Go North East

[Andyh82]

I wonder if this prolonged strike action will have any long term effect on GNE

The new owners of Go Ahead are less likely to have an emotional attachment with keeping the founding company within the group, if it continues to make a loss and drag down the success of the group

 

[DanNCL]

Who was driving your bus? Ben Maxfield, Nigel or Dan Graham?

How pathetic

The only one of those I’ve encountered was Graham and that was several years ago.
These are ordinary drivers who voted in the ballot. Although granted, bar one all were from the same depot (Washington).

It appears forums do indeed represent the majority of drivers

On this one occasion maybe but that’s definitely not the norm.

Quite. Perhaps some adults from Go Ahead group could come in ahead of the remnants of Giljberts over promoted disciples and patsy Ben

A very quick look at the history of these people reveals that wherever Featham goes Maxfield follows. So it’s probably a safe conclusion that if they got rid of Featham that Maxfield would follow of his own accord.

I wonder if this prolonged strike action will have any long term effect on GNE

The new owners of Go Ahead are less likely to have an emotional attachment with keeping the founding company within the group, if it continues to make a loss and drag down the success of the group

Two weeks has already had an impact as buses have been quieter this week than they were before the strikes. 12 weeks will have a massive impact, people will drive more, and that’s not coming from GNE it’s what I’m hearing in my job in the community from people who use the buses on a daily basis.

If another company wants to buy GNE they’re welcome to as far as I’m concerned. Almost anything is better for the passengers than the current situation.

 

[Christophe]

I wonder if this prolonged strike action will have any long term effect on GNE

The new owners of Go Ahead are less likely to have an emotional attachment with keeping the founding company within the group, if it continues to make a loss and drag down the success of the group

GNE have recently expanded in North Tyneside following Arriva withdrawals. So have Stagecoach, who now have a bit of a free hit with no competition. There’s some sizeable areas across Tyne & Wear, County Durham and Northumberland completely cut off. It’ll be interesting how long local authorities memories are come contract renewal time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

if it continues to make a loss and drag down the success of the group

I remain sceptical that it is genuinely loss making.

The loss of £4.3m in 2022 was mostly down to a goodwill adjustment of £2.85m.

As for the operating loss, £29.2m in “materials and external charges” hides a lot of things, especially as payments up the group do not need to otherwise be disclosed in the financial statements. The statements show that £44.6m is owed to related parties (the parent), this is down £10m from 2021, so it is easy to conclude that many of these external charges relate to payments made up the chain. (ETA I am of course hypothesising- the accounts don’t break that £29.3m down in any way, unlike the way the staff costs of £55m are broken down).

All perfectly legal and above board, but when you’re dealing with subsidiaries of a larger group it’s best to take protestations of loss-making with a huge pinch of salt. Especially as, overall, the UK bus division is coining in plenty.

(Auto merge)

Ben Maxfield is BAFFLED.

Drivers reject deal to make them the highest paid in the region and opt for a 12-week bus strike

Drivers at Go North East have turned down a landmark offer that would have made them the best-paid bus drivers in the region. Instead, Union members will start a 12-week strike from Saturday, 28 October.

The proposed deal would have increased hourly rates for drivers to £14.15. For drivers working a standard week annual pay would have risen by almost £2,700 yearly, meaning a 10.3% boost to pay. Drivers who chose to work overtime stood to gain over £3,000 per year.

When the deal was initially announced indicative surveys showed driver opinion favoured accepting the deal. However, lobbying by trade union representatives to force a ‘no’ vote proved successful.

Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield said, “We are baffled. Drivers wanted an above inflation deal, no changes to conditions and top-of-themarket rates. We responded to each and every one of those demands, which makes it hard to understand why the union would press ahead with 12-weeks of industrial action”.

“This has become a strike entirely of the union’s own making”.

Ben Maxfield continued, “Immediately after learning of the ballot outcome, we appealed to the union to reconsider and suspend the strike. Unfortunately, this was met with a flat refusal”.

The company’s primary concern now is for passengers across the region who face massive and unnecessary disruption to their daily lives as result of Unite’s strike. Please rest assured Go North East remain committed to finding a solution as swiftly as possible.

There will be no Go North East buses running during these dates, except contracted School Services. For the latest updates on service disruptions and further information, passengers are advised to visit the company website.

Drivers reject deal to make them the highest paid in the region and opt for a 12-week bus strike

Drivers at Go North East have turned down a landmark offer that would have made them the best-paid bus drivers in the region. Instead, Union

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Offering 1p more than Arriva then labelling it the best pay in the region on an attempt to brand the drivers and engineering staff as greedy. As transparent as it is cynical.

Have to laugh at

Immediately after learning of the ballot outcome, we appealed to the union to reconsider and suspend the strike

It was a 81% rejection on a 93% turnout. Take the hint.

 

[jkkne]

Ben Maxfield is BAFFLED.


Offering 1p more than Arriva then labelling it the best pay in the region on an attempt to brand the drivers and engineering staff as greedy. As transparent as it is cynical.

I'm not sure playing this out in the open will really work. Bus users sit in the minority and he's shouting into a vast echo chamber at this point.

I imagine lots of things baffle the team down at Bensham like people management, PR, stable route networks, branding and industrial relations

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not sure playing this out in the open will really work.

I’m not sure either. It’s not politics. Most people don’t care, most people don’t use GNE.

It needs mature management rather than a semi-literate rant about the unions. Maybe they didn’t teach that at Edge Hill University.

 

[Megafuss]

My gut feeling is that this is a big FU to the current management rather than about wages.

All the staff have been battered from pillar to post by different MDs with different agendas over the last decade. I genuinely couldn't imagine somebody like Andrew Wickham, Phil Southall or some of the other directors being in a similar position than the lot at GNE.

My feeling is that Featham was hired to get GNE "Franchise ready" from a company/bid perspective, and the only way he could do that is to try and butcher the terms and conditions to be on a par with the others in the North East. The driving staff know this, but they would probably be TUPEd if GNE lost out on contracts anyway, so why would they care what happens to the company, as they would be OK (seemingly). That's my 2p worth....

 

[DanNCL]

Just to clarify, and no this hasn’t come from GNE but from an internal source in Unite, there were no T&C changes in the now rejected pay offer. Unite recommended against the offer because it wants the GNW pay deal instead. Which basically means they’ve rejected a pay rise that’s considerably higher than 90% of the population could ever dream of getting, simply because it’s not as much as someone else got. The fact that the someone else in this case is another company managed by Featham isn’t relevant, it’s another company not them so Unite cannot claim that GNE are legally entitled to the same pay as GNW.

Morally I don’t disagree that drivers in the North East should be paid the same as their Manchester counterparts but at this point I’m more worried about the 80-year-old who now can’t get to their doctors appointment and the 17-year-old who now can’t get to college and may subsequently now fail their exams as a direct result than I am about the bus driver who wants £15 an hour instead of £14 an hour.

From another day working in the community today I have only spoken to one local resident who still supports the strikes. On the other hand I’ve spoken to several who are terrified about the impact this will have on their mental health. And I’m going to be honest, I’m worried about the impact three months of isolation will have on my own mental health too.

Throw all the criticism you like at me for saying what I’ve said I really don’t care. This is causing a disproportionate amount of harm to the community.

 

[Swanny200]

Just to clarify, and no this hasn’t come from GNE but from an internal source in Unite, there were no T&C changes in the now rejected pay offer. Unite recommended against the offer because it wants the GNW pay deal instead. Which basically means they’ve rejected a pay rise that’s considerably higher than 90% of the population could ever dream of getting, simply because it’s not as much as someone else got. The fact that the someone else in this case is another company managed by Featham isn’t relevant, it’s another company not them so Unite cannot claim that GNE are legally entitled to the same pay as GNW.

Morally I don’t disagree that drivers in the North East should be paid the same as their Manchester counterparts but at this point I’m more worried about the 80-year-old who now can’t get to their doctors appointment and the 17-year-old who now can’t get to college and may subsequently now fail their exams as a direct result than I am about the bus driver who wants £15 an hour instead of £14 an hour.

From another day working in the community today I have only spoken to one local resident who still supports the strikes. On the other hand I’ve spoken to several who are terrified about the impact this will have on their mental health. And I’m going to be honest, I’m worried about the impact three months of isolation will have on my own mental health too.

Throw all the criticism you like at me for saying what I’ve said I really don’t care. This is causing a disproportionate amount of harm to the community.

To be fair, a lot of the colleges since the last strike have now adapted to online learning but the older ones have been right royally screwed especially in places with no metro coverage

 

[jkkne]

Just to clarify, and no this hasn’t come from GNE but from an internal source in Unite, there were no T&C changes in the now rejected pay offer. Unite recommended against the offer because it wants the GNW pay deal instead. Which basically means they’ve rejected a pay rise that’s considerably higher than 90% of the population could ever dream of getting, simply because it’s not as much as someone else got. The fact that the someone else in this case is another company managed by Featham isn’t relevant, it’s another company not them so Unite cannot claim that GNE are legally entitled to the same pay as GNW.

Morally I don’t disagree that drivers in the North East should be paid the same as their Manchester counterparts but at this point I’m more worried about the 80-year-old who now can’t get to their doctors appointment and the 17-year-old who now can’t get to college and may subsequently now fail their exams as a direct result than I am about the bus driver who wants £15 an hour instead of £14 an hour.

From another day working in the community today I have only spoken to one local resident who still supports the strikes. On the other hand I’ve spoken to several who are terrified about the impact this will have on their mental health. And I’m going to be honest, I’m worried about the impact three months of isolation will have on my own mental health too.

Throw all the criticism you like at me for saying what I’ve said I really don’t care. This is causing a disproportionate amount of harm to the community.

Not quite true on the T&Cs

Last weeks offer was:

• 2 year deal
• 10% pay rise this year & RPI plus 0.5% next year
• scheduling conditions to be re worked in 3 months times on a depot to depot basis.

This weeks offer

• 2 year deal
• 10.3% pay rise this year & RPI plus 0.25% next year
• no changes to scheduling conditions (presented to staff)

However, I have seen the offer to the union on paper and in the small print it says the following:

Meetings will be organised with union representatives on a depot by depot basis to explore potential scheduling changes. These discussions will happen over the next 3 months

 

[DanNCL]

Not quite true on the T&Cs

Last weeks offer was:

• 2 year deal
• 10% pay rise this year & RPI plus 0.5% next year
• scheduling conditions to be re worked in 3 months times on a depot to depot basis.

This weeks offer

• 2 year deal
• 10.3% pay rise this year & RPI plus 0.25% next year
• no changes to scheduling conditions (presented to staff)

However, I have seen the offer to the union on paper and in the small print it says the following:

Meetings will be organised with union representatives on a depot by depot basis to explore potential scheduling changes. These discussions will happen over the next 3 months

As I said then, the T&Cs are separate in this offer and should not have had an impact. If GNE then try imposing changes in 3 months that aren’t acceptable have a new ballot for that specific matter. We should not be suffering now because they’re worried what T&C changes might be proposed in three months.
The fact of the matter is they have rejected a 10.3% pay rise. Regardless of the finer details that was never going to go down well with the public.

 

[Mwanesh]

How long can the union hold on that's the thing. How much is it costing the union.

 

[Snex]

GNE have recently expanded in North Tyneside following Arriva withdrawals. So have Stagecoach, who now have a bit of a free hit with no competition. There’s some sizeable areas across Tyne & Wear, County Durham and Northumberland completely cut off. It’ll be interesting how long local authorities memories are come contract renewal time.

Stagecoach haven't moved into North Tyneside from ex Arriva routes, the routes which they run, namely the 317 is actually an ex GoNorthEast route. GoNorthEast have been shouting the high heavens in recent times about saving Arriva routes, but they've been cutting just as bad. The 353, ironically give or take is the old 42 and it's variations which they binned off a few year back, as much as the 53.

Offering 1p more than Arriva then labelling it the best pay in the region on an attempt to brand the drivers and engineering staff as greedy. As transparent as it is cynical.

The even more ironic part, is they looked at a recruitment website which is actually wrong. The Arriva drivers are actually paid £14.15 aswell not £14.14 so they're actually wrong. It'd be interesting whether any local firm is paying more aswell, as I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[jkkne]

During the strike, GNE have been operating the 351 and a few other of their new North Tyne routes though at limited frequencies.

Assuming this is to avoid Nexus penalties though it sends a very confusing message to passenger but that’s a Bensham speciality

 

[Tetchytyke]

Assuming this is to avoid Nexus penalties

No, it’s because the 351 has agency drivers. The 351 was meant to have agency drivers, and they were in position before the dispute, so they can continue.

GNE tried to move them on to different routes but were swiftly put back in their box, as that’s illegal.

The even more ironic part, is they looked at a recruitment website which is actually wrong.

I saw that.

It’s just insulting. No wonder the drivers are cross about it.

 

[Christophe]

Stagecoach haven't moved into North Tyneside from ex Arriva routes, the routes which they run, namely the 317 is actually an ex GoNorthEast route. GoNorthEast have been shouting the high heavens in recent times about saving Arriva routes, but they've been cutting just as bad. The 353, ironically give or take is the old 42 and it's variations which they binned off a few year back, as much as the 53.



The even more ironic part, is they looked at a recruitment website which is actually wrong. The Arriva drivers are actually paid £14.15 aswell not £14.14 so they're actually wrong. It'd be interesting whether any local firm is paying more aswell, as I wouldn't be surprised.

I was thinking more the Stagecoach 37 & 38 extension vs the GNE 353, 354 & 355. Though not exactly the same routes, they’re SC and GNE responses to Arriva pulling out. Both still relatively in their infancy, SC have the chance to establish themselves without GNE competition.

 

[DanNCL]

The 353, ironically give or take is the old 42 and it's variations which they binned off a few year back, as much as the 53.

Before the 42 and it’s variations there was another GNE route serving most of the same places, also numbered the 353! Although that followed the Kingston Park variant of the 42s whereas the current one follows the Cramlington variant.

 

[Snex]

Before the 42 and it’s variations there was another GNE route serving most of the same places, also numbered the 353! Although that followed the Kingston Park variant of the 42s whereas the current one follows the Cramlington variant

Nexus contract that one wasn't it? Partially replaced the old Arriva 101/3 from Blyth to the Airport.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I wonder if this prolonged strike action will have any long term effect on GNE

Has the company now de-registered all its services? (Bar the school services which continue to operate.)

I don't know what the rules are about de-registering services which will not operate because of a strike, but they have all disappeared from bustimes, although the company is still showing timetables on its website.

Would be in order for the relevant local authorities to award emergency contracts to other operators to provide some kind of service to/from places like Washington and Consett which are left with no useful public transport service? Is there any suggestion that those local authorities intend to do it?

 

[kez19]

Has the company now de-registered all its services? (Bar the school services which continue to operate.)

I don't know what the rules are about de-registering services which will not operate because of a strike, but they have all disappeared from bustimes, although the company is still showing timetables on its website.

Would be in order for the relevant local authorities to award emergency contracts to other operators to provide some kind of service to/from places like Washington and Consett which are left with no useful public transport service? Is there any suggestion that those local authorities intend to do it?

When you use their app ie X1 for today you get a page saying this service isn’t operating today..

The only thing is when you use explore is the app is tracking the 306/308 services (saying this as an outsider of the area).

 

[NorthOxonian]

When you use their app ie X1 for today you get a page saying this service isn’t operating today..

The only thing is when you use explore is the app is tracking the 306/308 services (saying this as an outsider of the area).

The app also no longer displays any stops (other than those on the school routes or Arriva 306/308). Though if you find a stop being served by a school route and a regular service bus, it will still display a ghost timetable (obviously without any real time running) for the latter - you just can't tap on any of the buses that come up to view the route! There's also no actual indication or warning that there is a strike taking place - nothing in the service updates nor on the main screen. In short, it's a buggy mess...

 

[jkkne]

Has the company now de-registered all its services? (Bar the school services which continue to operate.)

I don't know what the rules are about de-registering services which will not operate because of a strike, but they have all disappeared from bustimes, although the company is still showing timetables on its website.

Would be in order for the relevant local authorities to award emergency contracts to other operators to provide some kind of service to/from places like Washington and Consett which are left with no useful public transport service? Is there any suggestion that those local authorities intend to do it?

Nexus have said they investigated the possibility of covering routes but the scale required vs available resource in the region means they can’t.

Be interesting to see who covers the Saltwell Fireworks Shuttle that GNE are operating this coming Saturday

 

[kez19]

The app also no longer displays any stops (other than those on the school routes or Arriva 306/308). Though if you find a stop being served by a school route and a regular service bus, it will still display a ghost timetable (obviously without any real time running) for the latter - you just can't tap on any of the buses that come up to view the route! There's also no actual indication or warning that there is a strike taking place - nothing in the service updates nor on the main screen. In short, it's a buggy mess...

I did wonder why no update on the app in relation to strikes (I’m sure the previous strike was mentioned on app).

 

[DanNCL]

Has the company now de-registered all its services? (Bar the school services which continue to operate.)

No they haven’t. The routes are still showing as registered in the vehicle operator licensing service.

For GNE to de-register them they’d have to give 40 days notice unless the Secretary of State agreed to override it.

Would be in order for the relevant local authorities to award emergency contracts to other operators to provide some kind of service to/from places like Washington and Consett which are left with no useful public transport service? Is there any suggestion that those local authorities intend to do it?

It would be but that would involve Nexus and the local authorities in Durham and Northumberland making an effort, so it probably won’t happen.

Nexus have said they investigated the possibility of covering routes but the scale required vs available resource in the region means they can’t.

Be interesting to see who covers the Saltwell Fireworks Shuttle that GNE are operating this coming Saturday

If they’ve tried putting all the routes out as one bulk contract then of course nobody has the resources. If they did it on a route-by-route basis and on reduced timetables they’d almost certainly be able to get some very limited cover, at least to take people from their homes either to somewhere they can connect onto Arriva/Stagecoach from or to a Metro/rail station.

I’d be amazed if the fireworks shuttles operate.

 

[Christophe]

Has the company now de-registered all its services? (Bar the school services which continue to operate.)

I don't know what the rules are about de-registering services which will not operate because of a strike, but they have all disappeared from bustimes, although the company is still showing timetables on its website.

Would be in order for the relevant local authorities to award emergency contracts to other operators to provide some kind of service to/from places like Washington and Consett which are left with no useful public transport service? Is there any suggestion that those local authorities intend to do it?

Last time round some independants were operating the Hexham locals for free, not sure if that’s happening this time round.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It would be but that would involve Nexus and the local authorities in Durham and Northumberland making an effort, so it probably won’t happen.

They wouldn’t be able to register in time so they’d have to run for free.

It’d certainly be *courageous* of Nexus to use taxpayer money to fund a scab bus service, even if they could find someone to run it.

 

[DanNCL]

They wouldn’t be able to register in time so they’d have to run for free.

It’d certainly be *courageous* of Nexus to use taxpayer money to fund a scab bus service, even if they could find someone to run it.

They can get around the 40 day period by submitting a short notice request, which given the circumstances such a request would almost certainly be approved. It would still take some time but could definitely be done.

 

[Megafuss]

They wouldn’t be able to register in time so they’d have to run for free.

It’d certainly be *courageous* of Nexus to use taxpayer money to fund a scab bus service, even if they could find someone to run it.

I really really hope they do actually.

Nobody is talking about like for like replacement of the 21 or 56 routes. More like linking places which are totally isolated with virtually zero facilities, such as Blackhall Mill/Chopwell etc. For example, they'd just need a bus to High Spen or Rowlands Gill to link with other secured services, not a full service,.like GNE currently provide.

They'll be saving a ton of.money not paying GNE for contracts they aren't running, so why not?

I'd argue they would be duty bound to help if the can.

 

[DanNCL]

I really really hope they do actually.

Nobody is talking about like for like replacement of the 21 or 56 routes. More like linking places which are totally isolated with virtually zero facilities, such as Blackhall Mill/Chopwell etc. For example, they'd just need a bus to High Spen or Rowlands Gill to link with other secured services, not a full service,.like GNE currently provide.

They'll be saving a ton of.money not paying GNE for contracts they aren't running, so why not?

I'd argue they would be duty bound to help if the can.

100% agreed. If Nexus tried putting the whole lot out to tender as one contract for like-for-like replacement then of course nobody had the resources to do it. If they focussed on reduced timetables for specific routes where those routes are the only bus access to certain communities, and put it out to tender route by route, they’d probably have much more luck.

On the Durham side you could argue they should do the same with the 34. One bus an hour (meaning PVR of 1) which would allow those in Ouston, Pelton and Waldridge to get to Chester-le-Street, for onward connections by train or on the X12 should they wish to continue to Newcastle or Durham. It really shouldn’t be that difficult to resource one vehicle and a handful of drivers to run it, if not from Stagecoach or Arriva then from one of the independents. JH Coaches, Weardale, Stanley Travel just to name a few options.
There’ll be other examples where this would be a lifeline to communities but the 34 was the first one that came to mind.

 

[Snex]

I really really hope they do actually.

Nobody is talking about like for like replacement of the 21 or 56 routes. More like linking places which are totally isolated with virtually zero facilities, such as Blackhall Mill/Chopwell etc. For example, they'd just need a bus to High Spen or Rowlands Gill to link with other secured services, not a full service,.like GNE currently provide.

They'll be saving a ton of.money not paying GNE for contracts they aren't running, so why not?

I'd argue they would be duty bound to help if the can.

Surely the school buses which they can regain the money from penalties should be higher priority than some villages. I understand that some areas are cut off but kids education should and must be a higher priority.

Arriva and Stagecoach won't be doing anything as they literally have 0 driver's. The extra work at Walkergate and the Jesmond / Blyth fiasco have left both short without taking more work. Not to mention they have no spare vehicles to actually to do it anyway. Redcar is cancelling services due to engineering issues as it is.