GBRF confirms conversion of Class 56s to Class 69s

[Strathclyder]

Here she is:

View attachment 95500

Gets a thumbs up from me! The shade of blue used may or may not be slightly different to the original and the logo may be oddly positioned on one side, but still a very smart bit of kit.

Two views of it en-route from Eastleigh to Longport at Tackley (copyright of Martin Loader) linked below.

69002 Tackley 5 May 2021

66798, 69002 & 66704 Tackley 5 May 2021

 

[Nym]

What matters is the communications gear. Is there a multiple-working standard and set of jumpers that have been adopted?

Yes, AAR 27 Wire control, the same as the 59, 66 and 67 (pre modifications for TfWR on the latter).

Not a good system by any means, but pretty ubiquitous because of the Class 66. The only other systems that are still active in anything 'heavy' that I can think of is the Class 60 system (that can't be used for other reasons), Class 57/0 multiple working, where there was plans to convert to AAR but it never happened, is prepriartory only to the 57/0, some 47s, and a smattering of BR Multi working on the 20s, 33s, 37s etc, but I don't see many of them working any more in their intended form.

 

[43096]

Yes, AAR 27 Wire control, the same as the 59, 66 and 67 (pre modifications for TfWR on the latter).

Not a good system by any means, but pretty ubiquitous because of the Class 66. The only other systems that are still active in anything 'heavy' that I can think of is the Class 60 system (that can't be used for other reasons), Class 57/0 multiple working, where there was plans to convert to AAR but it never happened, is prepriartory only to the 57/0, some 47s, and a smattering of BR Multi working on the 20s, 33s, 37s etc, but I don't see many of them working any more in their intended form.

Class 70 and the GBRf 73/9s also have AAR.

Class 68 and 88 have Wire Train Bus connections for multi-working

 

[Noddy]

Y

Not a good system by any means, but pretty ubiquitous because of the Class 66. The only other systems that are still active in anything 'heavy' that I can think of is the Class 60 system (that can't be used for other reasons), Class 57/0 multiple working, where there was plans to convert to AAR but it never happened, is prepriartory only to the 57/0, some 47s, and a smattering of BR Multi working on the 20s, 33s, 37s etc, but I don't see many of them working any more in their intended form.

Apologies for going off topic but I’d be interested to know why AAR multiple working is ‘not a good system’ given its so widespread in countries where multiple working is not just useful but an absolute requirement (US, Canada, Australia etc)?

 

[Nym]

Apologies for going off topic but I’d be interested to know why AAR multiple working is ‘not a good system’ given its so widespread in countries where multiple working is not just useful but an absolute requirement (US, Canada, Australia etc)?

How much of a list would you like;

It doesn't support voice communications.
It doesn't support any databus connections.
The implementations for 59, 66 and 67 are all slightly different.
It uses a connector that is not commonly available in the UK and has an exceedingly long lead time, with the cheap plastic versions for the housing only pushing four figures (that you can't even use out on the line).
It doesn't include some relatively sensible connections such as Brake Continuity for compatibility with other units.
It includes a "Control On" signal that is rather current limited and therefore limits the way that you can couple multiple locomotives together, and makes some very adventourous ill informed persons think it can do more than it actually can.

And I don't have my coupling standard to hand, but this is mainly off the cuff.

 

[K.o.R]

Here she is:

View attachment 95500

Very smart!

 

[Roast Veg]

How much of a list would you like;

It doesn't support voice communications.
It doesn't support any databus connections.
The implementations for 59, 66 and 67 are all slightly different.
It uses a connector that is not commonly available in the UK and has an exceedingly long lead time, with the cheap plastic versions for the housing only pushing four figures (that you can't even use out on the line).
It doesn't include some relatively sensible connections such as Brake Continuity for compatibility with other units.
It includes a "Control On" signal that is rather current limited and therefore limits the way that you can couple multiple locomotives together, and makes some very adventourous ill informed persons think it can do more than it actually can.

And I don't have my coupling standard to hand, but this is mainly off the cuff.

I am surprised that an EU TSI has not created something to obsolesce it. I assume attempts have been made?

 

[ac6000cw]

I am surprised that an EU TSI has not created something to obsolesce it. I assume attempts have been made?

I've no inside/professional knowledge of the situation, but I suspect that this might be as far as it's got:

Class 68 and 88 have Wire Train Bus connections for multi-working

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_communication_network#Wire_train_bus

(The 'Chiltern' group of 68's - 68008 to 68015 - have AAR in addition, but that's primarily for compatibility with the DVTs - which had originally been equipped with AAR for use with the 67s...)

AFAIK, AAR 27 Wire control evolved from a propriety EMD system, which became a de-facto standard in North America due to the dominance of EMD in that market. Because it wasn't actually fully standardised, eventually the AAR got involved to try and make it so. Although you can in theory MU a 40 year old GP40 with brand new ET44AC, the differences in traction characteristics/wheelslip control between them wouldn't make it a particularly happy partnership, so you most often see the same 'generation' of locos used together in a consist to avoid that.

 

[Noddy]

I've no inside/professional knowledge of the situation, but I suspect that this might be as far as it's got:

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_communication_network#Wire_train_bus

(The 'Chiltern' group of 68's - 68008 to 68015 - have AAR in addition, but that's primarily for compatibility with the DVTs - which had originally been equipped with AAR for use with the 67s...)

AFAIK, AAR 27 Wire control evolved from a propriety EMD system, which became a de-facto standard in North America due to the dominance of EMD in that market. Because it wasn't actually fully standardised, eventually the AAR got involved to try and make it so. Although you can in theory MU a 40 year old GP40 with brand new ET44AC, the differences in traction characteristics/wheelslip control between them wouldn't make it a particularly happy partnership, so you most often see the same 'generation' of locos used together in a consist to avoid that.

Indeed but what about a 36 year old class 59, and a ‘new’ 69?!

 

[ac6000cw]

Indeed but what about a 36 year old class 59, and a ‘new’ 69?!

Given that 'above the frame' the 69 appears to be a very close relative of a 66 in terms of equipment, I guess they'll chat with each other just fine - and I assume GBRF would want that to be the case anyway, even though they only operate a solitary 59.

 

[ExRes]

Reported on GBRf social media that ORR have authorised 16 class 69s for placing into service

 

[squizzler]

I am surprised that an EU TSI has not created something to obsolesce it. I assume attempts have been made?

In fact they currently are with a programme under Shift2Rail to specify what they call the Digital Automatic Coupling. As the name suggests, a new mechanical coupler to supersede screw couplings with a state-of-the-art data link which is fit for other safety critical things like electronic braking and the train integrity required for ETCS levels 3 and up.

 

[ExRes]

A suggestion elsewhere that todays *scheduled* 1435 0Y69 Eastleigh Works GBRf to Tonbridge West Yard GBRf may be worth keeping an eye on

 

[XCTurbostar]

RTT is reporting it as 73212 + 73213 + 69001

 

[ExRes]

69001 has appeared in GBRf livery with Union and American flags either side of the 'Mayflower' nameplate, I'm not personally sure about the red and blue 'moustache' but then I'm not paying ...... should raise a few comments anyway

 

[ABB125]

69001 has appeared in GBRf livery with Union and American flags either side of the 'Mayflower' nameplate, I'm not personally sure about the red and blue 'moustache' but then I'm not paying ...... should raise a few comments anyway

Do you know the reason behind the livery?

 

[ExRes]

Do you know the reason behind the livery?

As guesswork I'd imagine it's simply to highlight the 69s as a joint UK & US development, a UK loco that's US powered, the naming is a nice touch after the cancellation of last years Mayflower celebrations especially with a new US President just happening to be in the UK, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence ......

 

[ABB125]

As guesswork I'd imagine it's simply to highlight the 69s as a joint UK & US development, a UK loco that's US powered, the naming is a nice touch after the cancellation of last years Mayflower celebrations especially with a new US President just happening to be in the UK, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence ......

Thanks - that certainly seems plausible!

 

[cj_1985]

I'm sort of disappointed that we didn't get an EMD/Progress Rail brand style livery as has been seen on numerous locos in the states and at least 1 in Australia

 

[ExRes]

I'm sort of disappointed that we didn't get an EMD/Progress Rail brand style livery as has been seen on numerous locos in the states and at least 1 in Australia

There's still eight, possibly fourteen, to come so plenty of opportunities to try out the Dulux tester pots

 

[507021]

69001 has appeared in GBRf livery with Union and American flags either side of the 'Mayflower' nameplate, I'm not personally sure about the red and blue 'moustache' but then I'm not paying ...... should raise a few comments anyway

I think it looks smart, personally.

 

[Speed43125]

Is there anywhere online where we can see the outshopped loco?

 

[3973EXL]

Is there anywhere online where we can see the outshopped loco?

Search: 69001 14 june 2021 | Flickr

 

[Strathclyder]

Is there anywhere online where we can see the outshopped loco?

Several images of the Eastleigh to Tonbridge move have appeared on Flickr (linked examples from the Phil Swann & Simon Howard photostreams).

73212, 73213 & 69001 0Y69 Farnborough, Hampshire 14/06/2021

GBRf class 73/2 electro-diesel locomotives 73212 'Fiona' & 73213 'Rhodalyn' are seen leading class 69 locomotive 69001 'Mayflower' (ex. 56031) on 0Y69, 14:35 (dep. 15:08) Eastleigh Works - Tonbridge West Yard light engine movement as they approach Farnborough (Main) station, Hampshire on 14/06/2021.

www.flickr.com

69001Micheldever140621

69001 Micheldever 14/06/21 0Y69 Eastleigh to Tonbridge led by 73212 and 73213, newly repainted and named "Mayflower"

www.flickr.com

 

[fgwrich]

Is there anywhere online where we can see the outshopped loco?

GBRf's Facebook page:

GB Railfreight | London

GB Railfreight, London, United Kingdom. 13,918 likes · 49 talking about this · 126 were here. GBRf has since its start in 1999 earned praise for its innovative approach, flexibility, reliability

www.facebook.com

GB Railfreight​

Name a more iconic Anglo-American meeting, we’ll wait...
Today marks the unveiling of the first Class 69 locomotive, 69001 "Mayflower". Repainted by Arlington Fleet Services in Eastleigh, Class 69001’s new livery represents the longstanding relationship between GBRf and Progress Rail.
The locomotive, specially painted to carry the flags of both companies home nations, is named after the Mayflower ship which first took the founding fathers from Plymouth, UK, to Cape Cod, Massachusetts, over 400 years ago.
Formerly British Rail Class 56, 56 031, EMD Progress Rail have repowered 69001 to have an EMD710 3A Emission power unit offering improved environmental benefits and better fuel economy.
The locomotive has also been rebuilt with the latest versions of the renown EMD EM2000 software and “uptime” computer control, which has proven be a great improvement on performance and noise than before.
#Class69 #Mayflower

 

[XAM2175]

I'm not personally sure about the red and blue 'moustache' but then I'm not paying

Yes I agree, the rest of it is decent enough but the moustache is a nope from me!

 

[Bob Price]

It's not a moustache, they are whiskers harking back to the original Deltic and the regional green DMUs. It's different but at least they went with something different.

 

[ExRes]

It's not a moustache, they are whiskers harking back to the original Deltic and the regional green DMUs. It's different but at least they went with something different.

'Moustache' or 'whiskers' I personally think it looks like the input from a trainee advertising executive, I'm more than happy with GBRf doing their own thing though, and it's definitely got to be better than that pink 66 that's knocking around ....

 

[Roast Veg]

It looks great. You had to replace the grid with something on those, and I think it makes them quite stylish.

Where is the horn now? Under the solebar at the front presumably?

 

[TRXsouth]

'Moustache' or 'whiskers' I personally think it looks like the input from a trainee advertising executive, I'm more than happy with GBRf doing their own thing though, and it's definitely got to be better than that pink 66 that's knocking around ....

The whiskers and flags are great ideas but need tweaking. The cabside ends of the whiskers simply look lost. I suggest that the cabside ‘GBRailfreight’ logos could be repositioned higher up (like the Class 47s) and then have the whiskers flow from the end of these logos.
Also, instead of the large separate flags, have a smaller pair of crossed flags below the ‘Mayflower‘ nameplate. The left hand flag to be the Stars and Stripes, the right hand flag the Union Jack. This would would also make better sense geographically - after all, on the planet the USA is on the left of the Atlantic, the UK on the right.