GBRF confirms conversion of Class 56s to Class 69s

[The_Train]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure 303 has been acquired for parts only

 

[ExRes]

Reported on WNXX this morning that 56081, currently at Melton, is 'to be retired to Longport in the New Year'

 

[Class15]

Reported on WNXX this morning that 56081, currently at Melton, is 'to be retired to Longport in the New Year'

Interesting… is that for conversion or withdrawal?

 

[D365]

That’s a seemingly sudden turnaround - I was told earlier in the year that 081 and 098 would remain as Class 56s.

 

[simon7929]

Seems odd as all 16 donors have been identified. Wonder if 081 is an additional rebuild?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Seems odd as all 16 donors have been identified. Wonder if 081 is an additional rebuild?

Or whether they are going to use the bogies, traction motors and traction alternators as spares for the class 69 fleet maybe ?

 

[ac6000cw]

Or whether they are going to use the bogies, traction motors and traction alternators as spares for the class 69 fleet maybe ?

The cl. 69 uses an EMD/Progress Rail alternator but retains the Brush traction motors - a quote from https://www.railengineer.co.uk/566669-or-56-plus-66-equals-69

The EMD 12N-710G3B-T2 diesel engine produces just under 2,400kW (3,200 HP) at 900rpm and conforms with the EU Stage 3A emission obligations. The requirement for repowering is that the emissions of a new engine should be “better than the engine it replaced”.

Bob says that the old engines predated any emission regulations and were famous for high fuel consumption, smoke and leaks, so the new engines are a very considerable improvement. The new cooler groups, electrical cubicles, computer cubicles and internals were similar to other GP40/50 American designs for metre-gauge applications and fitted the 69 bodyshell, so these were manufactured in Chicago along with the engines, alternators and auxiliaries, and shipped to the UK for installation at EMD Progress Rail’s Longport facility.

('Bob' is Bob Tiller from GBRf)

 

[37114]

Reported on WNXX this morning that 56081, currently at Melton, is 'to be retired to Longport in the New Year'

Seems odd as all 16 donors have been identified. Wonder if 081 is an additional rebuild?

It could have had a major component failure or require work on it which has led to a change of plan.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The cl. 69 uses an EMD/Progress Rail alternator but retains the Brush traction motors - a quote from https://www.railengineer.co.uk/566669-or-56-plus-66-equals-69


('Bob' is Bob Tiller from GBRf)

Well that is interesting. I was under the misapprehension that class 69s used refurbished class 56 alternators. Thanks for that

 

[ac6000cw]

I was under the misapprehension that class 69s used refurbished class 56 alternators.

The Brush cl. 57 rebuilds did use refurbished or new cl. 56 alternators with an EMD diesel engine, but (AFAIK) that used a Brush traction control system.

The cl. 69 has EMD EM2000 traction control, which on their DC-drive locos normally uses electronic control of alternator excitation for wheelslip control and multiple alternator field windings to do the equivalent of motor-grouping control (the motors are all connected in parallel). It's possible that the cl. 56 alternator wasn't suitable for use with EM2000.

 

[43096]

The Brush cl. 57 rebuilds did use refurbished or new cl. 56 alternators with an EMD diesel engine, but (AFAIK) that used a Brush traction control system.

Correct. Parts of the Class 57 design were used to bring 41001 back to life.

 

[Nym]

The 57 does indeed use a Brush Traction traction control system, is essentially (but not physically) a watered down version of what the Class 60 uses, but with a lot of circuits just not fitted.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The Brush cl. 57 rebuilds did use refurbished or new cl. 56 alternators with an EMD diesel engine, but (AFAIK) that used a Brush traction control system.

The cl. 69 has EMD EM2000 traction control, which on their DC-drive locos normally uses electronic control of alternator excitation for wheelslip control and multiple alternator field windings to do the equivalent of motor-grouping control (the motors are all connected in parallel). It's possible that the cl. 56 alternator wasn't suitable for use with EM2000.

So does the class 66 engine + traction alternator combo go straight into the class 69 then ? Makes a lot of sense for the output from the traction alternator to go into the new class 69 contro0l frame.

Thanks

 

[ExRes]

Along with the comment on 56303 WNXX report this morning that 69009 & 69010 both arrived at Leicester LIP yesterday, painting is now subject to work requirements and slots at the Eastleigh paint facility, it's hoped that one will be done in January and both by March. Work on 69011 - 69016 continues at Longport although there has been a delay with materials

Regarding the option to build a further two 69s, these "will *not* be for GBRf", if produced they will be for EMD as demonstrators or for spot hire, as with the 56303 situation time will tell

 

[The_Train]

Regarding the option to build a further two 69s, these "will *not* be for GBRf", if produced they will be for EMD as demonstrators or for spot hire, as with the 56303 situation time will tell

Wasn't there a rumour a bit back that Colas were sniffing around the 69s as an option to boost their fleet? I wonder if this interest is what has prompted EMD to produce "demonstrators". Although saying that, it appears to be a bit pointless to produce a demonstrator for something that they will have limited scope to produce in the future, unless they are hoping Colas turn up with their 56s to be converted, of course.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Wasn't there a rumour a bit back that Colas were sniffing around the 69s as an option to boost their fleet? I wonder if this interest is what has prompted EMD to produce "demonstrators". Although saying that, it appears to be a bit pointless to produce a demonstrator for something that they will have limited scope to produce in the future, unless they are hoping Colas turn up with their 56s to be converted, of course.

Well yes.
Now if Progress Rail produced a demonstrator class 60, I could understand it.

 

[ExRes]

Now if Progress Rail produced a demonstrator class 60, I could understand it.

Presumably that's what 60014 is at Longport for, I've seen no news on that recently though other than some pictures of the 60 stripped out and sitting outdoors

According to Class 56 Group facebook the movement of 56081 from Leicester LIP to Longport tomorrow has been cancelled until a later date

 

[Robin Procter]

According to Class 56 Group facebook the movement of 56081 from Leicester LIP to Longport tomorrow has been cancelled until a later date

.... That report on the Class 56 Group Facebook was dated 2nd January (same date as your #1,037 Reply). I photographed Class56 081 passing through Eastleigh on 13th December 2023 dragging empty EMU stock with 69 008 on the tail and know she has been busy dragging stock up to that date. Interestingly on return journeys 081 has been at the head of the train with 69 008 still on the tail. Isn't it more usual for Top-n-Tail locos not to swop ends?

 

[fgwrich]

.... That report on the Class 56 Group Facebook was dated 2nd January (same date as your #1,037 Reply). I photographed Class56 081 passing through Eastleigh on 13th December 2023 dragging empty EMU stock with 69 008 on the tail and know she has been busy dragging stock up to that date. Interestingly on return journeys 081 has been at the head of the train with 69 008 still on the tail. Isn't it more usual for Top-n-Tail locos not to swop ends?

View attachment 150658

Given that 098 seems to be misbehaving a lot lately, I wonder if that could find itself swapped for 081 in the queue for re-building? If that’s still the plan for 081 at least.

 

[The_Train]

Given that 098 seems to be misbehaving a lot lately, I wonder if that could find itself swapped for 081 in the queue for re-building? If that’s still the plan for 081 at least.

This is something that I have heard although that was on the basis of 098's recent failure being serious enough to warrant it unserviceable and I am not quite sure how much substance there is to that at the moment. Certainly appears that Colas won't be taking the option of extending their short term lease of 098

 

[ExRes]

56081 made what is possibly its last journey today, the 121 late departing 0944 0Z56 Old Dalby to Longport FD

 

[D365]

56081 made what is possibly its last journey today, the 121 late departing 0944 0Z56 Old Dalby to Longport FD

Has GBRf provided any confirmation of its future?

 

[ExRes]

Has GBRf provided any confirmation of its future?

Not as far as I'm aware, after 098s performance last week I wonder if GBRf should cut their losses and 69 the pair of them

 

[Class15]

Could this path tomorrow be for 56098, which is showing at Old Dalby?

Schedule ID : 3729411

 

[D365]

Unless there's a thread already discussing this - whereabouts has the RIDC landslip occurred? By the sound of it, it isn't disrupting GBRf Class 56 movements, but it is getting in the way of Freight ETCS testing activities...

 

[12LDA28C]

Has GBRf provided any confirmation of its future?

Rumoured on Facebook (so take with a pinch of salt) that 56081/098 are both to be converted to 69s, potentially for use as spot-hire locos, as suggested upthread.

 

[ExRes]

Interesting development on the 56098 front, reported on WNXX today that with 56103 still undergoing an 'F' exam and 56301 on repair at Loughborough, that 098 is set to go out on hire to DCR next week

 

[The_Train]

Interesting development on the 56098 front, reported on WNXX today that with 56103 still undergoing an 'F' exam and 56301 on repair at Loughborough, that 098 is set to go out on hire to DCR next week

It lives on

 

[SEtrains]

Does anyone know why 69009 and 69010 are still in primer livery? I assume that Eastleigh Arlington are busy.

 

[Trainman40083]

Originally, those 69s were needed for RHTT. I'd imagine they should be off to Eastleigh soon.