Got a letter for "intention to prosecute" while unable to provide the railcard

[batmanlondon]

Hi good people,

Background: We recently had a baby through complicated delivery in Feb and moved into purchased home in March end(28th to be precise), Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in London, as I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app and forgot about confirming with her. Once moved I was mentally harrassed by my landlord to clean the house so I had to go there on April 1st, assuming I had a card on her phone(we usually travel together and my phone suck and most often uninstalls trainline due to space limitations).

I was told to show the ticket in the train at my last stop and showed the ticket but was unable to produce the railcard to which I said, I have it with my wife and since there was no network there they said to send it on an email within 14 days I said okay.

Once reaching home I realised I do not have it and was quickly able to call them up to explain my situation and offering to pay the penalty fare in full. I was told I will get a letter in few weeks and I have to tell them all this in writing and not to worry and the lady even blessed me for going through such a difficult time and had empathy.

Cut to today, I have got this letter in mail and I am panicking and not sure how to reply. I am on skilled worker visa and have been a law abiding citizen all my life I cannot go to court
I am willing to pay the penalty and any admin fees and hope they consider my situation.

I am kindly asking you, how to provide this info in a manner that I can be offered out of court settlement as I cannot afford any such record on me as I am planning to apply for ILR in 2.5 yrs in this great nation, and recently had a baby and don't want to hurt his chances because of this mistake.

 

[Gloster]

I suggest that you post a copy of the letter in this thread so that the experts know exactly how the railway is handling it. Make sure that you obscure your name, address, any reference numbers or any other identifying details on the image.

 

[ikcdab]

Firstly, as noted above, you need to upload the letter with you name etc blacked out, so we know how best to answer.
Second, you won't have to go to court. If it gets to the stage where you are prosecuted, then it happens in your absence.
Thirdly, it sounds like you are having a busy time. Most people on here will know what having a new baby is like. But none of that is relevant. You travelled with an invalid ticket so you are guilty of fare evasion. If you own that and you are open and honest then you should be able to get through this quicky and move on.

 

[skyhigh]

If it gets to the stage where you are prosecuted, then it happens in your absence.

This is not 100% guaranteed.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Hi good people,

Background: We recently had a baby through complicated delivery in Feb and moved into purchased home in March end(28th to be precise), Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in London, as I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app and forgot about confirming with her. Once moved I was mentally harrassed by my landlord to clean the house so I had to go there on April 1st, assuming I had a card on her phone(we usually travel together and my phone suck and most often uninstalls trainline due to space limitations).

I was told to show the ticket in the train at my last stop and showed the ticket but was unable to produce the railcard to which I said, I have it with my wife and since there was no network there they said to send it on an email within 14 days I said okay.

Once reaching home I realised I do not have it and was quickly able to call them up to explain my situation and offering to pay the penalty fare in full. I was told I will get a letter in few weeks and I have to tell them all this in writing and not to worry and the lady even blessed me for going through such a difficult time and had empathy.

Cut to today, I have got this letter in mail and I am panicking and not sure how to reply. I am on skilled worker visa and have been a law abiding citizen all my life I cannot go to court
I am willing to pay the penalty and any admin fees and hope they consider my situation.

I am kindly asking you, how to provide this info in a manner that I can be offered out of court settlement as I cannot afford any such record on me as I am planning to apply for ILR in 2.5 yrs in this great nation, and recently had a baby and don't want to hurt his chances because of this mistake.

One point to remember - you say you thought you "had the railcard on her phone". But that's not going to sound a brilliant excuse even if it were true that the card was with her, since (pretty obviously) to travel legally on a train you must always [with rare exceptions which aren't relevant here] have the correct ticket with you, and (if it's discounted because of a railcard) have the appropriate railcard with you too. ("Having with you" can, naturally, mean being able to show an electronic version if you don't have a physical ticket.) It sounds as though you knew you didn't have the railcard with you (whether it existed somewhere else or not) - which makes it harder to suggest it was an innocent mistake.

Having said all that, as others have pointed out, depending on who you're dealing with and the exact thing they're threatening you with, it's the sort of thing that can probably be sorted out without going to court. So you need to show people here (after making it anonymous by blanking out all personal details, reference numbers, etc) a copy of the paperwork you've been sent. Then there are people here who can give advice.

 

[batmanlondon]

I suggest that you post a copy of the letter in this thread so that the experts know exactly how the railway is handling it. Make sure that you obscure your name, address, any reference numbers or any other identifying details on the image.

Attached the letter the post

 

[WesternLancer]

One thing you can do now is buy a Railcard for yourself (and be sure to check the T&Cs ref it's use eg for the Network Card you are not allowed to use it before a certain time of day in the morning IIRC) - buy buying one now when you reply to the railway you can say that you have done this as a way of ensuring the mistake dies not happen again - a practical action to show them you have learned from the situation and done something to prevent a repeat of it.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks for now loading the letter.

Given the railway company involved (Govia Thameslink Railway, or GTR), there's a good chance that this can be 'settled out of court', which will mean that you don't have anything on a criminal record or which will appear on a DBS. We don't comment on things to do with immigration, ILR and so on because we don't know enough about those, and we want to steer clear of the strict rules about who can formally give advice on those matters, so I won't say anything more on that point.

If you look through other cases, you will see that @Hadders gives some very good advice on what to say in response to a letter like the one you've received: they may be along later to give that advice, tailored to your situation. But put very briefly, if you keep in touch with the railway by replying to the letter, accepting that you made a mistake and explaining what you will do to avoid making the mistake again, then they are quite likely to offer you the chance to settle the matter by paying the train fare that you should have paid plus the costs they've incurred in looking at this matter (so think the train fare plus maybe £150). If you agree to this and pay the amount required, then you won't be taken to court, and that will be the end of the matter.

So it won't be cheap to sort this out - but you probably won't need to go to court.

 

[batmanlondon]

One thing you can do now is buy a Railcard for yourself (and be sure to check the T&Cs ref it's use eg for the Network Card you are not allowed to use it before a certain time of day in the morning IIRC) - buy buying one now when you reply to the railway you can say that you have done this as a way of ensuring the mistake dies not happen again - a practical action to show them you have learned from the situation and done something to prevent a repeat of it.

Thanks, yes I did that first thing after realising my mistake and I should mention that it will never happen again, it was a one off and not like a history of evading fares using railcard, I can also attach my letter of completion which will tell them I started using rail like 2 days before the incident
Can we attach other documents to support the case?
I want to writeup in such a way it can be settled out of court as I know it was a mistake and I fixed it asap by calling them to pay penalty as well as bought railcard right away, and I am not trying to avoid any penalty, I just want them understand my situation and mental state when it happened.

Thanks for now loading the letter.

Given the railway company involved (Govia Thameslink Railway, or GTR), there's a good chance that this can be 'settled out of court', which will mean that you don't have anything on a criminal record or which will appear on a DBS. We don't comment on things to do with immigration, ILR and so on because we don't know enough about those, and we want to steer clear of the strict rules about who can formally give advice on those matters, so I won't say anything more on that point.

If you look through other cases, you will see that @Hadders gives some very good advice on what to say in response to a letter like the one you've received: they may be along later to give that advice, tailored to your situation. But put very briefly, if you keep in touch with the railway by replying to the letter, accepting that you made a mistake and explaining what you will do to avoid making the mistake again, then they are quite likely to offer you the chance to settle the matter by paying the train fare that you should have paid plus the costs they've incurred in looking at this matter (so think the train fare plus maybe £150). If you agree to this and pay the amount required, then you won't be taken to court, and that will be the end of the matter.

So it won't be cheap to sort this out - but you probably won't need to go to court.

This makes sense and I totally agree to your points.

It's what I want, I am willing to pay the charges knowing it was a mistake and I took steps to correct it and making sure it never happens again future. I wish to proceed with out of court settlement and close this matter asap.

@Hadders I would really appreciate if you can help in the writeup or help review my draft response to their letter so I can get some normalcy back in my turbulent life, @Fawkes Cat really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Thank you.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks, yes I did that first thing after realising my mistake and I should mention that it will never happen again, it was a one off and not like a history of evading fares using railcard, I can also attach my letter of completion which will tell them I started using rail like 2 days before the incident
Can we attach other documents to support the case?
I want to writeup in such a way it can be settled out of court as I know it was a mistake and I fixed it asap by calling them to pay penalty as well as bought railcard right away, and I am not trying to avoid any penalty, I just want them understand my situation and mental state when it happened.


This makes sense and I totally agree to your points.

It's what I want, I am willing to pay the charges knowing it was a mistake and I took steps to correct it and making sure it never happens again future. I wish to proceed with out of court settlement and close this matter asap.

@Hadders I would really appreciate if you can help in the writeup or help review my draft response to their letter so I can get some normalcy back in my turbulent life, @Fawkes Cat really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Thank you.

I don't think you need to attach a range of documents, just basic info to indicate you have taken action to prevent the problem happening again (like a copy of the Railcard you have now bought for example)

If you draft up the reply you would like to send then people here can check it for you and suggest any amends that might help - But don't make it too lengthy - the staff who will read it will have to read hundreds of these replies and they will need to be able to read them quickly and make a decision easily (ideally a decision to ley you settle it without court action).

For example - all you need to say about the railcard issue is eg

You have 'recently arrived in the UK, mistakenly believed your wife had bought you a Railcard, you did not properly understand the rules around traveling with the Railcard, made this mistake as a result, but you now understand what to do. State you had no intention to evade any fare due'

 

[Craig1122]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet but it's also worth noting that only one person can hold a Network Railcard. Discount for anyone else is only applicable if they're travelling with the cardholder. So if your wife has bought a Railcard in her name it still wouldn't have been valid if you were travelling on your own.

 

[30907]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet but it's also worth noting that only one person can hold a Network Railcard. Discount for anyone else is only applicable if they're travelling with the cardholder. So if your wife has bought a Railcard in her name it still wouldn't have been valid if you were travelling on your own.

True enough, though I understood the OP to say that they asked their wife to buy them a railcard.
"Baby brain" is a wellknown phenomenon (says this grandad)

 

[batmanlondon]

I don't think you need to attach a range of documents, just basic info to indicate you have taken action to prevent the problem happening again (like a copy of the Railcard you have now bought for example)

If you draft up the reply you would like to send then people here can check it for you and suggest any amends that might help - But don't make it too lengthy - the staff who will read it will have to read hundreds of these replies and they will need to be able to read them quickly and make a decision easily (ideally a decision to ley you settle it without court action).

For example - all you need to say about the railcard issue is eg

You have 'recently arrived in the UK, mistakenly believed your wife had bought you a Railcard, you did not properly understand the rules around traveling with the Railcard, made this mistake as a result, but you now understand what to do. State you had no intention to evade any fare due'

Hello, thanks,

@WesternLancer @Hadders @Fawkes Cat and others, please have a look. I appreciate your time.

Here is my draft, please let me know and I can write it up and post it at the earliest.

"

We recently had a complicated birth in Feb and moved into purchased home in March 28th, Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in central London, since I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app as mine was crashing, and forgot about confirming. Once moved house, I was mentally harassed by my landlord to clean the house so I had to go there on April 1st on a short notice..

I showed the valid ticket but was unable to produce the railcard to officer since I thought I had it with my wife(there was no network on train so couldn't call her) they said to send it on an email within 14 days, I said okay.

Once I got the network on phone I realised I do not have it and was quickly able to call customer care to explain my situation and offering to pay the penalty fare in full, but was told to wait.

I have been a law abiding citizen all my life and as soon as I realised a mistake has been made I quickly purchased the railcard(attached) to make sure it never happens again. I have never had any intention evade any fare and I am happy to pay the penalty in full and any admin fees related to this. I hope we can settle this out of court.

"
please let me know if I need to amend it.

 

[Hadders]

Hello, thanks,

@WesternLancer @Hadders @Fawkes Cat and others, please have a look. I appreciate your time.

Here is my draft, please let me know and I can write it up and post it at the earliest.

"

We recently had a complicated birth in Feb and moved into purchased home in March 28th, Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in central London, since I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app as mine was crashing, and forgot about confirming. Once moved house, I was mentally harassed by my landlord to clean the house so I had to go there on April 1st on a short notice..

I showed the valid ticket but was unable to produce the railcard to officer since I thought I had it with my wife(there was no network on train so couldn't call her) they said to send it on an email within 14 days, I said okay.

Once I got the network on phone I realised I do not have it and was quickly able to call customer care to explain my situation and offering to pay the penalty fare in full, but was told to wait.

I have been a law abiding citizen all my life and as soon as I realised a mistake has been made I quickly purchased the railcard(attached) to make sure it never happens again. I have never had any intention evade any fare and I am happy to pay the penalty in full and any admin fees related to this. I hope we can settle this out of court.

"
please let me know if I need to amend it.

Don't send this letter, it needs changing. Cut out the excuses (they won't be interested in them) and conv=centrate on saying that:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I showed the valid ticket but was unable to produce the railcard...

If you were travelling using a railcard discounted ticket without having the accompanying, in date, valid railcard, you likely didn't have a valid ticket. So, don't say you did.

 

[alholmes]

so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app as mine was crashing, and forgot about confirming.

This statement doesn’t make sense. Surely if your wife purchases a railcard in her Trainline app then the railcard will be in her name, not yours. And if that’s the case, as it’s a Network Railcard you can only travel on a discounted ticket if your wife is also travelling with you and is carrying the railcard.

The fact that the app was crashing on your phone is unfortunate, but ultimately it’s your problem to resolve. We see many complaints on the forum that the trainline app doesn’t tell users when the railcard has expired, but I can’t recall ever seeing any complaints about the app crashing.

 

[batmanlondon]

Revised letter, please let me know if okay to send

"""


Customer Services
Govia Thameslink Railway

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Notice of Intention to Prosecute (NIP Reference Number: GTRXXXXX)

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute issued by Govia Thameslink Railway. I would like to sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused by my recent travel without a valid railcard.

On the day in question, I believed that the railcard was with my wife, who I thought had recently purchased it, but unfortunately, it was not. I acknowledge that I did not have the railcard on me at the time of travel, which was an oversight on my part.

I am a law-abiding citizen and this incident was a genuine mistake. As soon as I realized the error, I contacted customer care to pay the penalty fare and immediately purchased the railcard (attached). I assure you that I will always carry the railcard with me in the future to avoid any similar issues.

I deeply regret this oversight and want to emphasize that I had no intention of fare evasion. I am willing to pay the full outstanding fare and any administrative costs incurred by Govia Thameslink Railway in handling this matter. I hope we can resolve this issue amicably and avoid court proceedings.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,


"""

@Hadders

If you were travelling using a railcard discounted ticket without having the accompanying, in date, valid railcard, you likely didn't have a valid ticket. So, don't say you did.

Thanks, I agree, removed it, please let me know if revised response is okay to send. ^^

 

[notmyrealname]

I think your first sentence needs rewording, possibly. You say you don't want to make excuses and then go on to mention two of them.

 

[batmanlondon]

This statement doesn’t make sense. Surely if your wife purchases a railcard in her Trainline app then the railcard will be in her name, not yours. And if that’s the case, as it’s a Network Railcard you can only travel on a discounted ticket if your wife is also travelling with you and is carrying the railcard.

The fact that the app was crashing on your phone is unfortunate, but ultimately it’s your problem to resolve. We see many complaints on the forum that the trainline app doesn’t tell users when the railcard has expired, but I can’t recall ever seeing any complaints about the app crashing.

Yes it is my mistake, I should've checked with her, earlier she had two together card on her phone so I thought network railcard can also be purchased on her phone, so I asked her to do it but forgot to check on it as we were moving homes with the newborn, we moved on March 28th, had to go back to old rented apartment as landlord was harrassing me over deposit, and booked the ticket with network card already selected on the app and travelled without the card.

I think your first sentence needs rewording, possibly. You say you don't want to make excuses and then go on to mention two of them.

I wanted to convey my mental state and situation, will it help to provide this or just better to remove it altogether and keep it simple?
The letter asks me to what happened that day and to be honest so I thought to add those facts.

I think your first sentence needs rewording, possibly. You say you don't want to make excuses and then go on to mention two of them.

I updated the response, please have a look.

 

[antharro]

Right. Let's take a look at this. My edits are in bold and strike-through, with comments in italics.

Do not just copy/paste the below as your response. First, other members of the forum should provide their input. Second, you need to re-write this so it sounds like it's coming from you, not me.


Dear Fare Evasion Manager,

Reference: xxxxxxx

I am writing to you regarding the above reference.

We recently had a complicated birth in Feb and moved into purchased home in March 28th, Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in central London, since I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife to get me a network railcard in her Trainline app as mine was crashing, and forgot about confirming. Once moved house, I was mentally harassed by my landlord to clean the house so I had to go there on April 1st on a short notice..
^^^ All irrelevant. They will not care as none of it is a valid excuse.
At the time of the inspection, I showed the my valid ticket but was unable to produce show the railcard. to officer since I thought I had left it with my wife (there was no network on train so I couldn't call her). The inspector they said to send it on in an email within 14 days, I said okay to which I agreed. Once I got the network on phone was able to contact my wife, I realised I do not she did not have it. and was quickly able to call I quickly called customer care to explain my situation and offering offered to pay the penalty fare in full, but was told to wait.

I have been a law abiding citizen all my life and As soon as I realised a my mistake, has been made I quickly purchased the railcard (attached) to make sure it never happens again. I have never had any intention evade any my fare. and I am happy to pay the penalty in full and any admin fees related to this. I would be grateful for an opportunity to I hope we can settle this out of court, and I would appreciate the opportunity to pay whatever amount GTR considers reasonable to resolve the situation.

Yours faithfully,

Firstname Lastname

 

[batmanlondon]

@antharro Thanks for the response
Please see the latest response which I wrote after getting some suggestions from readers for not to add lengthy excuse as they won't care.
I also incorporated your response, please see in bold

"
Customer Services
Govia Thameslink Railway

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Notice of Intention to Prosecute (NIP Reference Number: GTRXXXXX)

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute issued by Govia Thameslink Railway. I would like to sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused by my recent travel without a valid railcard.

On the day in question, I believed that the railcard was with my wife, who I thought had recently purchased it, but unfortunately, it was not. I acknowledge that I did not have the railcard on me at the time of travel, which was an oversight on my part.

I am a law-abiding citizen and this incident was a genuine mistake. As soon as I realised the error, I contacted customer care to pay the penalty fare and immediately purchased the railcard (attached). I assure you that I will always carry the railcard with me in the future to avoid any similar issues.

I deeply regret this oversight and want to emphasize that I had no intention of fare evasion. I would be grateful for an opportunity to settle this out of court, and I would appreciate the opportunity to pay whatever amount GTR considers reasonable to resolve the matter. I hope we can resolve this issue amicably and avoid court proceedings.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,"

 

[MotCO]

I wanted to convey my mental state and situation, will it help to provide this or just better to remove it altogether and keep it simple?
The letter asks me to what happened that day and to be honest so I thought to add those facts.

Put yourself in the place of the person reading the letter. They have read every excuse under the sun, and they just want you to realise that what you did, inadvertently or otherwise, was wrong, and that you will not repeat it. Talking about your new born child, or anxiety, unless it is a diagnosed mental illness, will make no difference to the outcome.

Being honest with them, being sorry for your actions, and engaging positively with them are the main actions which give you the best chance o the optimum outcome.

 

[batmanlondon]

Put yourself in the place of the person reading the letter. They have read every excuse under the sun, and they just want you to realise that what you did, inadvertently or otherwise, was wrong, and that you will not repeat it. Talking about your new born child, or anxiety, unless it is a diagnosed mental illness, will make no difference to the outcome.

Being honest with them, being sorry for your actions, and engaging positively with them are the main actions which give you the best chance o the optimum outcome.

I agree, thanks for the response.
Please see my latest draft here and let me know if okay to send.

Got a letter for "intention to prosecute" while unable to provide the railcard

Hi good people, Background: We recently had a baby through complicated delivery in Feb and moved into purchased home in March end(28th to be precise), Earlier I was not travelling by train much as I was living in London, as I knew I will be travelling by train once we moved, so I asked my wife...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[notmyrealname]

Rather than say you're willing to pay the full outstanding fare, etc, it's normally recommended to ask if they will allow you to or say that you would be grateful if...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

@antharro Thanks for the response
Please see the latest response which I wrote after getting some suggestions from readers for not to add lengthy excuse as they won't care.
I also incorporated your response, please see in bold

"
Customer Services
Govia Thameslink Railway

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Notice of Intention to Prosecute (NIP Reference Number: GTRXXXXX)

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute issued by Govia Thameslink Railway. I would like to sincerely apologize for the inconvenience caused by my recent travel without a valid railcard.

On the day in question, I believed that the railcard was with my wife, who I thought had recently purchased it, but unfortunately, it was not. I acknowledge that I did not have the railcard on me at the time of travel, which was an oversight on my part.

I am a law-abiding citizen and this incident was a genuine mistake. As soon as I realised the error, I contacted customer care to pay the penalty fare and immediately purchased the railcard (attached). I assure you that I will always carry the railcard with me in the future to avoid any similar issues.

I deeply regret this oversight and want to emphasize that I had no intention of fare evasion. I would be grateful for an opportunity to settle this out of court, and I would appreciate the opportunity to pay whatever amount GTR considers reasonable to resolve the matter. I hope we can resolve this issue amicably and avoid court proceedings.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration. I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,"

(I've taken the above to reply to so that it's clear which version I'm commenting on)

I think this is fine. You can carry on polishing it forever, but it's now at a point where the best thing to do is to get it sent off so that you can move on and hopefully stop worrying about it.

 

[batmanlondon]

(I've taken the above to reply to so that it's clear which version I'm commenting on)

I think this is fine. You can carry on polishing it forever, but it's now at a point where the best thing to do is to get it sent off so that you can move on and hopefully stop worrying about it.

@Fawkes Cat Thank you for your reply.
I will send it asap. hopefully it gets resolved soon, will keep you updated.

 

[antharro]

@batmanlondon Looks good. I agree with Fawkes Cat on this, time to get it sent. Good luck.

 

[batmanlondon]

@antharro @Fawkes Cat @Hadders @MotCO @notmyrealname
Thank you so much for your inputs, they asked me to pay out of court settlement, the case is now closed.

 

[MotCO]

@antharro @Fawkes Cat @Hadders @MotCO @notmyrealname
Thank you so much for your inputs, they asked me to pay out of court settlement, the case is now closed.

That's good news - thanks for letting us know.

 

[Hadders]

This is good result for you. Thanks for letting us know as it helps us when giving advice to others in the future.