Going to London... confusion.

[Moonschool]

Hey all, so next week I am going from Kings Norton to London Bridge and back.

http://gyazo.com/a7d7794e27a1507d3c1df967297ab66b

I got the tickets today by post however and it says From KINGS NORTON To LONDON TERMINALS and of course the other way round for the return journey.

I'm worried since it doesn't say to London Bridge, am I going to be okay or is there an error?

Thanks

 

[LexyBoy]

The tickets are not valid to London Bridge, only to Euston (or Marylebone or Paddington, depending on your route). You will need a new ticket to continue on to London Bridge (£2.30 tube, £1.50 bus using Contactless or Oyster).

Whilst London Bridge is a London Terminal, it cannot be reached on a permitted route from Kings Norton by rail, and this ticket does not include an Underground leg. You would need a ticket to Zone U1 London for that.

Unfortunately this is a known problem with certain ticket issuing systems. Who did you buy from? I would suggest writing to them asking for either the tickets to be replaced, or for compensation to the tune of the cost of your Tube travel.

 

[steamybrian]

deleted -subsequently answered by above post.
Agreed- NOT valid to London Bridge

 

[telstarbox]

The tickets are not valid to London Bridge, only to Euston (or Marylebone or Paddington, depending on your route). You will need a new ticket to continue on to London Bridge (£2.30 tube, £1.50 bus using Contactless or Oyster).

Whilst London Bridge is a London Terminal, it cannot be reached on a permitted route from Kings Norton by rail, and this ticket does not include an Underground leg. You would need a ticket to Zone U1 London for that.

Unfortunately this is a known problem with certain ticket issuing systems. Who did you buy from? I would suggest writing to them asking for either the tickets to be replaced, or for compensation to the tune of the cost of your Tube travel.

For future reference, if the OP buys tickets from Kings Norton to Elephant & Castle, would this avoid this problem?

 

[Moonschool]

The tickets are not valid to London Bridge, only to Euston (or Marylebone or Paddington, depending on your route). You will need a new ticket to continue on to London Bridge (£2.30 tube, £1.50 bus using Contactless or Oyster).

Whilst London Bridge is a London Terminal, it cannot be reached on a permitted route from Kings Norton by rail, and this ticket does not include an Underground leg. You would need a ticket to Zone U1 London for that.

Unfortunately this is a known problem with certain ticket issuing systems. Who did you buy from? I would suggest writing to them asking for either the tickets to be replaced, or for compensation to the tune of the cost of your Tube travel.

I used the National Rail website which then directed me to the Virgin Trains website. It costs more straight to London Euston which made me think these tickets must of been valid when I looked a few minutes ago. So contact Virgin Trains?

 

[LexyBoy]

For future reference, if the OP buys tickets from Kings Norton to Elephant & Castle, would this avoid this problem?

London Bridge is an appropriate terminal for Elephant & Castle, so it's valid as far as I can see (as long as the ticket was to E&C rail, not Underground). Greenwich is the same price. A London Terminals ticket + two PAYG singles is cheaper though (in most cases) though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I used the National Rail website which then directed me to the Virgin Trains website. It costs more straight to London Euston which made me think these tickets must of been valid when I looked a few minutes ago. So contact Virgin Trains?

What is the ticket type and what did you pay? I can't understand why Virgin would be showing a higher fare for Euston than London Bridge, if it's the same train.

 

[Moonschool]

What is the ticket type and what did you pay? I can't understand why Virgin would be showing a higher fare for Euston than London Bridge, if it's the same train.

Journey 1:
Adult 16-25 RAILCARD fare GBP 7.25 (1@GBP 7.25)
Journey 2:
Adult 16-25 RAILCARD fare GBP 10.55 (1@GBP 10.55)

They are both advanced tickets.


Here is the times I booked:
http://gyazo.com/4b0318b8dffd28725177813d8885cc33

 

[Zoidberg]

Journey 1:
Adult 16-25 RAILCARD fare GBP 7.25 (1@GBP 7.25)
Journey 2:
Adult 16-25 RAILCARD fare GBP 10.55 (1@GBP 10.55)

They are both advanced tickets.


Here is the times I booked:
http://gyazo.com/4b0318b8dffd28725177813d8885cc33

Do the tickets not show validity for use on the Underground leg of the journey? As far as I recall, it's a cross/plus sign.

 

[LexyBoy]

Hmm.

The routeing on those tickets is ✠VWC & CONNECTNS. The ✠ signifies that it includes one underground trip "where appropriate to the journey" - this generally means transferring between stations as part of a longer journey. Once you have arrived at a London Terminal - the destination on your ticket - the ticket has no further validity*. However I suspect that the journey planner has simply seen the ✠ and concluded that the ticket is valid.

Now, if it were me I would take a printout of your itinerary and make the journey as planned. Since the ticket has a ✠ marker, it should operate the gates on the Tube as normal. The only likely problem you could encounter would be if there is a ticket check at Euston and they try and take your ticket.

Alternatively you could try and get the tickets replaced by Virgin for the appropriate tickets, which have a destination of Zone U1 London and would be priced £9.55 and £12.55 in the equivalent "tiers". (Cheaper would be to use Oyster PAYG after adding your Railcard to the Oyster)

*certain exceptions in South London not relevant here

 

[Moonschool]

Do the tickets not show validity for use on the Underground leg of the journey? As far as I recall, it's a cross/plus sign.

The London Terminal ticket has a cross sign.

http://gyazo.com/2810bd4daf3a5637ebd3f7df98a4ec72
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hey again, I asked the Virgin Train live chat and they said the ticket is fine.

http://gyazo.com/eab7ef62042b637cd6d9c9df885d422a

 

[Zoidberg]

The London Terminal ticket has a cross sign.

http://gyazo.com/2810bd4daf3a5637ebd3f7df98a4ec72

Seems like all is well.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46587.aspx#travelling_continuing

Crossing London with tickets marked Ԡ

If your journey involves travelling via, or across London to connect with another National Rail service, your ticket should include the cost of transfer on Tube, Docklands Light Railway or Thameslink services between the relevant main London stations.

For example - a Hastings to York ticket is valid for travel on Underground services between Victoria, Charing Cross, Cannon Street or London Bridge and Kings Cross/St Pancras or on Thameslink services from London Bridge or Blackfriars to St. Pancras International.

To check if the cost of travel across London is included in your ticket, look for the ‘†' symbol which will be shown in the tickets ‘Route' information, e.g. [‘†' ANY PERMITTED].

Tickets displaying this indicator are valid for travel between any two stations shown in the ‘Station List' (below) appropriate to the route of the through journey being made.

You can ‘break your transfer journey' and leave the Underground at any intermediate station, e.g. if you are travelling between Victoria and Euston you can exit at Oxford Circus. However, if you subsequently wish to continue your journey by Underground you will have to purchase another ticket.

 

[LexyBoy]

Someone's messed up with creating the fares I think, as the route shouldn't have a Maltese cross for a London Terminals ticket.

That said, you have a contract with Virgin as detailed on the itinerary, and practically shouldn't have a problem as the ticket ought to operate the barriers on the Underground.

 

[Hadders]

I seem to recall we had a thread on exactly the same issue a couple of seeks ago. I'm oug and about at the moment so can't search for the thread.

We know the TOC's read this forum and are quick to close down loopboles etc. Let's see how quickly they can resolve this issue.

 

[gray1404]

is it usual for this ticket to have a cross sign? I would have thought that once the ticket reached Euston on the booked train (for the advance ticket) i.e. the London Terminal in this case, that it would have no further validity. Therefore, I am surprised that the cross sign has been printed onto the ticked as a cross London transfer is not required for this journey.

 

[BHXDMT]

Funnily enough I had someone present me with similar tickets last week - the tickets were to Advances to London Terminals marked "VWC & Connections" with a maltese cross (as described by LexyBoy & illustrated by the OP)

I questioned them about it, as I'd never seen anything like it before, but they produced their itinerary and indeed it listed Euston-Kings Cross as a tube journey at the end (they'd put Kings Cross as their destination).

I'm still none the wiser as to whether they are valid or work the gates... I always assumed they would need tickets to Zone U1 if they wanted to go elsewhere beyond the London Terminals.

 

[maniacmartin]

Here is the other recent thread. link.

This weirdness seems to happen specifically on Virgin Trains website.

 

[bb21]

They are towards the bottom of the page.

 

[Starmill]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110091

This has been a thing for quite some time. It was my understanding Virgin have been doing it intentionally.

I've had loads on my tickets where I never wanted or needed an Underground transfer.

 

[gray1404]

Is it only Advance tickets that Virgin are doing this on? i.e. not Off Peak or Anytime?

As tickets with the cross on them are only valid for transfers between London Terminals, you could only (as its Virgin) go to another Terminal station on the Understand and could not alight at just any LU station could you.

 

[PermitToTravel]

A tad daft, if that's the case, as most of the things that people will be heading to will be well inside an imaginary ring passing through all the terminals.

 

[Deerfold]

Is it only Advance tickets that Virgin are doing this on? i.e. not Off Peak or Anytime?

As tickets with the cross on them are only valid for transfers between London Terminals, you could only (as its Virgin) go to another Terminal station on the Understand and could not alight at just any LU station could you.

Although these are oddities, normally tickets with a Maltese Cross allow exit at a wide range of stations, not just London Terminals.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I had this same problem. Virgin journey planner used for Birmingham to London Victoria sent me a ticket to London Terminal + Connections. This was discussed as previously mentioned. The ticket office at New Street confirmed that this would not be valid beyond Euston. I would not mind but I paid £3 more for a ticket to Victoria compared to Euston. I am glad it is not just me.

Best wishes, Stephen.
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I have spoken to Virgin on 0344556560. They looked up my itinerary. As far as they are concerned London Terminal + Connections is valid to Victoria. This is not what their ticket office at New Street believes.

 

[PermitToTravel]

As far as LU staff believe, too - they'll just check for the +

 

[Starmill]

If your ticket has a maltese cross it's valid for the cross-London transfer, end of. It even states that on the back of your ticket!

 

[Hadders]

If your ticket has a maltese cross it's valid for the cross-London transfer, end of. It even states that on the back of your ticket!

But a ticket issued to 'London Terminals' is only valid to appropriate London Stations.

I know a Maltese Cross allows a cross London journey but it is somewhat ambiguous to say the least...

Virgin really ought to deal with this and issue tickets to 'inappropriate' London Terminals as either to that specific named terminal or to 'Zone U12 London'.

 

[PermitToTravel]

A break of journey is permissible on a cross-London transfer, so if this counts as one (and, if it's not a mistake, then it's presumably VT's intention that it does!) then the tickets are valid to most Z1 stations. Still daft.

 

[bb21]

A break of journey is permissible on a cross-London transfer, so if this counts as one (and, if it's not a mistake, then it's presumably VT's intention that it does!) then the tickets are valid to most Z1 stations. Still daft.

Only stations along a reasonable route, so for any particular ticket, it will not be valid at any Zone 1 station. For example, exiting at Earl's Court on a Southend - Birmingham ticket is not going to be permitted.

That said, I have heard from reliable sources that many LU staff will let you out anywhere on the network, because as far as they are concerned, the passenger has paid his share. This, however, is not the official line.

 

[Moonschool]

Quick question. If my return tube was delayed and I missed my return train, what would happen? Would I be able to catch the next train like a normal advance ticket or because it is the underground that delayed me they wouldn't want to know?

 

[Xmas]

That said, I have heard from reliable ...

Confirmed overground staff let me out at Sherperds Bush when I had a London Terminals paper ticket. Hemel to Euston was my normal ticket I did not realise that the TVM had an option for London Terminals and the southern service I jumped on to without looking as the doors closed was 15 minutes late.

 

[Chapeltom]

Quick question. If my return tube was delayed and I missed my return train, what would happen? Would I be able to catch the next train like a normal advance ticket or because it is the underground that delayed me they wouldn't want to know?

No, but in any case you should be leaving yourself adequate time to make the trip to Euston. If I had a train at say 1:00pm from Euston, I'd want to be arriving no later than 12:30pm to account for any delays on the connecting journey.