Great British Railways - Competition for new location of GBR Headquarters

[Worldwide]

GBRTT ( all consultants and secondments), is at the Waterloo offices, Rail Delivery Group are in the city of London. They won’t move until GBR comes into existence -which is not guaranteed, and certainly not before 2025. Fir a start creating GBR will involve working with the lawyers in London, and central government.

Buts of both will carry on you would think within a new GBR. But honestly can’t see many of the current staff transferring to Derby.

it might even be like the Teacher Development Agency that went up to Nottingham. Huge amount spent on a new building, redundancies and relocation expenses. Only to be abolished two years later, and now most of its functions are carried out back in London.

It’s will mainly be used as a hub for the industry it won’t have many actual employees based there having read the comms sent to NWR staff.

 

[Andrew1395]

It’s will mainly be used as a hub for the industry it won’t have many actual employees based there having read the comms sent to NWR staff.

A hub - like a community centre?

 

[Mugby]

If any of the GBR senior managers do have to travel between London and Derby at all, I hope they have a wonderful time being crammed into a filthy 5-car Meridian every time - although I expect they'll all have Gold Star free passes!

 

[Dr Hoo]

On the Independent website:

MSN

Any chance of a full quote?

The Indy seems to want me to register to be able to read it.

Thanks.

 

[Bald Rick]

This thread is hilarious.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any chance of a full quote?

I imagine it's the Independent's version of this paragraph from the DfT statement to parliament:

Great British Railways headquarters

Derby has been chosen as the city to be the future headquarters of Great British Railways (GBR).

www.gov.uk

Derby will become the heart of Great Britain’s rail industry, bringing together track and train, as well as revenue and cost. This means we will finally treat the railway as the whole system it should be rather than a web of disparate interests that it’s become. Passengers will no longer face the excuse-making and blame-shifting of years past. Instead, GBR will be wholeheartedly customer-focussed, serving as the single point of accountability for the performance of the railway. The rail campus, led by GBR HQ, will help position the industry to achieve this.

GBR will put customers at the heart of its reforms. It will reinvigorate the role of the private sector to help drive innovation with an unrelenting focus on quality, customer service and experience. Under GBR, rail journeys, buying tickets and ticket prices will be easier, simpler and fairer.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Any chance of a full quote?

The Indy seems to want me to register to be able to read it.

Thanks.

I didn't even get as far as that on my phone, but it opened OK on my laptop

I've attached a transcript as a PDF; this opened when I tried it - hope you have success too

 

[sprinterguy]

If any of the GBR senior managers do have to travel between London and Derby at all, I hope they have a wonderful time being crammed into a filthy 5-car Meridian every time - although I expect they'll all have Gold Star free passes!

Given the glacial pace it takes anything to get done on the railway, especially when the DfT is involved, I assume that the class 810s will be in service by the time the office in Derby is opened (So still 5-car trains but hopefully shinier), and I'm not even expecting their introduction any time soon.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I didn't even get as far as that on my phone, but it opened OK on my laptop

I've attached a transcript as a PDF; this opened when I tried it - hope you have success too

Thank you. I've got it opened on a PC now.

It will be interesting to see if abolition of the 'Blame culture' at the Network Rail <-> TOC/FOC interface might also extend to these forums where there is sometimes a regrettable tendency to blame particular industry structures, ownership models, political parties, Secretaries of State for Transport, managers, unions, suppliers, rolling stock designers, lobby groups for other transport modes, etc., etc., for any perceived deficiencies rather than promoting co-operative and cordial working towards continuous improvement.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Simon Calder thinks Crewe should have won the GBR competition, on levelling-up and connectivity grounds, and I agree with him.
Derby is in the prosperous Midlands, Crewe is in the deprived North.

MSN

"A straight fight between Crewe and Derby” – 13 months ago, that was how I saw the contest to become home to Great British Railways. The transport secretary, Mark Harper, announced that the body charged with reviving the fortunes of a failing railway will be moving to Derby. In total, 42 locations bid for the role as GBR HQ. But in the end, the East Midlands city triumphed over its rival on the West Coast main line.

The people of Crewe have every right to feel cheated. On the two key government criteria for the home of GBR – “alignment to levelling up objectives” and “connected and easy to get to” – the Cheshire town looks well ahead of Derby.
My friend Sean Moulton, who hails from Crewe, said within an hour of the decision: “In the course of a week, Crewe has seen HS2 delayed by two years and now has not been chosen as the home of GBR.”
Dr Kieran Mullan, the Conservative MP who won the seat of Crewe and Nantwich from Labour in 2019, may be becoming pessimistic about his prospects for holding the seat at the next election.

Crewe strikes me as the more deserving location. But perhaps the silver lining is that being located in Derby will remind the executives of GBR each day of how much work is required to restore the railways.
Unlike Crewe, which has fast and frequent electric trains to London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and southern Scotland, Derby is all diesel. The city was due to be hooked up to the electric network. But in one of those “money-saving” moves that will turn out in the long term to prove very expensive, electrification was abandoned by the last-but-three transport secretary, Chris Grayling.

In 2021, the last-but-two prime minister, Boris Johnson, vowed that the East Midlands main line between London and Sheffield, passing through Derby, would be fully electrified. This was a sop to the region after the eastern leg of HS2 from Birmingham to Leeds was axed. Make your own assessment of the value of a promise from Mr Johnson.

 

[DarloRich]

Simon Calder thinks Crewe should have won the GBR competition, on levelling-up and connectivity grounds, and I agree with him.
Derby is in the prosperous Midlands, Crewe is in the deprived North.

Neither are in the north but on the basis Calder suggests then it should be built in Hull or Hartlepooh or somewhere actually run down. Also this whole thing is just PR fluff to distract from the real issues facing northern towns that the specious levelling up agenda does nothing to actually fix!

 

[LLivery]

Being from the East Midlands I am very happy with this result. I am skeptical, however, at the idea of several major offices around the country. No matter how Zoom or Google Teams improve, nothing is better than having most colleagues being based in one building (excluding regionally focused work).

Simon Calder thinks Crewe should have won the GBR competition, on levelling-up and connectivity grounds, and I agree with him.
Derby is in the prosperous Midlands, Crewe is in the deprived North.

MSN

Crewe is the most southern major settlement in the entire 'North' - I know people from Newcastle who bearly call Manchester 'Northern', let alone Crewe. Crewe is also not *that* much better connected. Derby is one of the only places outside of London which has direct trains to London, Edinburgh and Cardiff. Plus frequent trains to Nottingham, Birmingham, Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds, York, Leicester, Bristol, etc. Give it a Manchester & Liverpool link and that's all the major cities covered - but even they're a simple change at Sheffield.

 

[The Planner]

Crewe is the most southern major settlement in the entire 'North' - I know people from Newcastle who bearly call Manchester 'Northern', let alone Crewe. Crewe is also not *that* much better connected. Derby is one of the only places outside of London which has direct trains to London, Edinburgh and Cardiff. Plus frequent trains to Nottingham, Birmingham, Newcastle, Sheffield, Leeds, York, Leicester, Bristol, etc. Give it a Manchester & Liverpool link and that's all the major cities covered - but even they're a simple change at Sheffield.

Crewe can claim Glasgow, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Manchester, London, Liverpool and Cardiff. Sheffield, Leeds, York etc all fall under the same scenario of one change. Its a bit tenuous.

 

[LLivery]

Crewe can claim Glasgow, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Manchester, London, Liverpool and Cardiff. Sheffield, Leeds, York etc all fall under the same scenario of one change. Its a bit tenuous.

Had forgotten about Crewe-Cardiff, but yeah, the difference is minimal. Especially as Derby isn't exactly far from the mining towns too

 

[WAB]

I imagine it's easier to persuade people to move to Derby or the surrounding towns than to Crewe.

 

[The Planner]

I imagine it's easier to persuade people to move to Derby or the surrounding towns than to Crewe.

Good luck with either, it didn't work brilliantly with Milton Keynes and that is spitting difference to that there London.

 

[Sorcerer]

Considering that part of the criteria for headquarters was alignment to transport connections and railway heritage, I personally feel like Crewe fits this better than Derby because what better place to GBR HQ than a railway town that is a central connection on the busiest mixed-traffic railway (WCML) with services to some of the most major destinations like London, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh as well being a potential future hub for HS2, along with a training centre and railway heritage centre which includes the Advanced Passenger Train. Meanwhile Derby's selection was allegedly based on having the UK's largest train factory (not a bad reason mind you) and having the former Railway Technical Centre in the south-east of the city which is now a business park and potential site for the new HQ building (unconfirmed at the time of this post). Truth be told, I believe the third part of the criteria (value for money) was the only one that ultimately mattered in the end because the business case is really the most important one. So ultimately I am not against Derby being HQ, but I will not believe it was a decision made with alignment to transport and railway heritage in mind.

 

[zwk500]

Considering that part of the criteria for headquarters was alignment to transport connections and railway heritage, I personally feel like Crewe fits this better than Derby because what better place to GBR HQ than a railway town that is a central connection on the busiest mixed-traffic railway (WCML) with services to some of the most major destinations like London, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh as well being a potential future hub for HS2, along with a training centre and railway heritage centre which includes the Advanced Passenger Train. Meanwhile Derby's selection was allegedly based on having the UK's largest train factory (not a bad reason mind you) and having the former Railway Technical Centre in the south-east of the city which is now a business park and potential site for the new HQ building (unconfirmed at the time of this post). Truth be told, I believe the third part of the criteria (value for money) was the only one that ultimately mattered in the end because the business case is really the most important one. So ultimately I am not against Derby being HQ, but I will not believe it was a decision made with alignment to transport and railway heritage in mind.

I don't think you can say Derby doesn't have railway heritage. It's the spiritual home of the Midland Railway. It had a major locomotive works, it's still the location of the NR test fleet. Whether Crewe has a greater connection to Railway heritage than Derby is a separate discussion, but there is no doubt Derby is a major part of the Railway history.

 

[Sorcerer]

I don't think you can say Derby doesn't have railway heritage. It's the spiritual home of the Midland Railway. It had a major locomotive works, it's still the location of the NR test fleet. Whether Crewe has a greater connection to Railway heritage than Derby is a separate discussion, but there is no doubt Derby is a major part of the Railway history.

I've no doubt it does, otherwise it would likely have never made the shortlisting, especially since part of Alstom's share in manufacturing the HS2 stock will be in Derby Litchurch Lane Works as well as your point of it being the location of the NR test fleet. I just personally believe that Crewe has a greater connection because it too had a major locomotive works facility for the LMS, works which will now also be part of Alstom's share in HS2 stock with assembling and maintaining the bogies along with Derby's works. I don't want to sound like I'm undermining Derby's railway heritage because that would be foolish of me, I just think Crewe's connection to it is greater, though if this debate does gain enough traction I will happy to engage in a new thread discussion about it.

 

[70014IronDuke]

At least it might ensure Spondon gets the stoppers that are set in the timetable!

And the Crewe trains get decent stock.

 

[GordonT]

Locating in Derby is logical from the point of view of not being perceived as being a WCML creature or an ECML creature.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

At least it might ensure Spondon gets the stoppers that are set in the timetable!

And the Crewe trains get decent stock.

And that Leicester-Burton, about 12 miles away as the crow files, is reopened post haste. Ha, who am I kidding.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Then next step is announcing the sites of GBR's Regional centres.
It's difficult to see Birmingham and York not being two of those.
It wasn't on the GBR HQ short list, but I'd guess Swindon will be the Western site.
So Crewe might very well lose out to those or others as well.
Newcastle and Doncaster were the other losing HQ contenders, but there can only be one Eastern HQ.

 

[lammergeier]

Good luck with either, it didn't work brilliantly with Milton Keynes and that is spitting difference to that there London.

Derby itself doesn't have much going for it, but it's not far from towns right on the Peak District's doorstep - (Matlock, Chesterfield, Wirksworth etc.) So for anyone whose main past time isn't shopping and who likes either walking, cycling, climbing, canoeing, caving, paragliding, birdwatching or all manner of other outdoor activities, I can imagine it's a great place to be based. Plus the house prices are a fraction of what they are dahn sarf.

 

[43066]

Derby itself doesn't have much going for it, but it's not far from towns right on the Peak District's doorstep - (Matlock, Chesterfield, Wirksworth etc.) So for anyone whose main past time isn't shopping and who likes either walking, cycling, climbing, canoeing, caving, paragliding, birdwatching or all manner of other outdoor activities, I can imagine it's a great place to be based. Plus the house prices are a fraction of what they are dahn sarf. What's not to like?

That ties in exactly with what I’ve heard colleagues say; the town itself isn’t up to much, but housing is dirt cheap and close to some nice places.

 

[Meole]

That ties in exactly with what I’ve heard colleagues say; the town itself isn’t up to much, but housing is dirt cheap and close to some nice places.

Derby is a Tory town, voting correctly brings rewards as Darlington knows.

 

[The Planner]

Derby itself doesn't have much going for it, but it's not far from towns right on the Peak District's doorstep - (Matlock, Chesterfield, Wirksworth etc.) So for anyone whose main past time isn't shopping and who likes either walking, cycling, climbing, canoeing, caving, paragliding, birdwatching or all manner of other outdoor activities, I can imagine it's a great place to be based. Plus the house prices are a fraction of what they are dahn sarf.

Makes little difference, especially if you are expecting people to move out of the South East. They won't do it and watch them put a commuting time limit that mitigates against it. The NR time limit has risen over the years.

 

[Altrincham]

I have friends in Derby who are hoping that this will lead to an upturn in the city’s fortunes. There’s an air of neglect in the city centre and it is hoped that, with this good news, those in charge of the running of the city can swing into action and give Derby a wider and much-needed boost.

 

[Bald Rick]

There’s an air of neglect in the city centre and it is hoped that, with this good news, those in charge of the running of the city can swing into action and give Derby a wider and much-needed boost.

“An air of neglect” is putting it rather mildly!

 

[lammergeier]

I suspect the Brunswick will be getting a boost if nowhere else