Grangemouth - passenger services

[dcsprior]

Firstly, sorry if there's an existing thread for this. It feels likely there would be but a quick search didn't turn one up.

Has there been any serious proposal to run passenger services to Grangemouth? If not, it feels like there could be.

It seems to tick all of @Altnabreac 's 5 golden rules of a successful rail reopening:

Population of 10,000+:
Yes - 16.1k was the estimated population in 2020

60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre:
Yes. Would be 45-50 mins from Glasgow based on the timings of the existing train below; and probably about 50 mins to Edinburgh, changing at Grahamston

Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed
Yes - currently in use for freight trains

Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required.
Yes, trains from Glasgow Queen Street via Cumbernauld currently terminate at Falkirk Grahamston. They could be extended to Grangemouth

Regeneration Potential of a deprived area
Yes, Grangemouth Oil Refinery is scheduled to close in the first quarter of 2025

 

[Mgameing123]

From someone who doesn't know this area. On paper it looks solid but not sure in real life because I don't know anything about the area.

 

[SargeNpton]

The Falkirk Herald website says that Grangemouth Community Council is pushing for the reopening scheme to be reappraised. This is from March 2024...

Long journey to bring a railway station to Grangemouth now back on track

The long running quest to bring a railway station back to Grangemouth is steaming onward once more as a new transport appraisal is set to go ahead.

www.falkirkherald.co.uk

Grangemouth Community Council has been requesting Scottish Transport Appraisal Guidance (STAG) into the possibility of creating a passenger railway station in the town for some time and now members have confirmed the appraisal is is now going ahead.
As part of the process a drop-in event organised by design company Stantec will take place in Gragemouth Town Hall between 3pm and 7pm on Tuesday, March 19 to allow residents to hear their experiences of transport issues in the area.

The South East of Scotland Transport Partnership was looking at it a few years ago, but any reference to Grangemouth has disappeared from its website

 

[mangyiscute]

Furthermore, it looks like trains are currently given about 40 mins to turn around in Falkirk, so running it onto Grangemouth wouldn't even require an extra unit, and from what I can see on Streetview the line even looks electrified.
However, from what I can see due to the high freight usage, it could be an issue to park up a train on one of the two lines for about 30 mins each hour - however, I doubt this would be a project ending issue.
I guess the next question would be where could you feasibly put a station which would be in a good place for people to easily access it - since it would only need to be a single platform station, it wouldn't require too much space as no footbridge+lifts etc would be required.
Possibly alongside Union Road next to the Iceland would look the best option to me, especially since towards the southern end of the road you could potentially create more space by reducing the size of the car park on the other side of the road and moving the road away from the railway to make more space.

The other issue is that for most people living in Grangemouth, this would still be at least a mile walk away, which for most people is considered too far to walk for a train service.

 

[Buzby]

Having spent a fair bit of time in the area researching the Forth & Clyde canal - if there wasn’t a case previously there will be even less now with the Ineos (ex BP) refinery being shuttered and the workforce being lost.

The public transportation (bus) is pretty good and a fair number of service run from Falkirk to connect with the town. The nearby port is rail-served but suffers from lack of use as much of the distribution to/from here is by lorry or artic.

Since public funds would have to be spent I really don’t see this happening.

 

[dcsprior]

Having spent a fair bit of time in the area researching the Forth & Clyde canal - if there wasn’t a case previously there will be even less now with the Ineos (ex BP) refinery being shuttered and the workforce being lost.

Doesn't that mean there's more or a case, rather than less? The area will badly need regeneration, which a new rail service could help.

 

[hexagon789]

It was suggested as long ago as 1985, in an interview with then ScotRail manager, Chris Green, about the various implemented and planned improvements to ScotRail services he mentioned Grangemouth as being one of the next planned re-openings, utilising the turnaround time in the hourly Glasgow QS - Falkirk Grahamston service as the means to provide the service.

Of course that never came to fruition, though I've never found out exactly why as most of the other improvements did happen, even if not immediately and they were often only vague suggestions.

 

[Buzby]

As a ‘wouldn’t it be nice if’ exercise - I agree, but practically?

The line (to Carron Dock) has been declining in its usefulness as road Traffic continues to win out - the trackbed to the main sidings has had an Asda built across it. The line (if used) skirts the west side of the town, and as the bulk of passengers (housing) is in the east, it would be quite divisive for the money it would cost - especially if the level crossing is to be bypassed. As the ‘end of the line’ this isn’t like the old Queen Street LL terminating at Airdrie, then getting some track to extend it to Drumgelloch and subsequently (usefully) on to Bathgate and Edinburgh.

Industry is declining, the ‘port’ is a shadow of its former self, the timber ponds long gone, Ineos (ex ICI/Shell) now getting by with minimal staff and a town centre that has seen better days. For anyone wishing to head East, it would mean changing at Grahamston and crossing over for an Edinburgh service - not everyone would wish to go to Glasgow.

The Leven extension had a better connectivity offering, linking with the Fife Circle, and station in the centre. Grangemouth just doesn’t offer the same benefits.

 

[Stopper]

With the news about Grangemouth really being confirmed I’m sure this talk will arise again, even if Grangemouth is retained for aviation fuel freight.

While the turnaround time is there, and the electrified double track line is there, and no terminal capacity/extra units may be required, there are still some unattractive factors.

The GLQ-FKG service is currently only hourly, whereas the other service turns back at Cumbernauld. I’m sure both could be extended through to Grangemouth but the service is fairly slow and one of the lighter used services in the Central Belt. It takes around 45 minutes from Grahamston to Glasgow and would probably be closer to 55 from Grangemouth. The service would probably need to be more frequent than hourly beyond Cumbernauld if Grangemouth, along with Abronhill and Bonnybridge, are ever to be successful.

I believe Falkirk and Glasgow are the 1st and 3rd most travelled places for Grangemouth residents, and would both be served by this train. Edinburgh is 2nd, and Grangemouth residents represent a fair bit of Polmont-Edinburgh passengers I believe. There is no possibility of Grangemouth and Edinburgh being served directly by rail. Stirling is 4th, and while accessible from the Grangemouth direction, is unlikely to see a direct service. However, it has to be noted that a lot of Grangemouth resident currently work in Grangemouth and following the refinery closure may change their travel patterns to beyond the town.

Grangemouth is a decent sized town and in need of regeneration so it would seem a shame for a double track freight line to fall into disuse or be lifted when a one platform station could be built.

 

[Meerkat]

Make the easternmost line bi-di so only single platforms are needed.
One by the A905, with a big car park, one nearest the town centre.
Replace all the industrial units between the line and the housing with more housing*, and redevelop the hideous town centre with shops, offices, and flats.
* the industrial uses can be moved to now vacant sites on the refinery.

 

[mangyiscute]

The GLQ-FKG service is currently only hourly, whereas the other service turns back at Cumbernauld. I’m sure both could be extended through to Grangemouth but the service is fairly slow and one of the lighter used services in the Central Belt. It takes around 45 minutes from Grahamston to Glasgow and would probably be closer to 55 from Grangemouth. The service would probably need to be more frequent than hourly beyond Cumbernauld if Grangemouth, along with Abronhill and Bonnybridge, are ever to be successful.

It'll be interesting to see how the Leven extension performs, since this is (currently) similar as it's an hourly service and takes around an hour to the main destination (in this case Edinburgh, not Glasgow).
This could potentially indicate how successful similar extensions would be.

 

[Stopper]

It'll be interesting to see how the Leven extension performs, since this is (currently) similar as it's an hourly service and takes around an hour to the main destination (in this case Edinburgh, not Glasgow).
This could potentially indicate how successful similar extensions would be.

Think Leven will be a lot more successful than Grangemouth would ever be, much bigger place and catchment area attached on to an already busy service serving many big towns. Grangemouth would probably attract decent custom but it would effectively be an extension of a ghost service. The fact an electrified line is already in place may help the case though.

 

[numtot12345]

Obviously it would be costly, and not a a priority in grand scheme of things, but linking to Edinburgh side doesn't look too far fetched? I guess trains would need to cross over paths (as it wouldn't be grade separated).

 

[yoyothehobo]

Obviously it would be costly, and not a a priority in grand scheme of things, but linking to Edinburgh side doesn't look too far fetched? I guess trains would need to cross over paths (as it wouldn't be grade separated).

View attachment 165592

Its quite the elevation difference there on a tight curve. I can imagine any route there eating quite a lot of capacity

 

[lachlan]

Is there an obvious site for a station? The line seems to skirt around the outside, but I'm not sure where the "centre" of Grangemouth is?

Finding transport directions for Grangemouth is tricky as Google thinks the outskirts of Laurieston count as Grangemouth! How is the bus provision to Grangemouth?

 

[Stopper]

Obviously it would be costly, and not a a priority in grand scheme of things, but linking to Edinburgh side doesn't look too far fetched? I guess trains would need to cross over paths (as it wouldn't be grade separated).

View attachment 165592

Elevation is a bit of a problem there I think. Plus you’d need a new service to run into Grangemouth, whereas the Glasgow direction it would be a simple extension without interfering with any timetables.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Is there an obvious site for a station? The line seems to skirt around the outside, but I'm not sure where the "centre" of Grangemouth is?

Finding transport directions for Grangemouth is tricky as Google thinks the outskirts of Laurieston count as Grangemouth! How is the bus provision to Grangemouth?

There's a over bridge on Beancross Rd on the edge of Grangemouth, it's well served by the 3, 4, 909 and 978 and has good space for a station in the wooded area.