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GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

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43096

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Karl Watts has been making noises but nothing confirmed in the public domain yet.
Karl Watts makes plenty of noise about lots of things, and yet...
- his company has just off-leased almost half of its locomotive fleet (the 57s)
- his company hasn't got a contract agreed for those Class 319 parcel unit conversions
I rather hope he does have something long-term lined up for the 93s, as stock moves that use 6 locos currently are not going to support 10 brand new locos.
 
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Karl Watts makes plenty of noise about lots of things, and yet...
- his company has just off-leased almost half of its locomotive fleet (the 57s)
- his company hasn't got a contract agreed for those Class 319 parcel unit conversions
I rather hope he does have something long-term lined up for the 93s, as stock moves that use 6 locos currently are not going to support 10 brand new locos.
Don't forget the ex-Heathrow 360s they bought.

To be fair, First Group put out a tender for some bi mode locomotives for TPE and Night Riviera... though no contract has been signed.
 

43096

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To be fair, First Group put out a tender for some bi mode locomotives for TPE and Night Riviera... though no contract has been signed.
The Class 93 is not going to be anywhere near powerful enough in non-electric mode for those requirements. A 93 wheezing over the Pennines or the South Devon banks with just its engine (and a chunk of that power used for train supply) cos the Duracells are flat ain't going to cut it.
 

43301

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Well, maybe not them specifically, but they are in talks about ordering bi modes to replace the 68s.

They put out an invitation to tender - which may or may not come to anything, and if it does it likely to take years.
 

train_lover

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6MW on electric is quoted by Stadler, which is just over 8,000hp.

What’s your source for the diesel, as there’s nothing in the Stadler press release that gives details of the engine?
The boss of GB.

Stadler EuroDual currently has a 2800kW Cat175-16 but the press release is quoting a a Stage 5 engine which that engine isn't. Assuming they are sticking with Caterpilliar then they do a 2100hp stage V but as they've not stated engine supplier would suggest options are still under review for that element.
Nice to see the investment but potentially is another negative against "no regret" freight electrification schemes.
They won't be having CAT engines. They are 2750hp. The class 99s in time will replace 66s and therefore need to do what the 66s currently do. 2100hp simply isn't enough.
 

JonathanH

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What degree of power upgrades will be needed to allow GBRf to make more use of electric locomotives? Is it enough to require specific upgrade works?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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They won't be having CAT engines. They are 2750hp. The class 99s in time will replace 66s and therefore need to do what the 66s currently do. 2100hp simply isn't enough.
There primarily an electric engine with medium power diesel to be more than last mile so will there really be a class 66 replacement more like a 92 one.

The 2100hp rating came from Caterpilliars current stage V compliant engines. MTU have engines rated upto 3200hp certified to stage 5 so there are alternatives if they will fit in the space available and that has to include plenty of tank capacity.
 

train_lover

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There primarily an electric engine with medium power diesel to be more than last mile so will there really be a class 66 replacement more like a 92 one.

The 2100hp rating came from Caterpilliars current stage V compliant engines. MTU have engines rated upto 3200hp certified to stage 5 so there are alternatives if they will fit in the space available and that has to include plenty of tank capacity.
No you are wrong on this. They are absolutely what will replace the GB 66s. The whole reason GB has ordered locos with 2750hp engines is so that they can do all of the work that 66s currently do. That isn't taking into account the electric side of the 99.

As for the 92s there's been ample talk about then on this thread. The fact is GB haven't announced what will happen to them. The word on the ground is they'll continue to do what they are doing now given the money spent on the fleet refurbishment. However a lot will depend on the 92 reliability going forward.
 

Suraggu

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The Wibble created on this forum about the class 99's replacing the class 92's has been absolutely hilarious!

This project has been years in the making and the plan that was theorised way back in 2019 was to push IM traffic which for GB predominantly 'runs under the wires' to a bi mode locomotive if possible.

30 class 66's displaced for other work, either current contracts or new ones due to commence.
 

train_lover

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The Wibble created on this forum about the class 99's replacing the class 92's has been absolutely hilarious!

This project has been years in the making and the plan that was theorised way back in 2019 was to push IM traffic which for GB predominantly 'runs under the wires' to a bi mode locomotive if possible.

30 class 66's displaced for other work, either current contracts or new ones due to commence.
Absolutely, the money that's been spent on the 92s will ensure that they'll keep going for years to come. It's also worth pointing out that the 99s won't have Dellners
 

172007

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The Class 93 is not going to be anywhere near powerful enough in non-electric mode for those requirements. A 93 wheezing over the Pennines or the South Devon banks with just its engine (and a chunk of that power used for train supply) cos the Duracells are flat ain't going to cut it.
I immagine the power will be blended. It. may well and we will only find out when the trains are up and running.

Blended power will basically come about that when on steep grades like the Devon banks the battery will make up the power difference the smaller engine lacks. When braking such as a car then regen will top the battery up. What most people don't spot is that it's quite possible that when going down hill or on the flat and at line speed the locomotive can run the diesal engine to charge the batteries too and I immangine it would make a Tesla rapid charger look rather puny.

Obviously this is all speculation but seems entirely reasonable. We have to stop thinking that on Diesal it only produces power from that source, just like we have to stop thinking when it's at line speed, stopped at a red, going through slow speed track layouts that the engine is throttled back when it can be at full tilt charging the battery up.
 

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Let's remember though that what a 93 can or can't do in this or a parallel universe is nothing to do with this thread, it's about freight only Class 99s
 

GB

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As others have said, these will be used for the Intermodal business, the 73's and 92's wont be going anywhere. Given the vast job of training drivers and shunters on the new locos I don't expect them to be on anything else unless its an emergency. The first loco won't turn a wheel for at least 3 years so the intermodal side would have grown to accommodate the extra loco's anyway.
 

geoffk

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Why are they giving it a ship classification when 94-96 & 98 aren't taken? Also, if they are just going to be Stadler EuroDuals, why not use the 93 classification? It feels like they're using new classifications for the sake of it, and soon, we'll run out.
Isn't 97 still used for departmental locomotives?
 

train_lover

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As others have said, these will be used for the Intermodal business, the 73's and 92's wont be going anywhere. Given the vast job of training drivers and shunters on the new locos I don't expect them to be on anything else unless its an emergency. The first loco won't turn a wheel for at least 3 years so the intermodal side would have grown to accommodate the extra loco's anyway
The 99s aren't just for intermodal
 

Class 170101

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How fast does the sleeper travel?
Real Time trains says its timed for a maximum speed of 75mph

So these new locos could be suitable if they are fitted with Electric Train Supply.
 

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There’s a new thread here to discuss the foibles of the TOPS numbering scheme…
 

GB

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Do GBRf even operate 20-odd intermodals?

Rough current estimate. These don't include the likes of Daventry or Tees and don't include stuff that is on the horizon.

15xFelixstowe
4L29/4M29 (Birch)
4L23/4M23 (Hams)
4L21/4E21 (Donny Rail Port)
4L20/4E20 (Masborough)
4L43/4E43 (iPort)
4L02/4M02 (Hams)
4L03/4E03 (Tinsley)
4L28/4E28 (iPort)
4L13/4E13 (Hams)
4L11/4E11 (Masborough)
4L07/4M07 (Birch)
4L04/4M04 (Hams)
4L14/4E14 (iPort)
4L18/4M18 (Trafford)
4L53/4E53 (Tinsley)

4xGateway
4L47/4M47 (Hams)
4L40/4M40 (East Mids Gateway)
4L67/4M69 (Birch)
4L98/4E97 (Masborough)

3xSouthampton
4O34/4E34 (iport)
4O19/4M19 (East Mids Gateway)
4O46/4M46 (Trafford)
Plus MOD traffic

1x Seaforth
4D62/4F62 (East Mids Gateway)
 
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train_lover

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Rough current estimate. These don't include the likes of Daventry or Tees and don't include stuff that is on the horizon.

13xFelixstowe
4L29/4M29 (Birch)
4L23/4M23 (Hams)
4L21/4E21 (Donny Rail Port)
4L20/4E20 (Masborough)
4L43/4E43 (iPort)
4L02/4M02 (Hams)
4L03/4E03 (Tinsley)
4L28/4E28 (iPort)
4L13/4E13 (Hams)
4L11/4E11 (Masborough)
4L07/4M07 (Birch)
4L18/4M18 (Trafford)
4L53/4E53 (Tinsley)

4x Gateway
4L47/4M47 (Hams)
4L40/4M40 (East Mids Gateway)
4L67/4M69 (Birch)
4L98/4E97 (Masborough)

3xSouthampton
4O34/4E34 (iport)
4O19/4M19 (East Mids Gateway)
4O46/4M46 (Trafford)
Plus MOD traffic
Cracking list that
 

GB

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It's certainly expanded over the years somewhat! Forgot 4L04/4M04 and 4L14/4E14, now added.
 
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