Group seeking to purchase a class 317 to convert to a 210 DEMU.

[bspahh]

The Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company is a crowd funding campaign to save a class 317 to convert into a class 210 DEMU. Rail Magazine says they are looking to raise £35k. https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/class210demu says its £20k.

 

[D365]

The Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company is a crowd funding campaign to save a class 317 to convert into a class 210 DEMU. Rail Magazine says they are looking to raise £35k. https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/class210demu says its £20k.

I wish them all the best, but I fear for them a bit. The Class 769 had Porterbrook and Brush behind it, and that took years to get right. I dread to think how much work it will take to rip a 317 apart and weld it back together, with engines no less.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I wish them all the best, but I fear for them a bit. The Class 769 had Porterbrook and Brush behind it, and that took years to get right. I dread to think how much work it will take to rip a 317 apart and weld it back together, with engines no less.

I think it's one carriage they need off the 317 complete 210 003; they have the rest already?

 

[43096]

I wish them all the best, but I fear for them a bit. The Class 769 had Porterbrook and Brush behind it, and that took years to get right. I dread to think how much work it will take to rip a 317 apart and weld it back together, with engines no less.

They are dreaming. Where are they putting the engine, bearing in mind that the motor car in the originals was significantly different to accept the weight.

 

[JonathanH]

I think it's one carriage they need to off the 317 complete 210 003; they have the rest already?

They need a whole 317. What is the rest? I don't think they are going to get their hands on the 210 coach at the East Kent Railway.

A long way to go to £20,000 or £35,000 starting from the current pledges of £180.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They need a whole 317. What is the rest? I don't think they are going to get their hands on the 210 coach at the East Kent Railway.

A long way to go to £20,000 or £35,000 starting from the current pledges of £180.

On 29th March they stated they already have enough funds to get the one vehicle they still needed to complete the 210 replica; they are trying to save additional class 317 vehicles - presumably as spares, which does seem a valid reason. The appeal appears to be for these additional vehicles.

https://twitter.com/003_210/status/1641168426310795266?s=20

We have enough money in the kitty to purchase the TCO the Project 210 needs, if you can help top up the funds so that we can save more Class 317 vehicles we would be very grateful.

 

[Train Maniac]

I mean, it answers the question about preserving EMU's at least.... Haha

As has been mentioned. I think part of the original unit is currently at Shepherdswell, so not horrifically pie in the sky. Wish them the best of luck

 

[315801]

I look forward to following the progress of a class 210 project, is there a separate thread for this please.

In respect of preservation of EMU's I have always wanted to preserve a merseyrail class 508 as a 4 coach unit but got highly ridiculed for even having the idea but to anybody out there who is part of a preservation society I wish you well in your efforts, at least you will be able to do something I have wanted to do since I heard about the merseyrail unit withdrawal but thats a topic for another thread before I get a 3rd reprimand.

 

[Cowley]

On 29th March they stated they already have enough funds to get the one vehicle they still needed to complete the 210 replica; they are trying to save additional class 317 vehicles - presumably as spares, which does seem a valid reason. The appeal appears to be for these additional vehicles.

https://twitter.com/003_210/status/1641168426310795266?s=20



View attachment 132846

Unfortunately it’s not possible to quote much here. But it does say this:

We have enough money in the kitty to purchase the TCO the Project 210 needs, if you can help top up the funds so that we can save more Class 317 vehicles we would be very grateful.

 

[JonathanH]

I dont think it is as positive as that twitter post suggests. The latest Facebook thread suggests that their hope to procure a trailer coach from a 317 has failed.

Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Ltd

Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company Ltd. 2,117 likes · 3 talking about this. News and stories from the reborn Birmingham Railway Carriage & Wagon Company.

www.facebook.com

With great saddness I have to announce that barring a miracle we will only be able to build a 3 car Class 210 inner suburban set. For reasons we aren't aware of our rather frustrating 4 year effort to secure a TCO has failed. Yesterday Angel Trains advised that all remaining Class 317's have been sold or consigned for scrap with no coaches available to us. All efforts will now be directed to securing a home for the vehicles we have been offered to get the job done.

 

[315801]

Would a coach from a class 319, 320, 321 or 322 unit be correct to fill the gap of the missing 317 coach, after all they were all built to the same design weren't they

 

[Phil Scott]

Wouldn't a trailer from a 455/8 be similar in profile to a 317 trailer?

 

[JonathanH]

Wouldn't a trailer from a 455/8 be similar in profile to a 317 trailer?

It won't have the right seats to recreate a 210 though.

 

[Phil Scott]

There's also a trailer from 317345 in an undustrial park near Reading

Perhaps strip the seats from a 317 trailer at the scrap yard and fit them to something else

 

[D365]

Period-accurate seats surely should be the least of their worries.

 

[43096]

Period-accurate seats surely should be the least of their worries.

Indeed. I'd suggest working out how to install a fairly sizeable diesel engine into a vehicle that wasn't designed to take one ought to be the priority!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Any of the Mk3 based units would yield similar trailers. If it's a driving trailer, the earlier builds would need less work done to them to get the correct profile at the cab top.

The 317s would have been the first choice because the 210s ( if I remember right ) had the small metal vents above the windows like the first batch of 317s did - again, not impossible to replicate but clearly easier if you can get them straight off.

 

[Magdalia]

The 317s would have been the first choice because the 210s ( if I remember right ) had the small metal vents above the windows like the first batch of 317s did

When new the Bedpan class 317s did not have any window ventilation at all.

The metal hopper vents were a modification after passenger complaints about the trains being too hot on sunny summer days. This was particularly a problem with units that had sat in the carriage sidings between the peaks, where the ventilation system was inadequate for dispersing the heat resulting from solar gain.

It won't have the right seats to recreate a 210 though.

A class 317 car would still be missing various original features of the seating and the rubber mounting strips that ran the length of each car.

 

[Bertie the bus]

BRCW are serial crowd funders who achieve nothing. They are one of two things and neither of those things are serious preservationists. Fortunately, despite publicity in RAIL and this thread, most people appear to have realised this as they have raised a total of nothing in the last 2 weeks.

 

[Tony2]

Would be even better to get car 67400 from class 455 unit 5912 when that becomes redundant- as that was an original class 210 trailer. It has the window vents. Ex class 210 trailer 67301 still exists as well in class 455 unit 5913.

 

[JonathanH]

Would be even better to get car 67400 from class 455 unit 5912 when that becomes redundant- as that was an original class 210 trailer. It has the window vents.

67400 doesn't have the 210 window vents. It has conventional Mark 3 windows.

 

[eldomtom2]

In the present circumstances, working out how to convert EMUs to battery operation in a sympathetic manner would be a better use of time...

 

[MP33]

Would be cheaper and easier to electrify a short heritage railway to run it as it is at present?

 

[JonathanH]

Would be cheaper and easier to electrify a short heritage railway to run it as it is at present?

I'm not sure that having a heritage railway running 25kV electrification is a good idea, even if it was a realistic prospect.

 

[12LDA28C]

Would be cheaper and easier to electrify a short heritage railway to run it as it is at present?

Absolutely zero chance of that.

 

[SargeNpton]

Why on earth try to preserve an example of a (largely) failed experiment that is now a mere footnote in the history of the railways?

Outside of a few enthusiasts there would be little interest in it being run on a heritage railway so it would more than likely end up being stored in a siding where the elements would soon take their toll.

 

[Alanko]

I worry about the folk bunging money at this project. Heritage railways are facing various existential threats, but set up a crowd funder for some project like this, which will never deliver anything, and folk cough up £50 on the spot.

 

[JonathanH]

Why on earth try to preserve an example of a (largely) failed experiment that is now a mere footnote in the history of the railways?

The class 317 was a highly successful part of the railway, as indeed was the 319.

Recreating a 210 would arguably keep a 317 alive in a manner that allows the unit to represent that era of outer suburban travel, in a way that it can't be kept alive as a static exhibit.

Similarly preserving a 769 would do the same for the 319 fleet.

That said, I am not sure where the repeat custom would come from after the novelty value wore off.

I worry about the folk bunging money at this project.

Has anyone actually bunged money at this project?

I note that people bunging money at heritage railways may just be paying staff wages, debt and energy bills, which are all unfortunately necessities to keep the operational side of the railway functioning, but have no magic about them.

 

[43096]

Has anyone actually bunged money at this project?

The fund raising page linked to up thread suggests they have raised £180 so far, so doesn’t look like many people are bunging money at it so far.

Frankly, this is one of those projects that needs to be put out if its misery - it is never going to succeed.

 

[birchesgreen]

I believe people should be free to donate their money to whatever aspect of preservation they like, if folks don't like a project there are plenty of others.