Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[Wivenswold]

So, and sorry to drill-down on the comings and goings, does that mean that GA have not signed leases for;
502/503/504/505/509/510/516/518/519/534/101/102/104/122. Though with the speed of changes lately, that's probably out of date since I typed this.

I have 516 being the only one to have previously arrived at Ilford, in Nov 21, before being sent back to the Alstom naughty step.

 

[450.emu]

Sorry to ask a silly question, but what are the differenced between the various sub classes of the 720's? Such as between the /0** /1** /5**
Is it seating layout, carriage formation or something else?

 

[Roger B]

Sorry just to clarify "bought" date, I'm told, is date GA signed the lease, after successful FFR & Inspections. The only other bits of info I have are that 720/103 went into service same day as bought and 720/122 arrived on site at Ilford yesterday afternoon.

Thanks for the clarification gdj - very helpful.

I saw 720541 in service on 31/01/23, but don't know if that was its first day or not.

Many thanks GeoffS. It would appear that no-one has recorded 541 being in service before this date, and, with quite a few people keeping an eye on the 720 situation, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that it wasn't in service before this date, rather than the date GA signed the lease (23rd Dec '22). Unless anyone knows to the contrary? .......

 

[Domh245]

Sorry to ask a silly question, but what are the differenced between the various sub classes of the 720's? Such as between the /0** /1** /5**
Is it seating layout, carriage formation or something else?

Purely administrative. The /1s are the vehicles that were going to form the 10 car units but converted to equivalent number of 5 cars and are otherwise identical to the /5s. There's no /0s but there are some /6s which are again the same train but for c2c rather than GA

 

[60159]

So, and sorry to drill-down on the comings and goings, does that mean that GA have not signed leases for;
502/503/504/505/509/510/516/518/519/534/101/102/104/122. Though with the speed of changes lately, that's probably out of date since I typed this.

I have 516 being the only one to have previously arrived at Ilford, in Nov 21, before being sent back to the Alstom naughty step.

The only 2 queries I have relate to whether 544 (bought) and 583 ( been at Ilford for some time) have actually appeared in service. Can anyone confirm? May have missed info in postings.

 

[47584Suffolk]

The only 2 queries I have relate to whether 544 (bought) and 583 ( been at Ilford for some time) have actually appeared in service. Can anyone confirm? May have missed info in postings.

720544 worked its first train (06:32 Liverpool St to Colchester Town) on 8/2. 720119 followed on 14/2 (05:45 Shenfield to Braintree) and 720121 on 16/2 (first train not yet known).

720583 was delivered IL on 22/11/22 but has still not been added to GA's fleet after a number of (presumably unsuccessful) FFR trial runs. Indeed, I've heard that one car (451583) was seen at Litchurch Lane only yesterday. If so, then presumably is was moved by road. Can anyone please confirm and/or advise what the problem is with this unit?

Re 720516, this is the test bed unit. Last February, it undertook trials to Norwich so I took a close look and found it carried heavy weights in vestibule areas and sandbags in the saloons (most seats removed). The unit was festooned with cables which led to desks manned by two technicians sitting in front of a bank of monitors.

I understand that 720518 and 720519 may also take awhile to enter service. After WCML testing during 2020, both were taken to Old Dalby so possibly they too are all wired up. Both were moved (separately) to Derby last November.

 

[60159]

Total clarity thanks.

 

[swt_passenger]

I noticed a short piece in the March Modern Railways magazine reporting that the GA 720s were going to have 18 seats, (and 9 perch seats), removed from each 5 car unit to increase circulation space near the doors.

My apologies if this is mentioned somewhere earlier.

 

[APT618S]

Many thanks GeoffS. It would appear that no-one has recorded 541 being in service before this date, and, with quite a few people keeping an eye on the 720 situation, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that it wasn't in service before this date, rather than the date GA signed the lease (23rd Dec '22). Unless anyone knows to the contrary? .......

I had 720541 for haulage on 16/01/23. Working was 1N44 1712 LST CLT. (Liverpool St - Clacton) it was paired with 720562.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I noticed a short piece in the March Modern Railways magazine reporting that the GA 720s were going to have 18 seats, (and 9 perch seats), removed from each 5 car unit to increase circulation space near the doors.

My apologies if this is mentioned somewhere earlier.

I wonder if this is from experience with the C2C units, which have a slightly different layout a bit closer to the Class 323?

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if this is from experience with the C2C units

Hardly. The c2c units haven't carried passengers yet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hardly. The c2c units haven't carried passengers yet.

Ah, I thought they had one in service already.

They do have a different layout more like the modification described, though, with the 3+2 not going all the way to the vestibule.

 

[Roger B]

I had 720541 for haulage on 16/01/23. Working was 1N44 1712 LST CLT. (Liverpool St - Clacton) it was paired with 720562.

Many thanks APT618S - I'll update my records accordingly

 

[Alfie1014]

Can confirm 120 has the slightly reduced seating layout a la 118.

 

[450.emu]

Purely administrative. The /1s are the vehicles that were going to form the 10 car units but converted to equivalent number of 5 cars and are otherwise identical to the /5s. There's no /0s but there are some /6s which are again the same train but for c2c rather than GA

Thanks so much for the explanation!

I was curious to see if any 720's had ventured down the jointed track from Thorpe-le-Soken to Kirby Cross yet on the Walton line, and if anyone had any YouTube videos Not too sure how many 321's are still around

 

[The_Train]

720544 worked its first train (06:32 Liverpool St to Colchester Town) on 8/2. 720119 followed on 14/2 (05:45 Shenfield to Braintree) and 720121 on 16/2 (first train not yet known).

720583 was delivered IL on 22/11/22 but has still not been added to GA's fleet after a number of (presumably unsuccessful) FFR trial runs. Indeed, I've heard that one car (451583) was seen at Litchurch Lane only yesterday. If so, then presumably is was moved by road. Can anyone please confirm and/or advise what the problem is with this unit?

Re 720516, this is the test bed unit. Last February, it undertook trials to Norwich so I took a close look and found it carried heavy weights in vestibule areas and sandbags in the saloons (most seats removed). The unit was festooned with cables which led to desks manned by two technicians sitting in front of a bank of monitors.

I understand that 720518 and 720519 may also take awhile to enter service. After WCML testing during 2020, both were taken to Old Dalby so possibly they too are all wired up. Both were moved (separately) to Derby last November.

Great update - any idea when 518 went to Old Dalby please? My records have 519 as going around mid-Feb 2021 so presumably 518 around the same time?

 

[Wivenswold]

Not wishing to distract from the 720 chat, but there are, at best, 12 Class 321s available for service. 720s have been running to Walton for a while.

 

[Alfie1014]

Thanks so much for the explanation!

I was curious to see if any 720's had ventured down the jointed track from Thorpe-le-Soken to Kirby Cross yet on the Walton line, and if anyone had any YouTube videos Not too sure how many 321's are still around

I stand to be corrected but 720s started working regularly down the Walton branch briefly from the December 2021 timetable change. On weekdays they worked the 16:17 Liverpool Street to Walton (which up until this time was in fact two trains 16:17 Liv St to Witham and 17:26 Colchester to Walton peak additional). From the timetable change these two trains were joined running through between Witham and Colchester as a 5 car 720. This only ran until Christmas Eve when the seasonal Christmas and New Year engineering work curtailed through running. It started briefly again after the holidays only to disappear when the Omicron variant caused the massive reduction to services. Through services to Liv St have never been restored. Odd workings have happened since (between last Christmas and New Year I think all Clacton/Walton shuttles were booked to be 720s I didn’t see any 321s during this period and 720s worked some Walton services during the Clacton Airshow) but the base service is now 321s for the time being.

 

[GeoffS]

720544 worked its first train (06:32 Liverpool St to Colchester Town) on 8/2. 720119 followed on 14/2 (05:45 Shenfield to Braintree) and 720121 on 16/2 (first train not yet known).

720583 was delivered IL on 22/11/22 but has still not been added to GA's fleet after a number of (presumably unsuccessful) FFR trial runs. Indeed, I've heard that one car (451583) was seen at Litchurch Lane only yesterday. If so, then presumably is was moved by road. Can anyone please confirm and/or advise what the problem is with this unit?

Re 720516, this is the test bed unit. Last February, it undertook trials to Norwich so I took a close look and found it carried heavy weights in vestibule areas and sandbags in the saloons (most seats removed). The unit was festooned with cables which led to desks manned by two technicians sitting in front of a bank of monitors.

I understand that 720518 and 720519 may also take awhile to enter service. After WCML testing during 2020, both were taken to Old Dalby so possibly they too are all wired up. Both were moved (separately) to Derby last November.

Weren't 345018 and 345019 similarly taken to Old Dalby? Coincidence that units 18 and 19 have been used for this purpose twice??

 

[AC47461]

720583 was delivered IL on 22/11/22 but has still not been added to GA's fleet after a number of (presumably unsuccessful) FFR trial runs. Indeed, I've heard that one car (451583) was seen at Litchurch Lane only yesterday. If so, then presumably is was moved by road. Can anyone please confirm and/or advise what the problem is with this unit?

I've heard that something (unspecified) kept tripping every time it went out on test, and had been back to Derby a few times, but nothing more. It does appear to be the main one on the naughty step though.

 

[warwickshire]

I stand to be corrected but 720s started working regularly down the Walton branch briefly from the December 2021 timetable change. On weekdays they worked the 16:17 Liverpool Street to Walton (which up until this time was in fact two trains 16:17 Liv St to Witham and 17:26 Colchester to Walton peak additional). From the timetable change these two trains were joined running through between Witham and Colchester as a 5 car 720. This only ran until Christmas Eve when the seasonal Christmas and New Year engineering work curtailed through running. It started briefly again after the holidays only to disappear when the Omicron variant caused the massive reduction to services. Through services to Liv St have never been restored. Odd workings have happened since (between last Christmas and New Year I think all Clacton/Walton shuttles were booked to be 720s I didn’t see any 321s during this period and 720s worked some Walton services during the Clacton Airshow) but the base service is now 321s for the time being.

Its changed Weekends back to 720s.
Unless its something to do with Shenfield blockade. Again take with a pinch of salt disclaimer. Some Anglia staff have informed me that the 321s will end shortly ie before summer However any guess is your guess.
But as they are limited now to the branches but only apparently have booked diagrams on the weekdays.

It's out and about. At Wickford at 1435 witnessed on the 5G40 1415 Southend Victoria to Shenfield was 720122.
Ready for next week maybe on the Southminster line to replace a 321?
However 720122 on test with fleet and fitters etc on board and tested the doors.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q68 1007 Derby Litchurch Lane to Willesden T.M.D | 25/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q68 1007 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Willesden T.M.D on 25/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

47727 720124

 

[St. Paddy]

720124? That’s amazing. So many comments on here that 123-144 weren’t being built yet!!!

 

[Peter Sarf]

720124? That’s amazing. So many comments on here that 123-144 weren’t being built yet!!!

Same here. Those comments might be unfounded but I would expect a pause in production as the extra 12 pairs of cabs and equipment would have needed a certain lead time. Alternatively perhaps its a typo and is one of the following :-

So, and sorry to drill-down on the comings and goings, does that mean that GA have not signed leases for;
502/503/504/505/509/510/516/518/519/534/101/102/104/122. Though with the speed of changes lately, that's probably out of date since I typed this.

I have 516 being the only one to have previously arrived at Ilford, in Nov 21, before being sent back to the Alstom naughty step.

So maybe a typo for 104 or 122 ?.

 

[CR165022]

Same here. Perhaps its a typo and one of the following :-

Maybe a typo for 104 or 122 ?.

Definitely not a typo, it was indeed 124!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Definitely not a typo, it was indeed 124!

Well well, a picture speaks a thousand words. the last 22 of GA 720s must be on their way.

(Unless the typo is on the front of the train !.)

 

[Pinza48]

Well well, a picture speaks a thousand words. the last 22 of GA 720s must be on their way.

(Unless the typo is on the front of the train !.)

If reading comments from other members upto 720.131 part or whole units have been seen at Derby recently

 

[Peter Sarf]

If reading comments from other members upto 720.131 part or whole units have been seen at Derby recently

Thanks for that info. I have missed that, thought I was up to speed on this thread . That indicates to me that any lead times for acquiring the extra 22 pairs of cabs and other equipment has passed. TBH I cannot recall how far back in the past Greater Anglia altered the order for 22 10-car 720s to 44 5-car 720s thus requiring Bombardier/Alstom to get parts and materials for 22 pairs of cabs etc ?.

 

[St. Paddy]

Thanks for that info. I have missed that, thought I was up to speed on this thread . That indicates to me that any lead times for acquiring the extra 22 pairs of cabs and other equipment has passed. TBH I cannot recall how far back in the past Greater Anglia altered the order for 22 10-car 720s to 44 5-car 720s thus requiring Bombardier/Alstom to get parts and materials for 22 pairs of cabs etc ?.

Don’t forget they have also built an extra 12 cabs and associated equipment already for the C2C units so your point may be a bit moot.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Don’t forget they have also built an extra 12 cabs and associated equipment already for the C2C units so your point may be a bit moot.

Those for c2c have all/mostly been used up. I think the c2c 720/6s were ordered long before GA changed their order ?.