Great British Railways - Competition for new location of GBR Headquarters

[Bartsimho]

I think you're vastly overestimating the significance of this one office. Red wall voters from the North East aren't going to care one bit about Derby. Manchester voters might be upset if their jobs in Square one are moved to Derby.

But there is the East Midlands Red Wall and it is a bit more of a battleground ad the North Midlands is the Red Wall but the more Southern Midlands isn't but could fall to them this time.

 

[zwk500]

But there is the East Midlands Red Wall and it is a bit more of a battleground ad the North Midlands is the Red Wall but the more Southern Midlands isn't but could fall to them this time.

Again, this is one office. Even a couple of hundred jobs is only going to make a difference in one seat. The fact those jobs are largely in admin roles, and would likely see reduction of similar roles in other NR offices means that for the people who care the net affect nationally will likely be zero.
Mor importantly though, a statistically insignificant number of people give two hoots about the location of an HQ. It's absolutely pointless virtue signalling trying to appeal to the 'nostalgia blanket' crowd alongside a bit of posturing to 'levelling up', but this office is not going to make anybody who does not work in it feel any richer, less hungry or warmer in their homes.
The primary objective was presumably to save money by moving the railway administration out of London and releasing the office space at Euston for redevelopment as part of HS2. I strongly suspect that GBR top brass will spend the majority of their working time not in the HQ anyway, as they'll either be in London to meet government or out and about on the Network to get photos for the company newsletter keep tabs on everything that's going on.

 

[pdeaves]

I wonder if all the bidders really understood the full implications that they aren't suddenly going to be inundated with money and a massive new workforce.

 

[DarloRich]

You'd expect the GBRTT (Transition Team) to be there.

BASED there not BE there.

Again, this is one office. Even a couple of hundred jobs is only going to make a difference in one seat. The fact those jobs are largely in admin roles, and would likely see reduction of similar roles in other NR offices means that for the people who care the net affect nationally will likely be zero.
Mor importantly though, a statistically insignificant number of people give two hoots about the location of an HQ. It's absolutely pointless virtue signalling trying to appeal to the 'nostalgia blanket' crowd alongside a bit of posturing to 'levelling up', but this office is not going to make anybody who does not work in it feel any richer, less hungry or warmer in their homes.
The primary objective was presumably to save money by moving the railway administration out of London and releasing the office space at Euston for redevelopment as part of HS2. I strongly suspect that GBR top brass will spend the majority of their working time not in the HQ anyway, as they'll either be in London to meet government or out and about on the Network to get photos for the company newsletter keep tabs on everything that's going on.

such cynicism. such accuracy.....................

It was the ideal opportunity to confirm the GBR structure, functions and leadership, but there is nothing in the DfT announcement apart from the location of the HQ.

But they don't know any of that!

 

[zwk500]

I wonder if all the bidders really understood the full implications that they aren't suddenly going to be inundated with money and a massive new workforce.

I would highly suspect that a fair number of people on each bid team fully understood such things. However that's not to say that having the HQ won't benefit the place it's located in - after all, there'll still be some staff based there and there is a wider supply chain that will gravitate towards Derby now. Particularly consultants.

 

[m0ffy]

I think Derby is a logical choice. It’s home to the RAIB already, and as previous posters have said, it has significant railway manufacturing already. It’s not relevant to the railway, but Derby is also home to Rolls-Royce and Toyota, and it hosts major offices for companies of national importance, including National Grid.

 

[zwk500]

I think Derby is a logical choice. It’s home to the RAIB already, and as previous posters have said, it has significant railway manufacturing already. It’s not relevant to the railway, but Derby is also home to Rolls-Royce and Toyota, and it hosts major offices for companies of national importance, including National Grid.

It's also geographically central to England, has good road and rail links to London and the wider country, as well as being a fairly significant distribution and logistics hub making it convenient for rail companies to be based there.

I'm personally of the opinion that York would have been a more 'natural' choice for the HQ, but Derby is a very sensible choice as well.

 

[43066]

Again, this is one office. Even a couple of hundred jobs is only going to make a difference in one seat. The fact those jobs are largely in admin roles, and would likely see reduction of similar roles in other NR offices means that for the people who care the net affect nationally will likely be zero.
Mor importantly though, a statistically insignificant number of people give two hoots about the location of an HQ. It's absolutely pointless virtue signalling trying to appeal to the 'nostalgia blanket' crowd alongside a bit of posturing to 'levelling up', but this office is not going to make anybody who does not work in it feel any richer, less hungry or warmer in their homes.
The primary objective was presumably to save money by moving the railway administration out of London and releasing the office space at Euston for redevelopment as part of HS2. I strongly suspect that GBR top brass will spend the majority of their working time not in the HQ anyway, as they'll either be in London to meet government or out and about on the Network to get photos for the company newsletter keep tabs on everything that's going on.

All very true.

For this reason the GBR headquarters should be in London, in my view. Unless Westminster is also going to be moved to the east midlands for the purposes of “levelling up”!

Then again I doubt they’d want it!

 

[Bartsimho]

It's also geographically central to England, has good road and rail links to London and the wider country, as well as being a fairly significant distribution and logistics hub making it convenient for rail companies to be based there.

I'm personally of the opinion that York would have been a more 'natural' choice for the HQ, but Derby is a very sensible choice as well.

I think York suffers from being too far North and very much on the Eastern side as well. With Branch offices elsewhere it might be considered too far from the South-West with Exeter a good 6 hours away

 

[WAB]

I think York suffers from being too far North and very much on the Eastern side as well. With Branch offices elsewhere it might be considered too far from the South-West with Exeter a good 6 hours away

Derby is optimum in this regard - not many places are particularly difficult to reach from there relatively-speaking (except Manchester and the south of England, perhaps)

 

[KashmireHawker]

Even if Birmingham lost out, Points 84-90 of the West Midlands Deeper Devolution Deal announced last week, states in detail between Pages 27-29 a major partnership with GBR, which will be established.

Look forward the specific’s of this and as a fellow Midlander, I am delighted!

84. The government will support the West Midlands Rail Executive, which represents the rail interests of WMCA and other local transport authorities in the region, and is chaired by the Mayor, in seeking a new rail partnership with Great British Railways.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1143002/West_Midlands_Combined_Authority_Trailblazer_deeper_devolution_deal.pdf

 

[zwk500]

I think York suffers from being too far North and very much on the Eastern side as well. With Branch offices elsewhere it might be considered too far from the South-West with Exeter a good 6 hours away

York is 2 hours from King's Cross. Zoom takes care of the meetings with regional branches.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

I would expect the positions to move but filled with new hires from the Derby area personally. Not least because moving staff out of London makes it very hard to stop paying them London rated. You cam advertise a new post in Derby for a lot less than a Civil Service salary.

When the BRB was created in the 1960s it chose Derby for some of its new HQ functions; BR Workshops was first, and this was located in a now demolished office block located somewhere near were Zara now is in the city's main shopping centre! Derwent House and Trent House in the Railway Technical Centre were built specifically as HQ offices, and BR Workshops moved into Derwent from the city centre; however, the Supplies Department - which had only been established a few years earlier - moved from London to Derby (it was located in Eversholt House, the old Railway Clearing House building in Eversholt Street) and many staff moved north with it.

Regarding the last comment about salaries, it was reported on the BBC East Midlands regional news some time ago (I think just before Covid) that the Derby South parliamentary constituency had the highest average salaries in the East Midlands, and Derby is also well up on a national comparison; Derby South is the home of Rolls Royce civil aerospace, Alstom, and many specialist supporting contractors, all of whom pay well. Cross the River Derwent on the ring road from Derby South to Mid-Derbyshire, and immediately after crossing is Rolls Royce Marine, the nuclear facility which will be involved with propulsion systems the AUKUS submarines, and a short distance on is Balfour Beatty; and drive west along the A50 from Junction 3 to 4 and you've got Toyota's Burnaston facility (in the South Derbyshire constituency)

Largely because of its good road connections, Derby is a magnet for people to work in from a MASSIVE area; I've been retired for quite a few years, but in the last office in which that I worked there were people who drove into Derby from Coventry, Rugby (both via the M1), Sutton Coldfield (A38), West Yorkshire (also M1), and a guy who drove from somewhere west of Birmingham via the M42/A42. Of course there were also people who lived closer - Nottingham is less than 20 miles away - but I subsequently talked to a friend who worked at Rolls Royce and after pausing to think, he confirmed that his experience of people driving into Derby to work was similar to mine

So although jobs can be advertised in Derby for less than a Civil Service salary, it's unlikely they will be filled with people of talent when much higher ones are already paid in the area.

 

[zwk500]

So although jobs can be advertised in Derby for less than a Civil Service salary, it's unlikely they will be filled with people of talent when much higher ones are already paid in the area.

Of course, it depends what jobs will be based at Derby. Comparison to highly paid engineering jobs is only relevant if they are actually looking for highly qualified or experienced engineers. My bet is that the HQ will be looking for a few admin roles and maybe a graduate scheme.

 

[DarloRich]

Of course, it depends what jobs will be based at Derby. Comparison to highly paid engineering jobs is only relevant if they are actually looking for highly qualified or experienced engineers. My bet is that the HQ will be looking for a few admin roles and maybe a graduate scheme.

Quite: They will be looking for high level managers and strategy types rather than engineers! The Chief Engineer might be based there with his direct staff.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Derby scored highest at the Expressions of Interest stage and also attracted the most public votes. The result of the public vote is listed below:

• Derby – 45,614 (22.22% of the vote)
• Doncaster – 40,080 (19.53% of the vote)
• Crewe – 34,416 (16.77% of the vote)
• Birmingham – 29,781 (14.51% of the vote)
• York – 28,234 (13.75% of the vote)
• Newcastle – 27,149 (13.23% of the vote)

Great British Railways headquarters | Great British Railways Transition Team

Following a national competition and public vote, Derby has been chosen as the location for the new headquarters of Great British Railways.

gbrtt.co.uk

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ticketing, "franchising" (ie TOC contracts), major projects (NPR?), analysis/competition (presently with ORR), national level budgets, cost management, rolling stock strategy etc, etc.
Far more that "a few admin staff".

 

[dosxuk]

Ticketing, "franchising" (ie TOC contracts), major projects (NPR?), analysis/competition (presently with ORR), national level budgets, cost management, rolling stock strategy etc, etc.
Far more that "a few admin staff".

But how much of that will actually be performed at the new HQ, as opposed to the existing other offices or that is decided is better to keep close to the DfT in London?

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Of course, it depends what jobs will be based at Derby. Comparison to highly paid engineering jobs is only relevant if they are actually looking for highly qualified or experienced engineers. My bet is that the HQ will be looking for a few admin roles and maybe a graduate scheme.

I wasn't employed in an office of highly qualified or experienced engineers, and neither were the people I've known who have worked in the various Rolls Royce facilities except for one.

It's true that the companies I've mentioned are all engineering ones, but good salaries are also paid by them to non-engineering staff within those companies in what can collectively be described as support functions.

Moreover, if some or all of the functions listed in post #347 are based in Derby, many are specialist functions and if GBR is to "poach" some staff from the railway-focussed companies based in and around Derby, they will need to be well paid to attract them.

Who knows, with the right offer GBR might even be able to attract Modern Railways Superannuated Anoraks back to work!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But how much of that will actually be performed at the new HQ, as opposed to the existing other offices or that is decided is better to keep close to the DfT in London?

The "DfT" currently has many of the staff who will be working for GBR in the future (eg the TOC contract teams).
They don't all have to move to Derby, but it must have a working HQ covering all these functions.
DfT rail staff are also based in Birmingham and Leeds.
If nobody moves, it won't work.

Scotland and Wales were notably absent in the announcement.

 

[HSTEd]

Locating different parts of the railway apparatus in wildly different locations hardly seems like a particularly sensible operational choice.

I suppose its required by the politics of "levelling up", but it would probably be be better to move towards consolidation of railway infrastructure. At least Derby already has an ROC.

 

[Bartsimho]

Locating different parts of the railway apparatus in wildly different locations hardly seems like a particularly sensible operational choice.

I suppose its required by the politics of "levelling up", but it would probably be be better to move towards consolidation of railway infrastructure. At least Derby already has an ROC.

If everything needs to all be in the same place everything should just be in London like everything already is.

The issue there is that as all the decision makers are in London they don't care about areas they don't see or visit as much so everything gets forgotten about just like it has done for a very long time already

 

[zwk500]

Ticketing, "franchising" (ie TOC contracts), major projects (NPR?), analysis/competition (presently with ORR), national level budgets, cost management, rolling stock strategy etc, etc.
Far more that "a few admin staff".

Is this confirmed? Last word I saw was that the transition team were still working out a lot of those details and hadn't decided anything.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this confirmed? Last word I saw was that the transition team were still working out a lot of those details and hadn't decided anything.

Well it's my best guess.
Anything less and it wouldn't be "Great" and lording it over the Regions.
And it's not to be "Network Rail Mk2" either.

 

[zwk500]

Well it's my best guess.
Anything less and it wouldn't be "Great" and lording it over the Regions.
And it's not to be "Network Rail Mk2" either.

I'm going to guess that ticketing and franchising will be split between thr DfT and GBR. Major projects are more likely to be based at route offices or QMK, similarly with analysis of access applications. National level budgets could be in Derby. Have to have a soft chuckle at cost management (reminds me of a line from Sir Humphrey about 'the public doesn't know anything about wasting money, we're the experts) and what Rolling stock strategy?
Don't forget there's always consultants.

 

[Worldwide]

Don't hold your breath for a substantive change. Quadrant:MK retains all it's functions, I imagine most of Square One Manchester will do so as well. There isn't much (if anything) left in Eversholt Street any more.

The New HQ could, in theory, be not much more than a reception desk, PO Box number and a boardroom to host visiting Transport Ministers.

I agree Eversholt St has gone now and in the future square one will be split between Stockport and Manchester Victoria

 

[Trestrol]

Apologies if someone has mentioned this before but I think the Derby office will be more concerned with the TOC side of things. There is a hell of a reorg coming their way cutting out duplicate rolls. Not to mention all the staff who argue over who to attribute delays to. NR are going through this now with Modernising Maintenance hence one of the reason behind the strikes.

 

[zwk500]

Apologies if someone has mentioned this before but I think the Derby office will be more concerned with the TOC side of things. There is a hell of a reorg coming their way cutting out duplicate rolls. Not to mention all the staff who argue over who to attribute delays to. NR are going through this now with Modernising Maintenance hence one of the reason behind the strikes.

Delay attribution isn't likely to reduce. Just delay attributers will TUPE from TOCs to NR ops. But you'll still have signallers disputing with driver managers whether they work for the same company or not.

 

[Andrew1395]

GBRTT ( all consultants and secondments), is at the Waterloo offices, Rail Delivery Group are in the city of London. They won’t move until GBR comes into existence -which is not guaranteed, and certainly not before 2025. Fir a start creating GBR will involve working with the lawyers in London, and central government.

Buts of both will carry on you would think within a new GBR. But honestly can’t see many of the current staff transferring to Derby.

it might even be like the Teacher Development Agency that went up to Nottingham. Huge amount spent on a new building, redundancies and relocation expenses. Only to be abolished two years later, and now most of its functions are carried out back in London.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

On the Independent website:

MSN