Grand Union approved for Cardiff to London open access by ORR from December 2024

[ChiefPlanner]

Swansea (North) Parkway. Keep it "regional" and snappy.

Gateway (possibly) to the upper Swansea Valley , Ammanford and the Towy Valley and North Gower.

 

[paul1609]

This is the park and ride on Google Maps its about 3/4 of a mile from the railway so presumably you have to get a bus to the platforms.
Apparently it was used for Swansea FC matches when they were in the Premiership.
I'd suggest Pigs might fly parkway as an apt name. That building in the background is the DPD distribution warehouse for the Swansea Area.
The railway is about the same distance again behind the building.

 

[Coolzac]

I think there's only one train a day that goes that way (Fishguard Harbour to Cardiff - a remnant of the boat trains I suppose ). Everything else naturally goes via Swansea.

Ah, I was mistaken that trains coming from Westwards would go through there. That makes things tricky.

Could they maybe introduce a Port Talbot - Swansea Parkway- Llanelli shuttle style service? (Obviously once resourcing has been sorted out). That would take around 45 minutes so two units could be an hourly service. Or is this getting a bit pie in the sky?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ah, I was mistaken that trains coming from Westwards would go through there. That makes things tricky.

Could they maybe introduce a Port Talbot - Swansea Parkway- Llanelli shuttle style service? (Obviously once resourcing has been sorted out). That would take around 45 minutes so two units could be an hourly service. Or is this getting a bit pie in the sky?

Not at all - it was considered as part of the options for timetable changes in the Welsh Route Utilisation Study a few years back.

 

[Chester1]

Ah, I was mistaken that trains coming from Westwards would go through there. That makes things tricky.

Could they maybe introduce a Port Talbot - Swansea Parkway- Llanelli shuttle style service? (Obviously once resourcing has been sorted out). That would take around 45 minutes so two units could be an hourly service. Or is this getting a bit pie in the sky?

Not at all - it was considered as part of the options for timetable changes in the Welsh Route Utilisation Study a few years back.

Even one unit doing a service every two hours would provide a usable service when combined Grand Union's 5tpd. If successful another unit could be added.

 

[paul1609]

Even one unit doing a service every two hours would provide a usable service when combined Grand Union's 5tpd. If successful another unit could be added.

Sorry but Im at a total loss what this service would achieve. The parkway station is in the middle of nowhere. I can sort of see its use as a parkway station on a long distance train but on a shuttle service? Is it going to become Port Talbot Parkway Parkway? even though its at the bottom of a cutting someway from the car park so it would need either a bus from the main road or the whole area landscaped so a new car park could be built. Even by Welsh standards this seems unlikely to go ahead.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Sorry but Im at a total loss what this service would achieve. The parkway station is in the middle of nowhere. I can sort of see its use as a parkway station on a long distance train but on a shuttle service? Is it going to become Port Talbot Parkway Parkway? even though its at the bottom of a cutting someway from the car park so it would need either a bus from the main road or the whole area landscaped so a new car park could be built. Even by Welsh standards this seems unlikely to go ahead.

A DMU shuttle from Llanelli to Port Talbot (or interworked from further west) would provide useful connectivity from that neck of the world.

Circulating via Swansea and the indirect "loop" via Neath has never really helped the train service offer in that part of the world. Various hugely expensive , involving new build options have been suggested relatively recently to alleviate this. The South Wales Railway around 1850 could have put an easier route , by passing Neath with an access to Swansea via Jersey Marine !


I agree that a decent car park needs to be adjacent to the proposed new station to make it work. I (from that part of the world) , would not describe it as the "middle of knowhere" - not a Ribblehead for example - but in a relatively suburban area with a certain propensity to using the car.

 

[paul1609]

A DMU shuttle from Llanelli to Port Talbot (or interworked from further west) would provide useful connectivity from that neck of the world.

Circulating via Swansea and the indirect "loop" via Neath has never really helped the train service offer in that part of the world. Various hugely expensive , involving new build options have been suggested relatively recently to alleviate this. The South Wales Railway around 1850 could have put an easier route , by passing Neath with an access to Swansea via Jersey Marine !


I agree that a decent car park needs to be adjacent to the proposed new station to make it work. I (from that part of the world) , would not describe it as the "middle of knowhere" - not a Ribblehead for example - but in a relatively suburban area with a certain propensity to using the car.

I think you need to go back there for a reality check, its admittedly not a Ribblehead but at least that would have tourist appeal, this is an isolated derelict ex steelworks with a couple of industrial units built on it. The station would presumably have to go on the site of the current wood yard.
Its the wrong side of the M4 for any local suburban traffic and a shuttle to Port Talbot Parkway would be totally pointless.
The attached satellite view from Google Maps shows just how in the middle of nowhere it really is.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I think you need to go back there for a reality check, its admittedly not a Ribblehead but at least that would have tourist appeal, this is an isolated derelict ex steelworks with a couple of industrial units built on it. The station would presumably have to go on the site of the current wood yard.
Its the wrong side of the M4 for any local suburban traffic and a shuttle to Port Talbot Parkway would be totally pointless.
The attached satellite view from Google Maps shows just how in the middle of nowhere it really is.

Fair point - and hopefully some sensible good hard looks can be made on this option.

(Back in the 1980's - after the rationalisation of the tinplate works - we tried very hard to get Coca-Cola to located a new manufactering plant there , or somewhere else adjacent to the railway - not just in South Wales - they ended up with a road based option in the South Midlands - not untypical really as road was everything)

 

[Kite159]

The odds of a new station opening to be served solely by an Open Access operator is minimal, unless they pay for the construction themselves.

But then again it is the Welsh government who does have a habit of wasting money

 

[Envoy]

We should also note that Grand Union will call at Cardiff East Parkway and Severn Tunnel Junction. The stop at STJ will be particularly useful for people in this south east corner of Wales and the nearby Forest of Dean. People from Usk, Raglan and Monmouth and all the many villages will surely find the STJ stop most useful. At present they have to drive over to Bristol Parkway to gain access to London trains and this involves some pretty jammed up motorways. Failing that, congested Newport would be the place to board London trains for SE Monmouthshire people.

However, I note that road access to STJ is difficult - see map. Ideally, a link should be made from the former toll plaza making use of the over bridge. A new road link to the station also needs to be made across the fields from a new inrterchange on the M48. I read somewhere that the Welsh Government would like to downgrade the M48 to an ‘A’ road so that they could insert a roundabout rather than an interchange. In my opinion, this would be madness as should a crash occur on the M4, the old Severn Bridge (M48) provides a suitable alternative route. Can you imagine what would happen if a roundabout was inserted?

 

[Noddy]

We should also note that Grand Union will call at Cardiff East Parkway and Severn Tunnel Junction. The stop at STJ will be particularly useful for people in this south east corner of Wales and the nearby Forest of Dean. People from Usk, Raglan and Monmouth and all the many villages will surely find the STJ stop most useful. At present they have to drive over to Bristol Parkway to gain access to London trains and this involves some pretty jammed up motorways. Failing that, congested Newport would be the place to board London trains for SE Monmouthshire people.

However, I note that road access to STJ is difficult - see map. Ideally, a link should be made from the former toll plaza making use of the over bridge. A new road link to the station also needs to be made across the fields from a new inrterchange on the M48. I read somewhere that the Welsh Government would like to downgrade the M48 to an ‘A’ road so that they could insert a roundabout rather than an interchange. In my opinion, this would be madness as should a crash occur on the M4, the old Severn Bridge (M48) provides a suitable alternative route. Can you imagine what would happen if a roundabout was inserted?

To be honest I don’t think it would be catastrophic as the Chepstow-M4 section is extremely quiet most of the time, and it is only on rare occasions that the M4 is closed but the M48 is open (currently the M48 is down to one lane (again!) for more repairs to the old bridge). More often a problem is when the M48 is closed but the M4 is open so you have traffic from east Monmouthshire and the Dean using J23A to do a U-turn back towards Bristol which causes both the westbound and eastbound carriageways of the M4 to back up seriously. So a link road between the two motorways and Severn Tunnel Station would definitely be a nice to have but I’m not sure it’s an absolute priority, given the other issues in the area.

 

[Cowley]

There’s a new discussion on potential new stations below now:

possible Felindre / Swansea Parkway station?

mods note - split from here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/777021/WEST_WALES_PARKWAY_STATION_SCOPING_STUDY_FINAL.pdf https://swalesmetroprof.blog/2019/02/05/a-swansea-bay-parkway-but-where-and-why/ Initial 2018 report into the...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[robert thomas]

A DMU shuttle from Llanelli to Port Talbot (or interworked from further west) would provide useful connectivity from that neck of the world.

Circulating via Swansea and the indirect "loop" via Neath has never really helped the train service offer in that part of the world. Various hugely expensive , involving new build options have been suggested relatively recently to alleviate this. The South Wales Railway around 1850 could have put an easier route , by passing Neath with an access to Swansea via Jersey Marine !


I agree that a decent car park needs to be adjacent to the proposed new station to make it work. I (from that part of the world) , would not describe it as the "middle of knowhere" - not a Ribblehead for example - but in a relatively suburban area with a certain propensity to using the car.

This would have involved a very high bridge over the River Neath which,at that time,was busy with high masted sailing ships right up to the town centre. The alternative would have been to tunnel under the river which again would have been difficult. The Rhondda & Swansea Bay Railway did start to excavate a tunnel but abandoned it. The river was ultimately bridged by a swing bridge at the end of the century.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

This would have involved a very high bridge over the River Neath which,at that time,was busy with high masted sailing ships right up to the town centre. The alternative would have been to tunnel under the river which again would have been difficult. The Rhondda & Swansea Bay Railway did start to excavate a tunnel but abandoned it. The river was ultimately bridged by a swing bridge at the end of the century.

Excellent point and thank you.

(Off topic - but thinking of Giants Grave at Briton Ferry , end destination not only for much rolling stock but also WW2 cargo and military shipping)

 

[stj]

We should also note that Grand Union will call at Cardiff East Parkway and Severn Tunnel Junction. The stop at STJ will be particularly useful for people in this south east corner of Wales and the nearby Forest of Dean. People from Usk, Raglan and Monmouth and all the many villages will surely find the STJ stop most useful. At present they have to drive over to Bristol Parkway to gain access to London trains and this involves some pretty jammed up motorways. Failing that, congested Newport would be the place to board London trains for SE Monmouthshire people.

However, I note that road access to STJ is difficult - see map. Ideally, a link should be made from the former toll plaza making use of the over bridge. A new road link to the station also needs to be made across the fields from a new inrterchange on the M48. I read somewhere that the Welsh Government would like to downgrade the M48 to an ‘A’ road so that they could insert a roundabout rather than an interchange. In my opinion, this would be madness as should a crash occur on the M4, the old Severn Bridge (M48) provides a suitable alternative route. Can you imagine what would happen if a roundabout was inserted?

The Grand Union plan is to link the M4 via the old toll plaza.The separate WAG plan is for a link to the M48 but I believe it will be a junction not a roundabout.There has been some debate as whether it will serve both directions.I believe the downgrade is to make it easier to build access to the Motorway.

 

[Prestige15]

I wonder how much of Grand Central and Hull Train's London traffic comes from Grantham, Newark, Retford, Doncaster, York and Northallerton; having through services would be nice but I suspect that a substantial number would end up mostly being used as an extra Liverpool / Preston / York train (and can the Cambrian Coast, Cumbria Coast and Esk Valley lines handle or justify a second train per hour - or 1 tph, in the latter case - and can trains from London get to Southport without using Piccadilly platforms 13 / 14 or a massive diversion through Victoria, assuming using Merseyrail lines is undesirable?).

London to Southport can be done by simply following the WCML as far as Wigan then divert to Wallgate onwards to Southport as theres access to/from the mainline.