GNER To Glasgow Central

[ginge8991]

I know that back in the days of GNER Glasgow had a much more comprehensive ECML service rather than the 1tpd each way it has now. Curious as to what was the old service pattern like and when did it stop?

Many Thanks

 

[dk1]

I know that back in the days of GNER Glasgow had a much more comprehensive ECML service rather than the 1tpd each way it has now. Curious as to what was the old service pattern like and when did it stop?

Many Thanks

Left Kings Cross roughly every two hours. Stops varied but mainly slightly faster when departing on the hour.

 

[dk1]

I found this the other day in an old GBTT. Was once stated by a senior official that the 'Scottish Pullman' only actually arrived on time or early around 30% of the time...

 

[cambsy]

I think the more intensive Glasgow ECML service stopped when the Virgin Pendolino WCML times came down to current 4hr 30 min mark, possibly around 2008, and some of the Glasgow services were the Scottish Pullman 3hr 59 min London-Edinburgh vv headline time trains, using 225 sets, with York and Newcastle only stops, the times were 08.00 & 15.00 Kings Cross-Glasgow Central and 07.00 and 14.00 Glsasgow-London, used to time them as back in the 90’s as one could get exciting runs, with speeds somewhat over the limit.

 

[leo knight]

The 1500 KX to Glasgow Central ran non stop to York in 1hr40 mins giving it the flagship service of 3hr59 mins to Edinburgh arriving Glasgow around 8pm.
Arriving Newcastle at 1737.Very fast.
Weekdays only.
1300 Glasgow Central to KX arriving at 1859 On the southbound flagship run.

 

[Ianno87]

Ended in May 2011 - the 'Eureka!' timetable recast. Essentially there was always one set (conveying not an awful lot of passengers) between Edinburgh and Glasgow to work the two-hourly service.

As stated above - the 2008 WCML timetable made the ECML journey time much less attractive than it previously was.

By chopping back, it freed up the set to help resource the 5th hourly Newark/York service instead.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

... and XC picked up the pieces with what I gather is now a rather popular extension to their Plymouth-Edinburghs every two hours.

 

[Ianno87]

... and XC picked up the pieces with what I gather is now a rather popular extension to their Plymouth-Edinburghs every two hours.

Some of the XC only fares fairly substantially undercut the Any Permitted fares between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Some of the XC only fares fairly substantially undercut the Any Permitted fares between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Indeed. In retrospect it's been a decent change - maintaining links from Glasgow and Lanarkshire to North East England and Yorkshire whilst allowing the East Coast franchise to free up resource for their heartlands.

 

[ainsworth74]

For anyone who is interested in seeing the timetables before and after Eureka for the impact on the Glasgow Central service using the East Coast franchise the DP Simulation website has a collection of old timetables that can be found here (you need to look under East Coast and then for the Winter 2010-11 and Summer 2011 timetables). There are also CrossCountry timetables so you can see the impact on that operator as well if you want to.

 

[hexagon789]

2011 for the end of regular through King's Cross to Glasgow. They started when the ECML was electrified through to Edinburgh and on to Glasgow via Carstairs.

Usually the Glasgows were extensions of the Edinburgh fasts. The fastest booking I can find was a Scottish Pullman taking 3 hrs 59 to Edinburgh and 4 hrs 57 to Glasgow.

The Royal Scot from Euston was booked 4 hrs 51 at this point.

I remember travelling on the Glasgow-King's X under GNER to York, a very handy service. XC run to York now but it's slower with all the extra stops.

 

[Ianno87]

2011 for the end of regular through King's Cross to Glasgow. They started when the ECML was electrified through to Edinburgh and on to Glasgow via Carstairs.

.

I understand that previously there were some HSTs into Queen St instead?

 

[ainsworth74]

I understand that previously there were some HSTs into Queen St instead?

Yes for a period Intercity ran HSTs to Queen Street usually during times that they'd otherwise not be doing anything useful (so at the start and end of the day). But once the wires were complete via Carstairs these transferred to Central and gained a slightly more useful throughout the day timetable.

 

[hexagon789]

I understand that previously there were some HSTs into Queen St instead?

Yes two out from Queen Street to King's Cross in the morning peak and two back into Queen Street in the evening. The first and last in each direction forming an internal Edinburgh-Glasgow in place of a Mk3 Push-pull set.

 

[dk1]

Yes two out from Queen Street to King's Cross in the morning peak and two back into Queen Street in the evening. The first and last in each direction forming an internal Edinburgh-Glasgow in place of a Mk3 Push-pull set.

07:00 Queen St-Penzance (Cornishman) & 07:30 Queen St-Kings Cross. There doesn't appear to be a balancing Cross Country working as just the 16:30/18:30 where through workings & both from Kings Cross Monday to Friday's in the 1990 INTERCITY timetable.

 

[hexagon789]

07:00 Queen St-Penzance (Cornishman) & 07:30 Queen St-Kings Cross. There doesn't appear to be a balancing Cross Country working as just the 16:30/18:30 where through workings & both from Kings Cross Monday to Friday's in the 1990 INTERCITY timetable.

I don't have 1990, so I'm going off 1988.

 

[dk1]

I don't have 1990, so I'm going off 1988.

I keep swapping odd GBTTs out of the attic every few months. We better be careful as thread did state GNER. Don't want to get told off

 

[hexagon789]

I keep swapping odd GBTTs out of the attic every few months. We better be careful as thread did state GNER. Don't want to get told off

True. Have GNER ones somewhere - I'll revert to those

 

[ainsworth74]

I do like it when you all self-regulate so I don't even have to do anything

 

[hexagon789]

I do like it when you all self-regulate so I don't even have to do anything

Just sit back and have a cuppa - it's all good here

 

[hexagon789]

Getting back to the topic - from the 2004 summer timetable I make it 6 London King's Cross-Glasgow services, the fastest being the 1500 Scottish Pullman taking 5 hrs 15 (4 hrs 08 to Edinburgh)

 

[route101]

Was it not hourly in the morning ? 0700 , 0800 and 0900 GNER services from Central.
Remember using GNER from Glasgow to Kings X , must be not MUCH been slower than WCML .
Im using the 0648am service from Glasgow next month.

Im sure now the services would be well filled , as the XC voyagers have seen increasing numbers using them

 

[hexagon789]

Was it not hourly in the morning ? 0700 , 0800 and 0900 GNER services from Central.
Remember using GNER from Glasgow to Kings X , must be not MUCH been slower than WCML .
Im using the 0648am service from Glasgow next month.

Im sure now the services would be well filled , as the XC voyagers have seen increasing numbers using them

From 2004 - 0700, 0800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800 and a 2000 terminating Doncaster.

Fastest 1400 Glasgow-King's Cross Scottish Pullman taking 5 hrs 20.

 

[route101]

From 2004 - 0700, 0800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600, 1800 and a 2000 terminating Doncaster.

Fastest 1400 Glasgow-King's Cross Scottish Pullman taking 5 hrs 20.

I see , do recallgetting a 0900 service on a saturday .

 

[hexagon789]

I see , do recallgetting a 0900 service on a saturday .

Looking at Saturday that's correct. Hourly 0700-1000 on Saturdays then two-hourly (1200, 1400, 1600) and last one being 1800 terminating Doncaster.

 

[ginge8991]

Thanks very much all.

 

[Class 170101]

Arguably with the shortsge of DMUs and the fact that the route is wired perhaps it should go back to East Coast (vice XC) to release said Voyager for Cross-Country work.

 

[Mag_seven]

Arguably with the shortsge of DMUs and the fact that the route is wired perhaps it should go back to East Coast (vice XC) to release said Voyager for Cross-Country work.

I understand that one of the reasons the East Coast Glasgow services were withdrawn was to allow an increase in frequencies on other East Coast routes e.g. London to Leeds going half hourly.

 

[hexagon789]

Arguably with the shortsge of DMUs and the fact that the route is wired perhaps it should go back to East Coast (vice XC) to release said Voyager for Cross-Country work.

If they have sufficient stock to do that.

 

[Ianno87]

I understand that one of the reasons the East Coast Glasgow services were withdrawn was to allow an increase in frequencies on other East Coast routes e.g. London to Leeds going half hourly.

If they have sufficient stock to do that.

Or to be really controversial, given the multitude of routes available between Glasgow and Edinburgh, not operate at all. Not as if you'd have to wait long for a connecting train....