably sub-state regional identifiers, even if those territories aren't legally part of the UK. Aland has also been pushing for the use of AX plates, and you can sometimes see people with AX country codes added to the official Aland plates. I don't see anything in the convention that prohibits the use of regional identifiers, only that they have to be officially declared to the UN. So, SCO/NIR/WAL/ENG could easily be declared to the UN and used internationally.

In fact, checking just now, Gibraltar/the Isle of Man/etc didn't sign the Vienna convention. The UK (on their behalf) extended the convention to Jersey, Guernsey and Gibraltar only in 2019, presumably as to ensure that their number plates remained legally recognised after Brexit. The Isle of Man remains outside it, although they issue GBM plates and they don't use GB/UK ovals.

As you yourself have pointed out the Isle of Man, Channel Islands and British overseas territories are not part of the United Kingdom. They are completely different territories which don’t have any democratic representation in the UK and recognised as such by the UN.

Aland might well be pushing for them to be recognised internationally but I very much doubt they will for the reasons I’ve stated.

 

[XAM2175]

I really don't understand why. The country code in the registration plates makes a lot of sense, but it's an example of the UK being different 'just because'.

In fairness, the vast majority of vehicles registered in GB will never be driven outside of GB, so there was never the same convenience value to having the national identifier on the plate as there was to people in, say, Belgium. Obviously it would have been simpler to remove the choice and mandate the identifier-on-plate style, but I can only imagine that it's been judged unacceptable at some point - as the freedom to highlight a certain regional identity, or to deliberately avoid EU symbols, is clearly important to a portion of the driving public.

It's not wholly without precedent either - British drivers have far greater freedom in specifying the appearance of number plates than do people in most of the rest of the world.

We have GBZ for Gibraltar, GBM for the Isle of Man and so on. These are arguably sub-state regional identifiers, even if those territories aren't legally part of the UK. ... I don't see anything in the convention that prohibits the use of regional identifiers, only that they have to be officially declared to the UN. So, SCO/NIR/WAL/ENG could easily be declared to the UN and used internationally.

As you yourself have pointed out the Isle of Man, Channel Islands and British overseas territories are not part of the United Kingdom.

Bingo. They're represented internationally by the UK, but they're by no means regions of Britain. Indeed many even have their own aircraft registers (Isle of Man = M; Gibraltar = VP-G; Guernsey = 2; and so on).

 

[Noddy]

It's not wholly without precedent either - British drivers have far greater freedom in specifying the appearance of number plates than do people in most of the rest of the world.

Indeed, there is great flexibility:

Displaying number plates

How to display number or licence plates, get plates made up, replace lost, damaged or stolen plates, and the national letters, flags and symbols you can display.

www.gov.uk

Flags, symbols and identifiers

You can display one of the following flags with identifying letters on the left-hand side of the number plate:

• Union flag (also known as the Union Jack)
• Cross of St George
• Cross of St Andrew - also known as the Saltire
• Red Dragon of Wales

The letters, or national identifiers, you can have are:

• UNITED KINGDOM, United Kingdom or UK
• GREAT BRITAIN, Great Britain or GB
• CYMRU, Cymru, CYM or Cym
• ENGLAND, England, ENG, Eng
• SCOTLAND, Scotland, SCO or Sco
• WALES or Wales

The flag must be above the identifier. You cannot have the flag or letters on the number plate margin, and neither can be more than 50 millimetres wide.

And even with this there will always be the desire for more options. If I lived in the Orkney, Shetland or Cornwall I’d much rather have that displayed on the reg than either Scotland or England but where do you stop?