Grantham to Lincoln via Honington & Waddington

[70014IronDuke]

This line closed despite (and not because of) Beeching, according to this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=152826

To which High Dyke responded:

Indeed! Shameful... That said it reprieved the Midland Railway route from Nottingham - Lincoln via Newark.

Well, it's not a route I knew or know, but on cursory study of the geography, my immediate response is: why is this closure such a tragedy?

In fact, on a closure scale of 1 to 10 (where 10 is "Oh heavens, this was based on false data. What a terrible mistake, even at the time!" and 0 is "Every train I saw was empty anyway" - I'd rate this closure at about 1.

It must have been 20 odd miles of track through wheat fields and 5 villages, total population 2,000.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see any line close, but in terms of the damage done around the country, and even relative to that wreaked in Lincolnshire/East Anglia, this seems a minor closure. Far, far better to keep Lincoln-Newark-Nottingham, even with the flat crossing complication.

Put it another way: if today, it could be re-opened with a magic wand at no capital cost - would it carry any significant traffic?

 

[HSTEd]

Well why would you route trains via Newark when you could avoid crossing the ECML on the flat by routing via Allington?

Many of the villages between Nottingham and Newark have negligible populations and more trains on the Nottingham-Grantham line would likely have picked up more passengers from the much larger population centres in that corridor (Bottesford and Bingham), they dwarf anything on the direct route alignment.

 

[backontrack]

Well why would you route trains via Newark when you could avoid crossing the ECML on the flat by routing via Allington?

Many of the villages between Nottingham and Newark have negligible populations and more trains on the Nottingham-Grantham line would likely have picked up more passengers from the much larger population centres in that corridor (Bottesford and Bingham), they dwarf anything on the direct route alignment.

Fiskerton and Rolleston do serve Southwell.

The main centres of population on either route are around Lincoln; so the Newark route serves Collingham and North Hykeham while the Grantham route ran through Bracebridge Heath and Waddington.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Am I also correct in thinking that in Beeching time there was no spur from Newark Northgate onto the Lincoln line(opened 1965 - wikipedia) and thus the Cliff Route was to be the only directish way from Lincoln to London....

 

[Welshman]

Am I also correct in thinking that in Beeching time there was no spur from Newark Northgate onto the Lincoln line(opened 1965 - wikipedia) and thus the Cliff Route was to be the only directish way from Lincoln to London....

Indeed.
The Newark spur, built to allow the Cliff route to be closed, was part of the rationalising of Lincolnshire railways in the 1960s.

It also meant that for a while, until the remodelling of lines around Lincoln, the daily through service to/from London Kings Cross used St Mark's station rather than Central.

************
Interesting as they are, all the suggestions of this thread are mere speculation. Perhaps we should wait to read Mr. High Dyke's own explanation of his original description of the line's closure!

 

[daodao]

Indeed.
The Newark spur, built to allow the Cliff route to be closed, was part of the rationalising of Lincolnshire railways in the 1960s.

It also meant that for a while, until the remodelling of lines around Lincoln, the daily through service to/from London Kings Cross used St Mark's station rather than Central.

************
Interesting as they are, all the suggestions of this thread are mere speculation. Perhaps we should wait to read Mr. High Dyke's own explanation of his original description of the line's closure!

The logical rationalisation would have been to retain the line from Nottingham to Newark via Bottesford junction. Together with the spur from Newark Northgate onto the Lincoln line, this would have retained a Nottingham-Newark-Lincoln service, but enabled Newark Castle and the level crossing of the ECML to be abandoned. It would also have provided more trains to connect to Lincoln off London trains at Newark.

Given other closures, particularly in East Lincolnshire, closure of the Lincoln-Grantham direct line is not a major loss.

 

[edwin_m]

The logical rationalisation would have been to retain the line from Nottingham to Newark via Bottesford junction. Together with the spur from Newark Northgate onto the Lincoln line, this would have retained a Nottingham-Newark-Lincoln service, but enabled Newark Castle and the level crossing of the ECML to be abandoned. It would also have provided more trains to connect to Lincoln off London trains at Newark.

Given other closures, particularly in East Lincolnshire, closure of the Lincoln-Grantham direct line is not a major loss.

That line did still exist for freight up until around 1990, but I've never heard of a serious proposal for it to replace Nottingham-Newark. The latter line now has a fast and a slow each hour like Nottingham-Grantham, and I think a reasonable amount of commuting into Nottingham.

 

[eastdyke]

That line did still exist for freight up until around 1990, but I've never heard of a serious proposal for it to replace Nottingham-Newark. The latter line now has a fast and a slow each hour like Nottingham-Grantham, and I think a reasonable amount of commuting into Nottingham.

Newark Castle (station) can be very busy and 2 car units often full to standing towards Nottingham. Not just commuting, shopping and especially family leisure trips. And even more so now that it has a viable Sunday service.

 

[Calthrop]

Adding my not-very-transport-learned two-pence-worth: I travelled just once, one way only in 1964, over what is being called here the Cliff Route. This strikes me as a delightful expression, not previously encountered by me -- nicely descriptive of (all geography in basically modest East Midlands terms) the line’s following the high ground, just east of the same’s plunging sharply down to the Trent Valley plain. I reckoned it a delightful run; but then I’m a sucker for anything in my native county of Lincolnshire.

I find the point difficult to see, of BR’s closing w.e.f. 10 / 9 / 1962, four of this line’s five intermediate stations -- leaving just Leadenham open, until the line’s closure only a little over three years later. However, the doings of the bureaucrats in charge of us are often hard to fathom...

 

[70014IronDuke]

That line did still exist for freight up until around 1990, but I've never heard of a serious proposal for it to replace Nottingham-Newark. The latter line now has a fast and a slow each hour like Nottingham-Grantham, and I think a reasonable amount of commuting into Nottingham.

Well, it would have certain advantages, as laid out by the OP of that suggestion. Would be slower and longer than the Lowdham route, of course - and presumably taken more time to clear the ECML than the flat crossing. (I assume there was a flat junction south of Newark for the Bottesford line?)

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Well, it would have certain advantages, as laid out by the OP of that suggestion. Would be slower and longer than the Lowdham route, of course - and presumably taken more time to clear the ECML than the flat crossing. (I assume there was a flat junction south of Newark for the Bottesford line?)

And also land you at North Gate, a good 10-15 minute walk to the town centre, whereas Castle is only a 5 minute walk...

 

[70014IronDuke]

Well why would you route trains via Newark when you could avoid crossing the ECML on the flat by routing via Allington?

Just possibly because its more direct and faster?

Many of the villages between Nottingham and Newark have negligible populations and more trains on the Nottingham-Grantham line would likely have picked up more passengers from the much larger population centres in that corridor (Bottesford and Bingham), they dwarf anything on the direct route alignment.

Bingham has an hourly service, sometimes more, Bottesford is ignored by many trains (perhaps incorrectly, one might argue) while those villages you mention, plus the frequent and speedy service between the main population centres, seem to be filling trains via Lowdham quite nicely.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Indeed.
The Newark spur, built to allow the Cliff route to be closed, was part of the rationalising of Lincolnshire railways in the 1960s.

I hadn't realised that.
Why is it called the "Cliff Route" please?

... Interesting as they are, all the suggestions of this thread are mere speculation. Perhaps we should wait to read Mr. High Dyke's own explanation of his original description of the line's closure!

Where's a High Dyke when you need one, eh?

 

[Calthrop]

Why is it called the "Cliff Route" please?

I made a guess at that in my post #9.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

A few comments on the above (by someone born in Caythorpe!).

1. Fiskerton and Rolleston nominally serve Southwell but I have my doubts about whether many people connect to the bus service from the former (assuming it's still running).

Admittedly Rolleston serves Southwell racecourse (which is adjacent to it).

2. Re the closure of the stations on the Honington line, I'm not certain about Navenby or Harmston, but Caythorpe Station at least was a mile or more away from the village so not well placed to encourage traffic. Honington itself was/is not a very big place, and it's no surprise it didn't remain open for Grantham to Sleaford services. Leadenham was a better traffic centre, being, I think, the largest village, plus the station was quite well placed at one end of it.

3. There was actually a scheme, I think in the 1980s, for services from Nottingham to terminate at Newark Castle, and as has been mentioned, Nottingham to Lincoln trains would then have run via Bottesford junction to Newark. Although they would still have had to cross the main line it would have enabled the closure of the flat crossing, which was the main reason for the proposal.

 

[Calthrop]

2. Re the closure of the stations on the Honington line, I'm not certain about Navenby or Harmston, but Caythorpe Station at least was a mile or more away from the village so not well placed to encourage traffic. Honington itself was/is not a very big place, and it's no surprise it didn't remain open for Grantham to Sleaford services. Leadenham was a better traffic centre, being, I think, the largest village, plus the station was quite well placed at one end of it.

I overlooked that Honington station was also closed w.e.f. 10 / 9 / 62; though I must have been aware when "bashing" that area in '64, that it was closed by then.

Long ago, Ordnance Survey "one-inch" maps had a way of labelling rail lines, with their description of the route concerned and its ownership. I recall the presence in my childhood home, of an I think 1940s vintage OS map; which thus described the line (still running today) east of Honington toward Sleaford and Boston, as "LNER -- Honington & Boston". There was plainly no doubt in the map-makers' minds then, as to which of the two routes diverging at Honington, was the important one !

 

[desmo]

Waddington, Harmston, and Navenby were certainly a walk from station to population centre as the stations were below the "cliff" and the villages were at the top.
Never knew it was known as the Cliff route, but I live in an oldish house in the bottom part of Waddington (now known as Lowfields) and its original address was Cliffe View Cottages, so maybe that's where the name originated. These were farm workers cottages and what would have been my back garden was part of an allotment that would have extended back 100m to where the line would have been (have an old aerial photo somewhere of that). Progress and a housing estate put paid to that!

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Waddington, Harmston, and Navenby were certainly a walk from station to population centre as the stations were below the "cliff" and the villages were at the top.

So there we are, and together with the remoteness of Caythorpe station as I mentioned, it's no surprise that people used the bus service which ran along the main road through the centre of the villages.

As a child in the 1950s the only time I remember getting a train from Caythorpe station was on seaside excursions - it was always the bus for trips into Lincoln or Grantham. But when we moved to Leadenham later in the decade we did very occasionally make use of the train, with the station being more conveniently situated.

May be worth mentioning that the line was regularly used for diversions on Sundays when engineering work was taking place on the main line - often used to spend an hour or two on a Sunday afternoon watching the Streaks and the V2s and everything going past in the cutting at the end of the field opposite our house in Leadenham. It was a bit shorter than sending everything via the Joint Line - but of course that wasn't sufficient reason for keeping the line open.

 

[70014IronDuke]

So there we are, and together with the remoteness of Caythorpe station as I mentioned, it's no surprise that people used the bus service which ran along the main road through the centre of the villages.

As a child in the 1950s the only time I remember getting a train from Caythorpe station was on seaside excursions - it was always the bus for trips into Lincoln or Grantham. But when we moved to Leadenham later in the decade we did very occasionally make use of the train, with the station being more conveniently situated.

So, in terms of local traffic, this line was more or less as I first suggested, a 1/10 in terms of the "closure horror factor". And High Dyke has so far failed to turn up to offer any other evidence for keeping the line.

May be worth mentioning that the line was regularly used for diversions on Sundays when engineering work was taking place on the main line - often used to spend an hour or two on a Sunday afternoon watching the Streaks and the V2s and everything going past in the cutting at the end of the field opposite our house in Leadenham. It was a bit shorter than sending everything via the Joint Line - but of course that wasn't sufficient reason for keeping the line open.

It does appear to have been well engineered. Those Sundays must have been fun.

 

[Calthrop]

May be worth mentioning that the line was regularly used for diversions on Sundays when engineering work was taking place on the main line - often used to spend an hour or two on a Sunday afternoon watching the Streaks and the V2s and everything going past in the cutting at the end of the field opposite our house in Leadenham. It was a bit shorter than sending everything via the Joint Line - but of course that wasn't sufficient reason for keeping the line open.

It does appear to have been well engineered. Those Sundays must have been fun.

How did the diverted workings get back onto the East Coast Main? One would guess, most likely Lincoln -- direct route via Torksey -- Retford.

 

[High Dyke]

Where's a High Dyke when you need one, eh?

I am here. I hadn't realised my post had caused such a discussion.

Sadly the route closed before i was born. Yes it did serve the 'Cliff villages' along the Lincoln Edge, but the stations were some distance from the centres of population in many cases.

It served as a direct route to/from Lincoln, as well as a diversionary route for East Coast services. Many a time I've had a late night perambulation around the Joint line to then be transferred to rail replacement transport at Sleaford. Using either route would've seen trains to continue onward from Lincoln up the Joint line to Doncaster, it then being a straightforward return to the 'Towns Line' as the current route was known as.

The route served a number of industrial sidings along the route including ironstone quarries and Bracebridge Gas Works. However a shift to road transport or closure of the industries meant the importance of the railway was diminished. Yes in the grand scheme of things that Lincolnshire endured during rationalisation of its rail network its retention was probably not a high priority, but nevertheless it was another loss to the county.

As an aside it was interesting to read this extract from The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Stephen Hammond) during a 2014 House of Commons debate that was secured by the then Newark MP Patrick Mercer and supported by other local MPs regarding rail services between Lincoln, Newark and beyond.

The region will also benefit from the new “electric spine”—a high-capacity electric rail freight route connecting the east midlands with Southampton, making it much more attractive for firms to locate in the east midlands and getting more freight off the road. There have been renewals on the Doncaster-Lincoln-Peterborough line to improve safety, capacity, journey times and performance, and there is a £240 million fund for increases in capacity on the east coast main line, which will bring benefits. That is all before the introduction of new intercity express programme trains on that line, which will transform the journey experience. In addition, from 2018, completion of the Thameslink and Crossrail projects will significantly improve connections from this region to Heathrow. The Government’s rail investment strategy from 2014 to 2019 rightly focuses on strategic priorities for the network, but it will benefit the east midlands as well.

Source: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commo...14012735000002/NottinghamToLincolnRailwayLine

Obviously time and politics have moved on. Yet a number of changes have never been undertaken. Journey times have not improved in some cases, and the current operator still hasn't addressed deficiencies in timings of its services or scheduling. however that is a completely different debate.

Returning to the topic the low amount of local services that were timetabled, like many other lines, meant that patronage was decreasing, just at a time when car ownership was on the increase. Therefore the question could be asked, and it's still pertinent today. How much influence did the road transport lobby or car industry have over Government / Whitehall in pushing their arguments? What resistance could or should the railways have made and how would that have been achieved seeing as by then it was a Government owned system?

 

[Merthyr Imp]

It does appear to have been well engineered. Those Sundays must have been fun.

Speeds were not high, and a glance at the Oakwood Press history of the line indicates Pacifics and V2s were restricted to 50mph.

The same book also reminds me that Barkston station on the main line (closed in 1955) was also part of the Lincoln - Grantham service.

Northbound diversions would either have regained the main line at Retford or Doncaster.

I think the ironstone traffic had just about all finished by 1930.

What really killed the line in the end was the decision to retain the Lincoln to Nottingham line and the building of the spur at Newark so Lincoln - London services could go that way (a slight drawback for passengers there was the fact that facilities at Lincoln St Marks which they would now have to use were a lot meaner than at Central).

 

[backontrack]

Fiskerton and Rolleston nominally serve Southwell but I have my doubts about whether many people connect to the bus service from the former (assuming it's still running).

The Mansfield-Rainworth-Blidworth-Southwell-Fiskerton-Rolleston-Newark bus service (the 28) does still run today.

 

[ashworth]

The Mansfield-Rainworth-Blidworth-Southwell-Fiskerton-Rolleston-Newark bus service (the 28) does still run today.

Correct the bus does still does run hourly during the day but I don't think anyone would use it to connect Southwell with the train at Fiskerton. Nottingham City Transport now run a fantastic bus service from Nottingham to Southwell and Stagecoach a reasonable service from Southwell to Newark and Mansfield.

Many of the stations serving the larger villages between Nottingham and Newark including Lowdham and Burton Joyce are somewhat underused because the NCT Southwell to Nottingham bus is so much more frequent and convenient. I think that could be said in general for commuting into Nottingham from many of the stations like Carlton, Netherfield, Bingham, Radcliffe on Trent, Bulwell, Hucknall, Beeston etc. The buses and now trams are so much more convenient and more frequent than the train services and take you into the centre of the city.

 

[Merthyr Imp]

I think that could be said in general for commuting into Nottingham from many of the stations like Carlton, Netherfield, Bingham, Radcliffe on Trent, Bulwell, Hucknall, Beeston etc. The buses and now trams are so much more convenient and more frequent than the train services and take you into the centre of the city.

But the trains may be quicker. I can only speak from personal experience of commuting from Bulwell into Nottingham in the mid-1990s for a few years, and the train got me into town in half the time the bus would have taken. Admittedly that was before the trams started, but I should think the train is quicker than that also.
I do know that in my time the 1730-ish departure from Nottingham was standing-room only as far as Bulwell.

 

[ashworth]

But the trains may be quicker. I can only speak from personal experience of commuting from Bulwell into Nottingham in the mid-1990s for a few years, and the train got me into town in half the time the bus would have taken. Admittedly that was before the trams started, but I should think the train is quicker than that also.
I do know that in my time the 1730-ish departure from Nottingham was standing-room only as far as Bulwell.

I totally agree with you. I always use the train into Nottingham from Hucknall as it's a much quicker and pleasanter experience than both the bus and tram. The trains are well used by people travelling from further out like Newark and Mansfield, but for many reasons are not used so much from stations closer to Nottingham. A reasonable number of people still use the trains from these stations at peak times, perhaps because traffic delays the buses, but during the middle part of the day and in the evenings most people seem to use the buses.