Glasgow Aiport Link Scrapped

[LucaZone]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8256474.stm

Have the Class 380 units been started yet?

 

[PhilipW]

Oh dear. How sad.

The root cause of the country's economic woes, and therefore this dissapointing news ......... the bankers.

 

[Bittern]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8256474.stm

have the class 380 units been started yet?

what?!

 

[PhilipW]

I don't understand why the scheme has been scrapped completely, rather than just postponed until better economic times.

I thought it was a good scheme.

 

[A60K]

I think the design of the scheme that's just been scrapped was something of a missed opportunity. If the money was available, then something much more radical could really improve the whole west of Glasgow transport network.

While it would have cost a lot more, a line from Exhibition Centre to Glasgow Harbour, Govan, Braehead, Renfrew, Airport, Paisley St James and on to link up with the lines to Ayr would have given much better transport connections along the whole of the riverbank development area, as well as relief for the main line between Paisley and Glasgow.

This would have been expensive, but offer massive benefits - a semi-fast train from Ayr calling at Prestwick, Paisley St J, Airport, Glasgow City Centre stations, Motherwell and on to Edinburgh via Shotts - rather than just the dead end shuttle to Glasgow Central.

Not going to happen though!

 

[Bittern]

I think the design of the scheme that's just been scrapped was something of a missed opportunity. If the money was available, then something much more radical could really improve the whole west of Glasgow transport network.

Two words for you.

Crossrail. Glasgow.

This would've improved rail transport in Glasgow as a whole. It would've been nice, but I've not heard anything on the matter since January.

 

[me123]

This is a sad decision, but pretty sensible. We have lost money this year, and something needs to go. It's economically a good idea, but in reality it's a luxury. I hope the funding is available to resurrect this in the future; the economic benefits are there, and it's a highly desirable project for the Commonwealth Games in 2014.

The Budget was, in my opinion, good overall, considering that there were the expected cutbacks. Whilst the loss of the branch line is to be lamented, there is also the fact that healthcare and education funding will actually increase in real terms; I'm glad that these rather more essential areas have been preserved.

It's all down, not to the bankers as Labour would have you believe, but the sheer incompetence of Gordon Brown whilst he was Chancellor of the Exchequer.

 

[Bittern]

Did anything physical actually happen in regards to the link (like any sort of construction at all)?

 

[jonnorail]

A vast amount of wrk has already been complete and still to take place between Glasgow and Paisley Gilmour Street in relation to the G.A.R.L. project. Whatever is not done between Glasgow and Paisley that is due to be done will be complete regardless. Rail bridgess beween Hillington West and East station are in the middle of being worked on in terms of expanding the bridges to make way for the third track that will be installed from Shields Junction - Paisley. Theres too many things that have been done to mention.

Best Regards

Jonathan McGurk

Railway and Freelance Photographer

www.jonathanmcgurk.fotopic.net

 

[me123]

As far as I understand it, work will continue between Glasgow and Paisley, possibly including Platforms 12 and 13 being built at Glasgow Central. But the actual branch line will no longer happen.

 

[tbtc]

At least they can still make improvements on the busy line from Glasgow to Paisley (and worry about the air link at a later date).

I was always ambivalent about this "spur" - would rather that capacity on the line was used for longer distance services

 

[mumrar]

Wow, it looks like not everything Scotland wants gets successfully subsidised by the rest of the UK. I don't know any details on the cost or feasability of this link, but it's obviously been deemed uneconomic if they've scrapped it.

 

[jonnorail]

Hi Mumrar. The Evening Times Newspaper report wil give a clear understanding regarding the cancellation / scrapping of the G.A.R.L. Project. The platform 12 extension and the construction of a ne platform 13 at Glasgow Central High Level station will go ahead at the end of this month in order to tackle train capacity / extra capacity issues (for when the new 3/4 (6/7/8 ) car Class 380 E.M.U. Desiro trains come into service, expected to be in Autumn in 2010).

Best Regards

Jonathan McGurk

Railway and Freelance Photographer

www.jonathanmcgurk.fotopic.net

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Are the new 380s expected to have higher capacity than the 334s? The reason I ask is that 334s are often deemed inappropriate for routes they currently run at peak times which is why the Gourock and Wemyss Bay lines are often resorted to class 314s at peak evening times, simply because they can seat more passengers. I mean, I can't think of any other reason why a 30 year old train would be sent on a relatively long route? I also think that the fact that our 314s are now being kept on for EVEN LONGER is testament to their awesomeness... but that is not to do with this discussion.

 

[chic]

Are the new 380s expected to have higher capacity than the 334s? The reason I ask is that 334s are often deemed inappropriate for routes they currently run at peak times which is why the Gourock and Wemyss Bay lines are often resorted to class 314s at peak evening times, simply because they can seat more passengers. I mean, I can't think of any other reason why a 30 year old train would be sent on a relatively long route? I also think that the fact that our 314s are now being kept on for EVEN LONGER is testament to their awesomeness... but that is not to do with this discussion.

hi,
from seeing the mock-up it looked like theres more seating on the 380. think there's interior photos on the scotrail website.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the design of the scheme that's just been scrapped was something of a missed opportunity. If the money was available, then something much more radical could really improve the whole west of Glasgow transport network.

While it would have cost a lot more, a line from Exhibition Centre to Glasgow Harbour, Govan, Braehead, Renfrew, Airport, Paisley St James and on to link up with the lines to Ayr would have given much better transport connections along the whole of the riverbank development area, as well as relief for the main line between Paisley and Glasgow.

This would have been expensive, but offer massive benefits - a semi-fast train from Ayr calling at Prestwick, Paisley St J, Airport, Glasgow City Centre stations, Motherwell and on to Edinburgh via Shotts - rather than just the dead end shuttle to Glasgow Central.

Not going to happen though!

The clyde fastlink proposed BRT was meant to connect SECC, Glasgow Harbour, Govan, Braehead etc.. last quote I saw for it was over £100 million!

Can't see that it'd get funded unless there's money hidden away for the commonwealth games.

edit to add, the snp did fund fastlink though. http://www.snp.org/node/15663

sorry couldn't find a neutral report.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

At least they can still make improvements on the busy line from Glasgow to Paisley (and worry about the air link at a later date).

I was always ambivalent about this "spur" - would rather that capacity on the line was used for longer distance services

That's my view too.
Of course I support the development and expansion of the network, but . . .
a) why do we put such disproportionate investment in front of upcoming but brief sporting events? We never talk retrospectively about the rail benefits of past Olympic (or Commonwealth) Games. Athens? Mexico? Bejing?
b) where's the tipping point between air-rail links benefitting "domestic" air travel vs rail travel and benefitting rail travel vs air? In the case of GARL I'm really unconvinced that it would move pax from air to rail. Possibly the opposite.
(As I've said elsewhere, there are locations in Scotland where air SHOULD be served by rail, such as a station at Dalcross on the Inverness-Aberdeen line to give rail pax access to the Islands)

 

[tbtc]

That's my view too.
Of course I support the development and expansion of the network, but . . .
a) why do we put such disproportionate investment in front of upcoming but brief sporting events? We never talk retrospectively about the rail benefits of past Olympic (or Commonwealth) Games. Athens? Mexico? Bejing?

Totally agree. There's precious little to show for the last time Scotland had the Commonwealth Games (apart from a white elephant of a stadium at Meadowbank in Edinburgh).

Any tram link to the City of Manchester Stadium will be at least a decade after the Commonwealth Games were there too!

The investment should stand or fall on it's long term merits, not just because we need it for a one off sporting event (something I wish the London 2012 people realised!) - Glasgow "cross rail" would be a much better long term investment in Scotland's infrastructure

 

[Bittern]

The very last thing Glasgow needs is an Edinburgh trams fiasco.

What? Have the Edinburgh trams been cancelled too?

 

[CompactDstrxion]

What? Have the Edinburgh trams been chancelled too?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Bittern]

Well that's good. There are too many buses in the capital!

 

[gingerheid]

Oh dear - rail project number 2 binned by the SNP. I wonder if the Waverely line will survive the new climate?

The tragic thing is that of all the new rail projects in Scotland in recent years, not one has been anything other than a resounding success.

 

[87015]

Oh dear - rail project number 2 binned by the SNP. I wonder if the Waverely line will survive the new climate?

The tragic thing is that of all the new rail projects in Scotland in recent years, not one has been anything other than a resounding success.

I'm sure if you found a pit of gold the SNP would be more than ahppy to go ahead with all the planned projects!!

 

[me123]

Oh dear - rail project number 2 binned by the SNP. I wonder if the Waverely line will survive the new climate?

The tragic thing is that of all the new rail projects in Scotland in recent years, not one has been anything other than a resounding success.

I still think it was perhaps the right decision, although not necessarily the most popular. I'd rather that Glasgow's new hopsitals (including the newest one at Stobhill and replacing the old ones on the South Side) were funded than a rail link to the airport, although I think it's a sad loss. Same for the new school cropping up around Scotland replacing life-expired sandstone buildings and 1960s monstrosities.

I hope that they've seen sense, however, and kept the plans on the shelf. It would be foolish not to pursue this further. If we can fund this in next year's budget, it could still make the Commonwealth Games (although this is unlikely) and it would be a valuable addition to the city in the future.

I'll tell you something though; if they could the SNP would rather have scrapped Edinburgh's shambolic tram scheme. If it hadn't happened, the money would probably have been there for GARL and the Commonwealth games.

Wow, it looks like not everything Scotland wants gets successfully subsidised by the rest of the UK. I don't know any details on the cost or feasability of this link, but it's obviously been deemed uneconomic if they've scrapped it.

I'm going to ignore a large part of this for obvious reasons, but it's no longer feasible because we've had our budget slashed. Indeed, the rest of the UK budget will also be cut in order to clean up Gordon Brown's doo-doo.

 

[Bittern]

I'm going to ignore a large part of this for obvious reasons, but it's no longer feasible because we've had our budget slashed. Indeed, the rest of the UK budget will also be cut in order to clean up Gordon Brown's doo-doo.

That has to be a big roll of toilet paper!

 

[me123]

The clyde fastlink proposed BRT was meant to connect SECC, Glasgow Harbour, Govan, Braehead etc.. last quote I saw for it was over £100 million!

I hope that a conversion of this guided busway to an off-road light rail option is possible in the future. (Like what they're doing with Edinburgh trams). That would be a sensible investment in the future.

 

[Pumbaa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mumrar
Wow, it looks like not everything Scotland wants gets successfully subsidised by the rest of the UK. I don't know any details on the cost or feasability of this link, but it's obviously been deemed uneconomic if they've scrapped it.

I'm going to ignore a large part of this for obvious reasons, but it's no longer feasible because we've had our budget slashed. Indeed, the rest of the UK budget will also be cut in order to clean up Gordon Brown's doo-doo.

I'll be honest; that opinion resides with most of England, and you Scots are well aware of that! You're welcome to your independence, it means we get our budget to ourselves

 

[me123]

I won't go into this, but there's two ways of looking at this; Scotland as it's own entity and Scotland as part of the UK. The two contrasting views are actually true but taken from different views; ie, Scotland would earn more money if all tax raised in Scotland remained in Scotland, but per head of the UK population we get more than our fair share.

 

[gingerheid]

Leaving aside the nationalistic arguments, which are something that never goes anywhere good, I think the arithmetical and common sense argument would boil down to that I bet I could find £200m of money being spent on something else and that would be better spent on an important airport. (Commonwealth games or no commonwealth games.) I think they got this one wrong.

 

[Bittern]

I hope that they've seen sense, however, and kept the plans on the shelf. It would be foolish not to pursue this further. If we can fund this in next year's budget, it could still make the Commonwealth Games (although this is unlikely) and it would be a valuable addition to the city in the future.

This. But if this were the case, it would just be "prosponed" and not the dreaded C-word. Said C-word suggests that the project is gone. One minute it's there, the next it has buggered off. But I do hope that at some point, they realise that this connection is somehwat vital to the city's econimical state, especially in times like these where new jobs is exactly what Scotland, no, is exactly what the UK needs.

 

[me123]

Leaving aside the nationalistic arguments, which are something that never goes anywhere good, I think the arithmetical and common sense argument would boil down to that I bet I could find £200m of money being spent on something else and that would be better spent on an important airport. (Commonwealth games or no commonwealth games.) I think they got this one wrong.

I don't think it's a good thing, but surely building the new Southern General hospital, increasing capacity and modernising services, is a much more important project for the health and wellbeing of the city? If something had to be cut, it probably was this; it would be economically good, but we've survived without it for years, and a few more won't hurt.

Let's bear in mind that, instead of £200M going to fund an economically significant rail link, London has decided to waste up to £77bn on replacing our own Weapons of Mass Destruction. And the same cuts will happen in England and Wales, hopefully not affecting key services like hospitals, schools and police/fire and rescue.

But I do hope that at some point, they realise that this connection is somewhat vital to the city's economical state, especially in times like these where new jobs is exactly what Scotland, no, is exactly what the UK needs.

I think an outright cancellation would be foolish. In reality, I hope they keep the plans and bring them out again when they can fund it (perhaps not too far down the line) and bring the jobs and economic prosperity to Glasgow. But, again, more important improvements like the Southern General Hospital and the Forth Road Bridge replacement are needed in the next few years, and the budget must allow for these.