GTR Enhanced Industry Compensation

[Hadders]

A family member travels from Enfield Chase to Moorgate using a Enfield Chse/Town - London Terminals Annual Season Ticket.

GTR's enhanced industry compensation eligibility checker suggests that this ticket is not eligible for the Enhanced Industry Compensation:

https://railcompensation.thameslinkrailway.com/check-eligibility

Season tickets between Enfield Chase and Moorgate are issued from Enfield Chse/Town to London Terminals. Normal single and return tickets are issued specifically from Enfield Chase and putting Enfield Chase to London Terminals into the eligibility checker says that it qualifies.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[Be3G]

At a guess, it's a deliberate decision of GTR's in consideration of the fact that anyone owning a Chase/Town ticket had alternative services available from Enfield Town (even though it's slower during peak hours, and only every 30 mins off-peak).

 

[Hadders]

That cannot be acceptable though. Are GTR really saying that someone travelling from Gordon Hill or Grange Park to Moorgate qualifies (the stations either side of Enfield Chase) but someone from Enfield Chase doesn't because there's a service from Enfield Town to Liverpool Street that can be used with the same ticket?

 

[Starmill]

I'm struggling with this.

...
putting Enfield Chase to London Terminals into the eligibility checker says that it qualifies.

This implies that such claims are valid under the scheme.

Perhaps simply submit the claim? I suspect it will simply be paid?

Is the address of your relative closer to Enfield Chase station than it is to Enfield Town?

 

[Hadders]

I'm struggling with this.

This implies that such claims are valid under the scheme.

Perhaps simply submit the claim? I suspect it will simply be paid?

Is the address of your relative closer to Enfield Chase station than it is to Enfield Town?

My relative is equidistant between the two stations but uses Chase due to working near Moorgate. GTR have paid plenty of Delay Repay claims should things get awkward.

 

[Starmill]

My relative is equidistant between the two stations but uses Chase due to working near Moorgate. GTR have paid plenty of Delay Repay claims should things get awkward.

I see. I would press ahead with it and if they are happy to do so, they can offer the address of their work building near Moorgate (hopefully nearner to Moorgate than Liverpool Street!) in support of their claim should questions be asked.

 

[Hadders]

An update. GTR have rejected the claim stating that there is insufficient evidence to say they are a regular Great Northern customer.

This is typical GTR and totally unacceptable if they are treating Enfield Chase season ticket holders in this way.

 

[Starmill]

Huh! Great.

Perhaps your relative could keep a travel diary for the next few weeks. Do they have tracking on their phone? That could be submitted too.

Frankly though if their office is close by Moorgate then there's no excuse here.

 

[Muzer]

Hah, if a TOC told me there was insufficient evidence I was their customer, I'd point them to my Railmiles page

 

[Wallsendmag]

Wouldn't the history of delay repay claims help the claim?

 

[Hadders]

Wouldn't the history of delay repay claims help the claim?

You'd have thought so but this is GTR we're talking about...

I've suggested they email GTR stating:

- Their regular commute is from Enfield Chase to Moorgate
- This can be referenced by numerous Delay Repay Claims since the timetable change
- They hold an Annual Season ticket purchased through their employers season ticket loan scheme to make this journey
- Season tickets between Enfield Chase and Moorgate are issued as Enfield Chase/Town to London Terminals. It is not possible to purchase a season ticket specifically from Enfield Chase to Moorgate or Enfield Chase to London Terminals.

I'm hoping this is cock-up rather than conspiracy but if GTR still refuse to budget then it'll need to be escalated to London Travelwatch.

On a related issue GTR have said they will accept claims from regular travellers who aren't season ticket holders with the scheme expected to open on 30th November. This is good news for me as I travel at least 3 times a week but not often enough to justify a season ticket. They say that tickets or other proof of travel will need to be submitted. I wonder how many people will still have proof of travel from May in November? Thankfully I anticipated the shambles and I've not let a barrier take a single ticket off me since the timetable change but I suspect I'm in a tiny minority.

 

[Starmill]

I guess they will accept booking confirmation emails or reference numbers in addition to original tickets? Even this does not cover most people though, so I would say they must accept bank statements which show purchases. I suspect those who paid cash and had their tickets retained in the gates at the end of their journey will be told simply hard luck.

 

[maniacmartin]

I hold a season from Tattenham Corner to London Terminals because its the same price as from Purley so I thought why not get the extra validity. 95% of my journeys are between Purley and London Bridge on Thameslink services. However as my ticket is from Tattenham Corner, its considered a "Southern" route for the enhanced compensation, not a "Thameslink" one, I get nothing.

My partner on the other hand has a Zones 1-6 Travelcard and uses it extensively on tube and National Rail throughout London zones every day travelling to various places for work. He does qualify as he touches in and out every weekday at Purley, and sometimes at London Bridge NR en route.

Only on GTR could this inconsistency be the case!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

In my view a refusal to pay out in these circumstances would be very questionable. The fact that they are agreeing to additional compensation generally, indicates that they accept they have not provided the service with reasonable care and skill. I would not want to be the GTR lawyer defending a Court claim made by a passenger who had their informal internal claim rejected on spurious grounds as above.

 

[bramling]

A family member travels from Enfield Chase to Moorgate using a Enfield Chse/Town - London Terminals Annual Season Ticket.

GTR's enhanced industry compensation eligibility checker suggests that this ticket is not eligible for the Enhanced Industry Compensation:

https://railcompensation.thameslinkrailway.com/check-eligibility

Season tickets between Enfield Chase and Moorgate are issued from Enfield Chse/Town to London Terminals. Normal single and return tickets are issued specifically from Enfield Chase and putting Enfield Chase to London Terminals into the eligibility checker says that it qualifies.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Sounds ridiculous, almost smacks of desperation in fact.

The fact that Enfield is fortunate enough to have an alternative service is irrelevant in my opinion. The basic reality is the industry has failed to fulfill its obligations to provide a service.

 

[Hadders]

A further update from GTR following the email query sent after the first rejection.

I guess London Travelwatch comes next unless anyone has any further suggestions. I simply cannot believe they cannot compensate season ticket holders from Enfield Chase.

Thank you for contacting the Additional Compensation Scheme.

I have personally looked into your claim however, unfortunately, due to the stations listed on your ticket we cannot offer you compensation. I'm sorry that this might not be the news you wish to hear but we have a set scheme put in place which was agreed upon with the Department for Transport.

You can check this for yourself using the eligibility checker which I will link below.
https://railcompensation.thameslinkrailway.com/check-eligibility

We understand you may travel from different stations than the ones showing on your ticket, however, we can only compensate for the stations printed on your ticket.

Unfortunately, as the Additional Compensation team, we do not have access to delay repay records so we cannot check your claims.

If you remain unsatisfied with the information in our responses Transport Focus and London TravelWatch provide an appeal service for rail passengers. Further details about how to complain can be found at:

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/complaints/appealing_london_travelwatch

and

http://www.transportfocus.org.uk/advice-and-complaints/rail-complaints/

If you require any further assistance do not hesitate to email back or alternatively, call us on 0345 026 4700.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Well I don't know if London Travelwatch are anything like Transport Focus as I've never had the dubious pleasure of engaging with them. But if they are anything like Transport Focus it's almost a waste of time engaging with them.

As I have said before, if this step is unsuccessful or you decide not to bother, in my view there would be fairly reasonable grounds to take pursue this legally. By offering a general compensation package - and not offering compensation on a case-by-case basis - they are effectively admitting that their service was not provided with reasonable care and skill.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 prescribes that in such a situation, a refund, either partial or full, is due, with the level of refund being decided by the level of 'incompetence' with which the service is provided, effectively.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone know what criteria GTR are able to use to reject claims?

For example, GTR have reduced the opening hours of some of their ticket offices, thus deterring the use of these ticket offices.

If a regular customer, who lives near a GTR operated station, is effectively forced to buy a Travelcard Season at their destination (say this is operated by one of Chiltern, SWR, Greater Anglia etc), is GTR able to use that against the customer in an attempt to demonstrate the customer is somehow not 'primarily' travelling with GTR, even though in fact they use GTR daily?

 

[717001]

A further update from GTR following the email query sent after the first rejection.

I guess London Travelwatch comes next unless anyone has any further suggestions. I simply cannot believe they cannot compensate season ticket holders from Enfield Chase.

1. The checker says that Enfield Chase to Moorgate qualifies.
2. NRE season ticket calculator only offers "Enfield Chase or Enfield Town to London Terminals" as an option if a search is done for Enfield Chase to Moorgate.
3. It's not traveling "from different stations than the ones showing on your ticket" as stated in the reply.
4. You've got the Delay Repay evidence.

So it is hard to see how they can justify rejection - might be worth trying helpline again but, otherwise, definitely looks worth contacting London TravelWatch.

 

[Hadders]

The journey was entered as Enfield Chase to Moorgate (as their system rejects Enfield Chase/Town). Obviously the copy of the ticket submitted says ‘Enfield Chase/Town to London Terminals’.

They’ve had 2 opportunities, the original submission and the email query as a result of the initial rejection. They are now saying the next stage is to take it to London Travelwatch which is what will happen.

 

[Hadders]

A response from London Travelwatch has now been received. Most unsatisfactory and even contradicts itself.

Looks like it's the DfT and MP next.

Thank you for contacting London TravelWatch.

We have received, and are continuing to receive, a large number of contacts from passengers who are unhappy with the amount of compensation offered or refusal of compensation by Thameslink for the delays and cancellations experienced by passengers between 20 May and 28 July.

The London TravelWatch casework team is evaluating each case received on its own merit but, due to the high number of contacts, are sending this standard response to all passengers whom we are unable to help with their compensation claim.

However, the issues that have been outlined in your correspondence are being raised by our policy team colleagues in their on going discussions with the Department for Transport and with Thameslink as they are a matter of general policy.

The frequently asked questions below have been written in response to the questions raised with London TravelWatch.

Who set the eligibility criteria including stations, routes and the compensation levels?
These were set by the Department for Transport in conjunction with and using data from Thameslink as the train operator. If you feel that the eligibility criteria used is unreasonable, you should first contact the Department for Transport and copy in your Member of Parliament.

Why can’t London TravelWatch change the criteria?
London TravelWatch cannot override the criteria set by a government department. The terms are inflexible to ensure that all passengers who have tickets to travel from the same station (that is printed on their tickets) are treated equally.

I don’t travel from the station(s) detailed on my ticket and this has affected any compensation I think I am due?
The evidence required to claim compensation is the ticket used to travel. Compensation will only be paid against the information on the ticket and not the journey usually taken.

How can I check if the calculation on my ticket is correct?
Contact the Thameslink dedicated compensation team via email [email protected] or call 0345 026 4700.

Can I complain to the rail ombudsman?
There is currently no ombudsman for the rail industry.

London TravelWatch recommends that passengers claim for all compensation they are due.
Delay repay claims can be made at www.thameslinkrailway.com/delayrepay and season tickets holders should claim the standard enhanced compensation atwww.thameslinkrailway.com/help-and-support/journey-problems/delay-repay/enhanced-compensation

Yours sincerely

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

A response from London Travelwatch has now been received. Most unsatisfactory and even contradicts itself.

Looks like it's the DfT and MP next.

So, they're a wet paper bag just like Transport Focus. Who'dve thunk it.... yawn.

Let's see if your followups deliver any results. If not, I'm sure we're happy to help with taking it further.

 

[infobleep]

A response from London Travelwatch has now been received. Most unsatisfactory and even contradicts itself.

Looks like it's the DfT and MP next.

So Travelwatch say they don't know the answer so are claying things with Thameslink and the DfT. How about they have a lost of people with queries and when they have finished the discussion, they contact people with the response.

 

[RichardN]

The letter from travelwatch is interesting. I bought a Crawley AAA Haywards Heath <-> London Zones 2-6 weekly seasons for those periods.

London TravelWatch cannot override the criteria set by a government department. The terms are inflexible to ensure that all passengers who have tickets to travel from the same station (that is printed on their tickets) are treated equally.
The evidence required to claim compensation is the ticket used to travel. Compensation will only be paid against the information on the ticket and not the journey usually taken.
London TravelWatch recommends that passengers claim for all compensation they are due.

Those statements seem to say

(a) If I claim, I'll succeed.
(b) though not sure if it is 1 week or 4 depending on Crawley (1st station mentioned on ticket) or Haywards Heath. (station I use most often)

However morally it is a bit stinky as as I don't rarely have cause to catch a Thameslink train as opposed to Southern.

 

[Hadders]

An update on this. GTR finally paid out, seems the scheme was amended to include tickets from ‘Enfield Chase/Town’ to ‘London Terminals’ as a result of many complaints and the local MP getting involved.

No idea if GTR backtracked through the claims they initially rejected though, or whether they contacted season ticket holders on their database holding with tickets to/from ‘Enfield Chase/Town’ telling them to apply.