Great Northern Fleet - 379s introduction

[St. Paddy]

Judging by the amount of white dust on the track and the freshly painted white platform edges through platform 2 at Alexandra Palace, I assume the platform has had its edges shaved over the weekend and may soon be cleared for 379s

 

[jon0844]

Interestingly, the customer information screens at Welwyn Garden City (WGC) have included a note - prominently visible to customers - that particular trains are 'Class 387', although this might have stopped recently as I didn't see it last time I was travelling. It did not describe the class of any other train, but you could thus deduce that any other King's Cross to Letchworth, Royston or Cambridge working through WGC would be a 700 or 'Thameslink train'.

They used to say 700 and 387 but now just says accessible coaches in middle or coaches 2&6 or 3&7 depending on direction (for 379 and 387s).

As such, going forward you won't know 387 or 379 and indeed you wouldn't before either as it was a set message and would be wrong if the unit was changed. Now it can't be wrong unless a 387 becomes a 700 or vice versa.

Even now if a unit is short formed, it will say coach 2&6 and 3&7 even though there are only four coaches.

Only the last trains on Sunday that are booked to be 4 coaches get it right.

Judging by the amount of white dust on the track and the freshly painted white platform edges through platform 2 at Alexandra Palace, I assume the platform has had its edges shaved over the weekend and may soon be cleared for 379s

The last train from WGC last night didn't call at Alexandra Palace so I think you're probably right.

 

[whoosh]

The issue with gauge clearance at Alexandra Palace platform 2:

Whilst 379s and 387s have pretty much identical car bodies, it's actually the yaw damper brackets that connect the bogie's yaw damper to the body, that are the issue. They stick out quite a bit more on 379s.

This isn't a case of paperwork, but actual larger dimensions.

The 379s in service are running with a Q headcode to alert the Signaller not to run the train through platform 2.

Remedial work will take place at some point and the route restriction removed.


Something that IS paperwork, is that 379s currently are not cleared for HST speeds, so there is a section from Harringey to Holloway on the Up Fast, where the lower differential speed has to be adhered to, rather than the HST speed.
Again, this will be changed at some point - but this is a paperwork issue.

 

[jon0844]

I have seen something about 387 high speed runs in the last couple of weeks.

 

[whoosh]

I have seen something about 387 high speed runs in the last couple of weeks.

I don't know what that's about!

When Kings Cross was remodelled, there were some other changes as well. One of these was a couple of HST differential speeds from Harringey to Holloway. Class 700s, and class 387s (possibly 717s also, but I don't sign those) were added to the list of traction allowed to use HST speeds. It's a differential based on axle load and braking capability, and the 'non-HST speed' in the area is 75mph.
Class 379s were not requested at the time, as they weren't used on the route, but will be cleared at some point.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q79 0854 Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 13/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q79 0854 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 13/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q80 1452 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs | 13/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q80 1452 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs on 13/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q80 0934 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs | 14/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q80 0934 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Db Cargo Fan A And B Sdgs on 14/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[47444]

You can also get caught out if the infrastructure measurements change over time. For example, a 387 would remain as it has an existing valid SOC but a “new” 379 would have to be judged and authorised on the new measurements.

Most exceedances tend to be very small but organising the minor remedial work on the infrastructure takes ages.

I remember attending a Thameslink 2000 working group meeting many years ago when we were informed that a similar analysis by Network Rail had ascertained that class 319 units would not "fit" through Clerkenwell Tunnel!

 

[jon0844]

And no trains other than 313s could ever go into the NCL?

 

[D365]

And no trains other than 313s could ever go into the NCL?

There was a long-standing urban myth that a 378 had made it to Moorgate during an overnight period.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Thanks, is there some way of ideniflying 016 first working? BW DC

379016 first recorded workings I have are from 05/03/2025:

3L48 1641 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to London Kings Cross
1L48 1724 London Kings Cross to Letchworth

 

[windjabbers]

379016 first recorded workings I have are from 05/03/2025:

3L48 1641 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to London Kings Cross
1L48 1724 London Kings Cross to Letchworth

Thanks that really helpful. BW David

 

[bramling]

And no trains other than 313s could ever go into the NCL?

The NCL issue was presumably at least partly to do with the requirement for tripcocks?

 

[jon0844]

The NCL issue was presumably at least partly to do with the requirement for tripcocks?

It was said the tunnels were too small, but any stock at the time would have needed that added for sure.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Apparently 1Q09 has been a 700 for the past two days. What happened to the 379s?

 

[St. Paddy]

Apparently 1Q09 has been a 700 for the past two days. What happened to the 379s?

Only 4 fit for service, no spares currently. If one has problems or needs an exam you need something else to replace w

 

[windjabbers]

So I believe that this is s current situation with the 379 fleet

In Passenger service with GTR	4​	002/016/022/026
At Hornsey but not in passenger service	4​	017/019/025/028
At Kings Lynn – Staff Training	2​	023/029
Stored Wembley	2​	001/010
Stored Worksop	18​	003-009/011-015/018/020-021/024/027/030

Updates/Corrections welcome.

BW DC

 

[03_179]

So I believe that this is s current situation with the 379 fleet

In Passenger service with GTR	4​	002/016/022/026
At Hornsey but not in passenger service	4​	017/019/025/028
At Kings Lynn – Staff Training	2​	023/029
Stored Wembley	2​	001/010
Stored Worksop	18​	003-009/011-015/018/020-021/024/027/030

Updates/Corrections welcome.

BW DC

Looked at live system shows:
Hornsey has:
016+002
020+017
025
028
021
022
023
024
026
029

 

[Fincra5]

Apparently 1Q09 has been a 700 for the past two days. What happened to the 379s?

Can be swapped out as required by the depot.

 

[RailwayRookie]

Looked at live system shows:
Hornsey has:
016+002
020+017
025
028
021
022
023 <---
024
026
029 <---

My understanding is these were returned for some remedial work after ECS runs on to Downham last week.

There is conveniently a 5T90 running out of Hornsey at 11:08 today to King's Lynn so likely the stock being returned/replaced. But no allocation i can see as yet.


UPDATE
To confirm, 379025 was the unit running 5T90, so the 8 car that was stabled at King's Lynn is now a 4 car.

 

[60159]

Looked at live system shows:
Hornsey has:
016+002
020+017
025
028
021
022
023
024
026
029

Any at Peterborough please?

 

[windjabbers]

Looked at live system shows:
Hornsey has:
016+002
020+017
025
028
021
022
023
024
026
029

Thanks - thats really helpful. So more like, Would be good to work out which ones are at Peterbo.

In Passenger service with GTR	4	002/016/022/026
At Hornsey but not in passenger service	9	017/019/020/021/023/024/025/028/029
At Kings Lynn – Staff Training	0
Stored at Wembley	2	001/010
Stored at Worksop	upto 15	003-009/011-015/018/027/030
Stored at Peterbo Nene Sidings	?	?

 

[notverydeep]

Deleted

 

[RailwayRookie]

Reasonable assumption 025 is running 5Z81 and 5Z82 tonight from Kings Lynn to Cambridge and back, booked to stop at all stations but staying ECS throughout

 

[windjabbers]

Reasonable assumption 025 is running 5Z81 and 5Z82 tonight from Kings Lynn to Cambridge and back, booked to stop at all stations but staying ECS throughout

Ok thanks - now updated

 

[Teds]

025 did operate on its own this evening. Looked to have a couple of technicians aboard in addition to the driver.

 

[Class15]

So it’s currently the 16:42 to Peterborough and 17:24 to Letchworth that are Class 379 operated?

 

[The_Train]

My records have 379025 as carrying the name "Go Discover" - I presume this has since been removed?

 

[Robin Edwards]

Thanks - thats really helpful. So more like, Would be good to work out which ones are at Peterbo.

In Passenger service with GTR	4	002/016/022/026
At Hornsey but not in passenger service	9	017/019/020/021/023/024/025/028/029
At Kings Lynn – Staff Training	0
Stored at Wembley	2	001/010
Stored at Worksop	upto 15	003-009/011-015/018/027/030
Stored at Peterbo Nene Sidings	?	?

Nene sidings currently have unbranded 379027 & 379019
I'm fairly sure 379021 was at Hornsey on 28/2
379002 & 379016 were working north to Peterborough yesterday evening (13/3) and seen at Huntingdon

 

[60159]

Nene sidings currently have unbranded 379027 & 379019
I'm fairly sure 379021 was at Hornsey on 28/2
379002 & 379016 were working north to Peterborough yesterday evening (13/3) and seen at Huntingdon

Many thanks.

 

[windjabbers]

Nene sidings currently have unbranded 379027 & 379019
I'm fairly sure 379021 was at Hornsey on 28/2
379002 & 379016 were working north to Peterborough yesterday evening (13/3) and seen at Huntingdon

Thanks - thats really helpful to confrim the two at Peterbo's.

So this looks like teh current state of play

In Passenger service with GTR	4​	002/016/022/026
At Hornsey but not in passenger service	8​	017/020/021/023/024/025/028/029
Stored at Wembley	2​	001/010
Stored at Worksop	14​	003/004/005/006/007/008/009/011/012/013/014/015/018/030
Stored at Peterbo Nene Sidings	2​	019/027

BW DC