Greater Anglia - evidence of spoiled ticket?

[klewer]

Wonder if anyone has any advice to give here.

I was on a delayed (30 mins plus) GA train on the 25th June so put a claim in via their Delay Repay website. As part of the process I uploaded a picture of the ticket which was an Off Peak day return.

Yesterday I received an email requesting a picture of the spoiled ticket.

“We have not been able to approve your claim as your ticket has not been spoiled. As per the Delay Repay scheme, we ask that tickets are cut in half or defaced to prevent them from being again”

The trouble is I don’t have this ticket any more - I assumed that once the image was uploaded then that was all they needed, so have binned it.

To me, this feels like a stalling tactic as opposed to anything else - the ticket (by way of having the expiry date in large font) was already spoiled! Are they within their rights to ask for this?

Thanks in advance for any advice here before I go back to them.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Wonder if anyone has any advice to give here.

I was on a delayed (30 mins plus) GA train on the 25th June so put a claim in via their Delay Repay website. As part of the process I uploaded a picture of the ticket which was an Off Peak day return.

Yesterday I received an email requesting a picture of the spoiled ticket.

“We have not been able to approve your claim as your ticket has not been spoiled. As per the Delay Repay scheme, we ask that tickets are cut in half or defaced to prevent them from being again”

The trouble is I don’t have this ticket any more - I assumed that once the image was uploaded then that was all they needed, so have binned it.

To me, this feels like a stalling tactic as opposed to anything else - the ticket (by way of having the expiry date in large font) was already spoiled! Are they within their rights to ask for this?

Thanks in advance for any advice here before I go back to them.

If your delay was less than 1 hour (but 30 minutes or more) then you are reliant on whatever terms GA's Passenger's Charter sets out to the applicability of Delay Repay to such delays - as the automatic (minimum) right to compensation, in line with Condition 33 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT), only kicks in after a delay of 1 hour or more.

However, their Passengers' Charter contains no reference to their assertion that claims require that you deface your ticket. I can therefore see no justification for them demanding this when claiming, or, resultantly, for them to refuse claims where the passenger has not defaced the ticket. The fact that the Passengers' Charter does not mention this requirement means that I do not think they can reasonably impose it post-purchase, as the Passengers' Charter is a material part of the contract, being referenced by the NRCoT as where the details of each train company's delay compensation policy is detailed.

There is a discussion ongoing on various other threads about whether or not Delay Repay is legally enforceable if the train company refuse to pay out whilst you are under the NRCoT 33 minimum threshold of an hour. I would argue that it is - and that this is demonstrated by the TOCs' franchise obligations to pay Delay Repay, as well as a number of other factors.

Please do go ahead and appeal their entirely unjustified decision internally. If this is not successful, you may wish to escalate the matter to the MD or their secretary. Alternatively, there is also the option of Transport Focus (though they very frequently simply agree with what the TOC say, regardless of how wrong it is, because they are a mediator and not an ombudsman). And of course there is also the final legal resort of either making a (partial) charge-back on your card (if you used a card to buy the ticket), or of taking legal action against GA.

 

[30907]

Wonder if anyone has any advice to give here.

I was on a delayed (30 mins plus) GA train on the 25th June so put a claim in via their Delay Repay website. As part of the process I uploaded a picture of the ticket which was an Off Peak day return.

Yesterday I received an email requesting a picture of the spoiled ticket.

“We have not been able to approve your claim as your ticket has not been spoiled. As per the Delay Repay scheme, we ask that tickets are cut in half or defaced to prevent them from being again”

The trouble is I don’t have this ticket any more - I assumed that once the image was uploaded then that was all they needed, so have binned it.

To me, this feels like a stalling tactic as opposed to anything else - the ticket (by way of having the expiry date in large font) was already spoiled! Are they within their rights to ask for this?

Thanks in advance for any advice here before I go back to them.

GA have a point - you could in principle have used the ticket again before it expired, even on a Day Return fare. The expiry date is not in itself relevant.

But then you could have done that THEN cut it in half (or posted it with the PDF claim form) - it might not have been checked on either occasion.

Does the online system mention defacing the ticket?

 

[Haywain]

GA have a point - you could in principle have used the ticket again before it expired, even on a Day Return fare. The expiry date is not in itself relevant.

This could have been done any number of time before claiming within the 28 day time limit, so the requirement is utterly ridiculous.

 

[klewer]

GA have a point - you could in principle have used the ticket again before it expired, even on a Day Return fare. The expiry date is not in itself relevant.

It’s actually not relevant at all, GA require you to enter the ticket number as part of making the claim. If they are trying to avoid multiple claims against one ticket they could look up the information themselves.

Regardless of this, the Delay Repay team should have no interest in how many times a ticket has been used - they should concentrate on dealing with claims.

 

[Haywain]

GA require you to enter the ticket number as part of making the claim. If they are trying to avoid multiple claims against one ticket they could look up the information themselves.

Ticket numbers are not unique. They are serial numbers for issue from each of many thousands of ticket machines.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Ticket numbers are not unique. They are serial numbers for issue from each of many thousands of ticket machines.

They usually require both parts of the ticket number - the repeating 5 digit one as well as the longer number identifying the point of issue. It would be very, very unlikely for two tickets for the same route, with the same Railcard discount (or not), to have the same short and long numbers!

 

[Haywain]

They usually require both parts of the ticket number - the repeating 5 digit one as well as the longer number identifying the point of issue. It would be very, very unlikely for two tickets for the same route, with the same Railcard discount (or not), to have the same short and long numbers!

GTR simply ask for the ticket number (twice, which I found strange). If they want the issuing NLC, machine number and window number they should ask for them, although they will probably find it easier to look at the photo of the ticket as they should assume that most people, unlike me, wouldn't have the faintest idea what they are talking about!

 

[njr001]

Has the OP retained the original image he up loaded? With a little creative image manipulation it would easy to modify the ticket so that appeared to have been cut in half.
it does seem strange to have a requirement to submit a defaced ticket given how easily image manipulation can be carried out.

 

[Starmill]

Has the OP retained the original image he up loaded? With a little creative image manipulation it would easy to modify the ticket so that appeared to have been cut in half.
it does seem strange to have a requirement to submit a defaced ticket given how easily image manipulation can be carried out.

Yet another good reason, in addition to the one highlighted by Haywain, that this requirement is a nonsense.

West Midlands Trains asked me for this as well I seem to recall. I didn't cut the ticket in half (it was an Anytime Day Return and I was claiming the day after anyway - so the ticket had expired). They paid my claim but sent me a message saying that the money was a goodwill gesture as I had not complied with the requirements of their compensation scheme so they weren't obliged to pay.

Someone with more time than I could that thank them for their ex gratia payment and then pursue them for the balance of the compensation payment, on the basis that all of the legally enforceable requirements of their compensation scheme had actually been met.

 

[furlong]

Same problem as some other threads really - it's about time the DfT (no doubt delegated to RDG as usual) created some standard enforceable guidelines for Delay Repay and published them so everyone knows where they stand. At the moment it seems each TOC is getting away with making up its own set of rules. The TOCs should do this anyway before an Ombudsman arrives and starts to set precedents and fill in the gaps for them.

 

[methethpropbut]

Strange, I've definitely been able to claim from GA with a picture of a fully intact ticket, albeit with a delay of 1 hour. I'd have thought it'd make more sense for them to just pay out anyway, rather than reject it, get the defaced picture and then process it again.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Strange, I've definitely been able to claim from GA with a picture of a fully intact ticket, albeit with a delay of 1 hour. I'd have thought it'd make more sense for them to just pay out anyway, rather than reject it, get the defaced picture and then process it again.

They hope you wont bother. It is an Abellio thing now, all their companies want the ticket cut in two for unfathomable reasons

 

[vinnym70]

I've claimed from AGA many times with an annual paper season (gold card) and now subsequently with a smart card. Obviously neither of these can be defaced so I'm not really sure what their point here is?

One of my regular concerns with smart card claims is that I never actually operate a barrier with my smart card so there's always potential for AGA to believe I didn't travel when I said I did although that's never been an issue - but I suspect it to be at some point

Surely there's an obvious risk that if a ticket is ripped/defaced for the purpose of submission of a delay repay claims AGA could dishonour it owing to the defacement obscuring something they feel important for validating the claim?

This feels a very random approach.

 

[Freddie43]

I got so fed up with this repeated demand for the scanned ticket to be spoiled that I rang GA up (they are in Glasgow). It took 30 minutes for my call to be answered.

I said that nowhere on the delay repay form or their website did it state the ticket had to be spoiled.

I challenged them to find it. After 5 minutes they had to admit that wasn't there but produced some other crazy reason for doing it.

I even posted the unspoiled ticket to them but they never acknowledged receipt or repaid.

So much for their MD Jamie Burles saying he wants to deliver 'great service'. Quite simply they are doing everything possible to avoid repaying for the many delays on the wretched ancient trains they run on the Norwich to London line. I currently have three delay repays outstanding, with no sign of payment coming.

'Great service indeed!

Does anyone have a UK address for GA's MD?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I got so fed up with this repeated demand for the scanned ticket to be spoiled that I rang GA up (they are in Glasgow). It took 30 minutes for my call to be answered.

I said that nowhere on the delay repay form or their website did it state the ticket had to be spoiled.

I challenged them to find it. After 5 minutes they had to admit that wasn't there but produced some other crazy reason for doing it.

I even posted the unspoiled ticket to them but they never acknowledged receipt or repaid.

So much for their MD Jamie Burles saying he wants to deliver 'great service'. Quite simply they are doing everything possible to avoid repaying for the many delays on the wretched ancient trains they run on the Norwich to London line. I currently have three delay repays outstanding, with no sign of payment coming.

'Great service indeed!

Does anyone have a UK address for GA's MD?

How much Delay Repay is outstanding?

If it is anything more than a token amount I would be taking this quite seriously. I'm not sure contacting the CEO (if it is even possible to get their address) will help much though.

 

[Esker-pades]

I was delayed by ScotRail for 36 minutes recently. I held an advance ticket, which specified the train that I had to be on. The guard didn't deface my ticket at any point (he just looked at it to check).
When ScotRail asked for a defaced ticket, I assumed that meant that I had to deface it. I put a big tick over the ticket and wrote the headcode of the train. I'm not entirely sure if this was the right thing to do, but ScotRail paid out (only £2.10, but I had made my point).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I even posted the unspoiled ticket to them but they never acknowledged receipt or repaid.

If you still had the ticket, why didn't you just do as they asked? LNR/WMT ask for this, it takes half a second to rip it in half.

The reason is so you don't claim a refund on it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

A non defaced ticket can be used again, I have people coming in on a regular basis and asking if there ticket can still be used I'm shown a non defaced return half of a SVR usually I accept their story that it hasn't been used as I have no way of disproving it. However I occasionally get them come straight in the booking office after they alight from their return journey and ask!

I've no doubt that a handful of journeys a week are being made on re used non defaced tickets from/ to my station.