GTR tell passengers to tweet the RMT their disgust

[Antman]

Weren't you the one claiming you couldn't see anything wrong with the posters? Yet it's proven to have gone down very badly with Joe public. Shows you judgment is very bad in these matters!

Really? In what way have they gone down badly will Joe public? There was a not dissimilar advert from southern today.

 

[matt_world2004]

Considering the biggest problem has been unofficial industrial action, Why the hell were southern trying to sour the relationship with their employees still further.

 

[Carlisle]

Weren't you the one claiming you couldn't see anything wrong with the posters? Yet it's proven to have gone down very badly with Joe public. Shows you judgment is very bad in these matters!

Ok these posters have backfired, but the reality that TOCs right now are unable to change virtually anything re the roll of their guards without almost instantly triggering a possibly crippling campaign of industrial action still needs to be communicated clearly for the public to make up their own minds where they stand

 

[Dave1987]

Really? In what way have they gone down badly will Joe public? There was a not dissimilar advert from southern today.

Have you not seen the tirade it caused on Twitter? Or were you selective in what you read. The backlash made the national news with both the Beeb and ITV. The fact they have ditched the poster campaign almost immediately says just how badly it's gone down with the majority.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ok these posters have backfired, but the reality that TOCs right now are unable to change virtually anything re the roll of their guards without almost instantly triggering a possibly crippling campaign of industrial action still needs to be communicated clearly for the public to make up their own minds where they stand

ScotRail have done it successfully. Southern could have had this all sorted if they weren't bound by what the DFT and Wilkinson is telling them to do. The RMT have said they are willing to discuss operation of the doors if jobs are guaranteed long term and every train runs with two staff on board.

 

[bb21]

until they realise it doubles the chances of their train being cancelled because of staff being unavailable.

It won't actually. Cancellations due to guard-related issues under normal circumstances comprise a tiny percentage of all cancellations, whichever TOC you look at.

Far more likely in any TOC for cancellations to occur due to driver-related issues, fleet issues, ill passenger, passenger disorder, passcom being pulled, trespass, miscellaneous railway crime, or most other causes I can think of.

Of course I suspect that you meant it metaphorically rather than an exact figure, but I thought it would still be good to clarify it.

Perhaps the general public is starting to wake up the rubbish put out by successive right-leaning governments and their funders in the private sector?

Perhaps not all those throwing their weight behind Jeremy Corbyn and his socially aware comrades are 'naive students' after all?

You really leave me wondering how you managed to draw that conclusion.

 

[Chrisgr31]

ScotRail have done it successfully. Southern could have had this all sorted if they weren't bound by what the DFT and Wilkinson is telling them to do. The RMT have said they are willing to discuss operation of the doors if jobs are guaranteed long term and every train runs with two staff on board.

The bit you have forgotten is that Southern, sorry the DFT don't want 2 members of staff on board, certainly not in the long term. They therefore want the driver opening and closing the doors with no involvement from any other onboard crew.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It won't actually. Cancellations due to guard-related issues under normal circumstances comprise a tiny percentage of all cancellations, whichever TOC you look at.

Far more likely in any TOC for cancellations to occur due to driver-related issues, fleet issues, ill passenger, passenger disorder, passcom being pulled, trespass, miscellaneous railway crime, or most other causes I can think of.

Of course I suspect that you meant it metaphorically rather than an exact figure, but I thought it would still be good to clarify

Is there any data public ally available which shows the causes of cancellations and delays on Southern. I was onlywondering last night when my train was cancelled again due to train failure how many cancellations were actually caused by non-presence of guards.

 

[Antman]

Have you not seen the tirade it caused on Twitter? Or were you selective in what you read. The backlash made the national news with both the Beeb and ITV. The fact they have ditched the poster campaign almost immediately says just how badly it's gone down with the majority.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


ScotRail have done it successfully. Southern could have had this all sorted if they weren't bound by what the DFT and Wilkinson is telling them to do. The RMT have said they are willing to discuss operation of the doors if jobs are guaranteed long term and every train runs with two staff on board.

The vitriol towards Southern on twitter and elsewhere shouldn't lead to assumptions that passengers support the RMT, I think most people are equally miffed with both sides and don't really know or care whether there is a guard on the train or not.

I'm not necessarily taking Southerns side on this, I just don't see how the RMT have got a leg to stand on, a whole host of jobs have been lost over the years with the onset of technology and I just don't see how this is a special case.

 

[Paul180]

Just seen this article in my local newspaper website.

RMT union to make official complaint to Twitter over message asking commuters to 'strike back'

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/rmt-union-make-official-complaint-11979700

I am glad that they are doing it and hope for a positive outcome.

 

[tony6499]

I hear a Conductor has been assaulted as a result of the 'Strike Back' campaign, could be quite a court case now as an employer encouraging the public to attack and in this case physically attack their employees.

It could be the end for GTR whatever the support the Government is giving them, whoever dreamt up such a stupid advertising campaign should be named and shamed so they aren't employed in the railway industry again.

 

[JamesTT]

With regards to who paid for the advert, is there not a distinct possibility, it came out of the £20 million fund?

 

[AlterEgo]

Just seen this article in my local newspaper website.



http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/rmt-union-make-official-complaint-11979700

I am glad that they are doing it and hope for a positive outcome.

It is ridiculous by the RMT. It is not at all against the Twitter ToS to ask people to tweet to another account.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I hear a Conductor has been assaulted as a result of the 'Strike Back' campaign, could be quite a court case now as an employer encouraging the public to attack and in this case physically attack their employees.

It could be the end for GTR whatever the support the Government is giving them, whoever dreamt up such a stupid advertising campaign should be named and shamed so they aren't employed in the railway industry again.

How do we know it's as a result of the "Strike Back" campaign?

 

[tony6499]

It is ridiculous by the RMT. It is not at all against the Twitter ToS to ask people to tweet to another account.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How do we know it's as a result of the "Strike Back" campaign?

I guess that will be for the BTP and courts to decide won't it ?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

It is ridiculous by the RMT. It is not at all against the Twitter ToS to ask people to tweet to another account.

ah, but where is the line drawn between encouraging people to take to social media, and Bullying and harassment? Thats a very grey area socially, morally and legally.

How do we know it's as a result of the "Strike Back" campaign?

I am sure the truth will come out but if it is proven to be as a direct result of the campaign and not simply an assault that may have occurred as a result of the individual doing their job anyway (not even suggesting it makes it any more right or wrong, but guards get rather unfairly exposed to hostile situations in the course of their duties) -I know how bad that actually sounds and Im still trying to figure out how to word it better - Then this could potentially expose a whole can of worms for Southern

 

[JamesTT]

ah, but where is the line drawn between encouraging people to take to social media, and Bullying and harassment? Thats a very grey area socially, morally and legally.



I am sure the truth will come out but if it is proven to be as a direct result of the campaign and not simply an assault that may have occurred as a result of the individual doing their job anyway (not even suggesting it makes it any more right or wrong, but guards get rather unfairly exposed to hostile situations in the course of their duties) -I know how bad that actually sounds and Im still trying to figure out how to word it better - Then this could potentially expose a whole can of worms for Southern

Anyone know if a solicitor would encourage the assailant to claim that the media campaign encouraged them, as some sort of mitigating circumstance?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

the defence solicitor will use anything they can as mitigating circumstances if it means their client receives a lesser charge\sentence as a result. Thats why they are there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It is not at all against the Twitter ToS to ask people to tweet to another account.

Encouraging pile-ons is against the Twitter t&cs, as Milo Yiannopoulos found a couple of months ago...

 

[mirodo]

Twitter T&Cs state:

Harassment: You may not incite or engage in the targeted abuse or harassment of others. Some of the factors that we may consider when evaluating abusive behavior include:
if a primary purpose of the reported account is to harass or send abusive messages to others;
if the reported behavior is one-sided or includes threats;
if the reported account is inciting others to harass another account; and
if the reported account is sending harassing messages to an account from multiple accounts.

(My emphasis)

 

[AlterEgo]

if the reported account is inciting others to harass another account;

Asking your followers to tweet another person isn't harassment. If the RMT had asked Southern passengers to tweet Southern saying how they felt about the train service, it wouldn't be harassment.

 

[Fincra5]

In DOO land, and with stations staffed all day and night, there are people on the platform to assist with ramps. But it does mean asking for help and telling people where you're going to get off.

There are many wheelchair users on my line and there have never been guards in all my years of travelling.

It's rather more a problem at unmanned stations.

But its not as if its going to be like the LOROL setup with a member of staff at every station.

So how would a disabled person board a train at the many unmanned stations? (without booking 24/48hrs in advance - when they've not needed to do so until now)

 

[AlterEgo]

I guess that will be for the BTP and courts to decide won't it ?

Yep, and not us, the people who have precious little information.

 

[Antman]

I hear a Conductor has been assaulted as a result of the 'Strike Back' campaign, could be quite a court case now as an employer encouraging the public to attack and in this case physically attack their employees.

It could be the end for GTR whatever the support the Government is giving them, whoever dreamt up such a stupid advertising campaign should be named and shamed so they aren't employed in the railway industry again.

Oh come on, I've not seen anything from GTR encouraging passengers to assault their staff.

I witnessed an assault on a guard yesterday evening, but this one was on Southeastern! It was nothing serious and seemingly the guard does not wish to take further action but I gave him my contact details, sadly these things happen!

 

[AlterEgo]

Encouraging pile-ons is against the Twitter t&cs, as Milo Yiannopoulos found a couple of months ago...

He encouraged racist and sexist tweets to another user - he didn't ask them to say how they felt about a train strike!

Put it this way - if a charity asked you to tweet Number 10 saying how you felt about the homeless problem and the government's inaction on it, that wouldn't be harassment.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ah, but where is the line drawn between encouraging people to take to social media, and Bullying and harassment? Thats a very grey area socially, morally and legally.

It's not harassment to ask customers to say how they feel about something. It's not harassment if Fair Fares Now asked its following to tweet all the TOCs to say how they felt about a price rise.

 

[Fincra5]

Oh come on, I've not seen anything from GTR encouraging passengers to assault their staff.

I witnessed an assault on a guard yesterday evening, but this one was on Southeastern! It was nothing serious and seemingly the guard does not wish to take further action but I gave him my contact details, sadly these things happen!

"Lets Strike Back" ... Because the term "strike" hasn't be used for hitting?:roll:

It seems likely it is related especially when the posters started appearing on trains.

 

[AlterEgo]

"Lets Strike Back" ... Because the term "strike" hasn't be used for hitting?:roll:

It seems likely it is related especially when the posters started appearing on trains.

By that logic every time the RMT use the word "strike" they mean their members hitting other people.

Let's stop the hyperbole on this thread. It's making rail staff look hysterical, claiming Southern advocated an assault on one of their staff.

Lots of tweets supporting the RMT, but certainly not a "vast majority".

For balance, here's some criticism of the RMT from Twitter users over the last 24 hours (these are just ones that mention "RMT union"):

Linda ‏@Linda_a_Groom 11m11 minutes ago
@RMTunion I hope southern sack the guards for striking. The public can't be held to ransom there are no guards on the underground

Caroline Simpson ‏@CarolineSim10 2h2 hours ago
@RMTunion if not safe for drivers to operate doors why aren't they more concerned to take on responsibility?#SouthernBackOnTrack

Sonny Brown ‏@Sonnyjim321 2h2 hours ago
@QMotives @SouthernRailUK @RMTunion afraid I disagree and think it's safe. Guards should be retained and retrained in period to 2021.

Moj Taylor ‏@mojtaylor Oct 4
@itsnotaboutthe2 @RMTunion the public know guards are illegally striking by pulling strategic mass-sickies.Makes you look devious & uncaring

Michael Olliff ‏@molliff 3h3 hours ago
@RMTunion Action is destroying the lives of 1000s of commuters Time to get back to work & start putting customers first#SouthernBackOnTrack

Alex Graham ‏@alexgtwittor 11h11 hours agoEstepona, Spain
@RMTunion you take the **** out of everyday hard workers ... #go****yourself

Lisa Bailey ‏@lisa01403 11h11 hours ago
@RMTunion was you born in the 1800s?

mustang sally ‏@mustangsallyx 12h12 hours ago
Just sack the bloody @rmtunion staff working who are creating havoc on southern rail

Nadders ‏@nadd3rz 12h12 hours ago
@BBCSouthToday Diddum's, what a bunch of tossers @RMTunion are.

Job Search Bible ‏@JobSearchBible 13h13 hours ago
@DomMcGowan @RMTunion Yep, service is atrocious - no debate there. But that doesn't justify striking

Ronin_78 ‏@DomMcGowan 13h13 hours ago
@itsnotaboutthe2 @mojtaylor @RMTunion believes the whole sickness myth, how gullible

jake bambridge ‏@jake_bam 14h14 hours ago
@RMTunion commuted 2 long on southern. Guards do jack Never check tickets - 2 scared 1st class rammed w. dodgers who think it moral - ****ed

Flashhhhhhhhhhh ‏@fl4sh_0x0 14h14 hours ago
I on the other hand disagree with many people @RMTunion are selfish self serving scum! They strike and bring misery to passengers! #rmtunion

Daniel Malins ‏@DanielMalinsWP 15h15 hours ago
.@RMTunion is an appalling, self-serving organisation that is trying to justify its own existence at the expense of the general public.

Bruce Everiss ‏@Bruciebabe 16h16 hours ago
.@richardking0788 @RMTunion @SouthernRailUK Commuters pay many millions of pounds for Southern trade union staff who are not necessary.

Evil Passenger ‏@evil_passenger 15h15 hours ago
@RMTunion you stupid morons should just be chucked out the mix.

Bruce Everiss ‏@Bruciebabe 15h15 hours ago
@Whorulesme @richardking0788 @RMTunion @SouthernRailUK The unions interfere massively in the running of our train system.

Strict Opposition ‏@StrictOppositio 15h15 hours ago
@RMTunion When are you going to start adding value and stop squeezing every last bit of efficiency from train services?

GHA ‏@bluetarragon 16h16 hours ago
@RMTunion @SouthernRailUK People at work laugh that there are conductors on my line. They haven't had them for years and are still alive.

GHA ‏@bluetarragon 16h16 hours ago
@RMTunion @SouthernRailUK No thanks. These new strikes are the final straw. Sack the conductors who do nothing on trains anyway.

Spookmaster General ‏@meltonwhiz 16h16 hours ago
.@BBCNewsbeat so @RMTunion want to tell people what they can & can't post on a public platform? HA cry more. people can tweet what they want

Angelika Friebe ‏@onlymapwoman 17h17 hours ago
@RMTunion thanks for yet another messed up train journey: delay, cancellation, inconvenience. And NO, I do NOT support your strike! ;-(

IPN ‏@IanPNewberry 17h17 hours ago
@palace_mason @SouthernRailOK @SouthernRailUK @RMTunion exactly- both have agendas none of which consider passengers

Kostas‏@Kostas_M_R
@jessbrammar go and do your work. the offer is too generous they should've laid you all of long time ago #SouthernBackOnTrack #rmtunion

Captain Bleary ‏@Keepofftherocks 18h18 hours ago
@RMTunion strikes aren't working and your losing public support. why don't you turn up on strike days and let passengers travel for free?

Max Pearson-Smith ‏@maxwps 18h18 hours ago
@RMTunion Losing guards is a part of technological progress. Forcing companies to hire them still is illogical, why can't you accept that?

Bradley ‏@BradleyHeasman 18h18 hours ago
@RMTunion Just a bunch of c**ts.

Mikey V ‏@palace_mason 18h18 hours ago
@SouthernRailUK thanks for filling up my twitter with deluded trots supporting @RMTunion. Both to blame for strikes.

Adrift78 ‏@Adrift781 19h19 hours ago
@RMTunion @SouthernRailUK are doing the right thing to conductors if they refuse to sign new contracts

Adrift78 ‏@Adrift781 19h19 hours ago
@dreschro @RMTunion @RMTLondon technology advances, times move on we don't need guards. we need people who will work.

David ‏@davegee13 19h19 hours ago
@phobulon @RMTunion it's an excuse for a pathological hatred of change. Full stop.

Phil ‏@phobulon 19h19 hours ago
@RMTunion where are your safety concerns coming from given that plenty of trains are DOO & are fine?

Emma Russell ‏@emmalourussell 19h19 hours ago
@RMTunion @SouthernRailUK clearly these strikes are having no benefit apart from annoying commuters who pay a fortune, so I'm confused why..

Hayley Green ‏@ChaineysCrafts 21h21 hours ago
The RMT union & southern rail really need to grow up. No more twitter wars and no more strikes. Get on with your job and let us get to work

Christopher MiIler ‏@GristoMill 21h21 hours ago
Looking forward to fewer cancelled trains from conductors not turning up. @RMTunion @SouthernRailUK

R ‏@bobbie77 21h21 hours ago
@nikdigital @RMTunion @SouthernRailUK no your not. You have public rail there. We have lazy RMT workers here.

Jamie ‏@jamieferguson68 Oct 4
@RMTunion A vote to strike is a vote to allow Conductors to continue to be bone idle. You are as bad as Southern actually. @SouthernRailUK

Kimberly Butler ‏@kimbobutler 23h23 hours agoCity of London, London
#rmtunion sorry but for of us who endured 6 months of hell I have no sympathy for unions as they are an outdated institution!

Travel Focus ‏@travelfocus16 Oct 4
@RMTunion But its not a dispute about safety, is it?!

Paul Weiser ‏@AndyRibblehead 24h24 hours ago
@AngelaRayner @RMTunion Hypocrisy, misinformation, scaremongering, bully tactics from RMT. Shame on you for being hoodwinked.

Paul Weiser ‏@AndyRibblehead 24h24 hours ago
@AngelaRayner @RMTunion Blatant untruth Angela All Thameslink Underground Overground have no guards, just as safe

Pot Kettle Black ‏@potkettle99 Oct 4
@AngelaRayner @RMTunion RMT are doing no such thing. They are parasitic scum and need kicking into touch.

Tom G ‏@EarlsvenT Oct 4
@98rosjon I hope that wasn't your graffiti, the RMT union needs to be slapped down for their ridiculous action over such small point.

Kevin Views ‏@Skittles_kev 8m8 minutes ago
Both @RMTunion need to stop crying every second & @SouthernRailUK are not perfect neither. Stop acting like children Listen & Talk #Immature

@emma wasp ‏@emma_wasp1 23m23 minutes ago
@SouthernRailUK strike nothing to do with push button doors. It is motivated by greed & crazy political ambitions of Looney Left @RMTunion

Zeberdy ‏@kevinrussell878 1h1 hour ago
@rs2007 @AndyBraben @SouthernRailUK @RMTunion Time to get back to work and STOP striking. Selfish people

 

[KTHV]

Quite a few of those responses have been posted by those ideologically and politically opposed to the ideas of Unions and are only using it as an excuse to have a go at the "Looney Left" or "Trots" - so really those should be discounted (indeed one of them was contributed from a user who lives in Spain - and I'm not sure there's a direct train from Barnham to Valencia)

 

[AlterEgo]

Quite a few of those responses have been posted by those ideologically and politically opposed to the ideas of Unions and are only using it as an excuse to have a go at the "Looney Left" or "Trots" - so really those should be discounted (indeed one of them was contributed from a user who lives in Spain - and I'm not sure there's a direct train from Barnham to Valencia)

And more than quite a few of the "pro RMT" tweets were posted by people ideologically and politically aligned to Unions. So?

 

[greaterwest]

And more than quite a few of the "pro RMT" tweets were posted by people ideologically and politically aligned to Unions. So?

I remember seeing one where the person admitted they don't like unions, but they agree with why the RMT are striking.

 

[AlterEgo]

Meanwhile, the RMT have a stunning return to form, with a terrifically hysterical press release.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-forces-southern-to-withdraw-media-campaign/

(I have left the elementary grammar errors in the except below)

RMT forces Southern to withdraw campaign of incitement to violence against staff.

Rail union RMT has forced train company Southern to scrap it's “Strike Back” campaign ‎of incitement to violence against staff after a huge public backlash and after evidence begins to emerge of workers being abused and assaulted as a result of the company actions.

The screen grab attached tells managers to remove and destroy the offensive and incendiary posters

"Incitement to violence"!


However, interestingly, they've published an open letter to Horton which gives some more detail about the "staff assault".

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/charles-horton-letter051016/

Only this morning a report has been made to the BTP with regards to a conductor from Eastbourne - “a member of the travelling public refused to buy a ticket and then confronted me by getting in my face saying “strike back strike back” this was on the 07:10 Haywards Heath – Eastbourne – BTP Ref 99”

So, if true, unacceptable by the passenger, and a staff assault as far as the figures are concerned (which do not require a person actually be assaulted), but no violence or threat reported.

Of course, at this stage this is just an allegation and the BTP will have to investigate. Seems rather strange that a customer would lift words from a Southern poster and then repeat them to a member of staff - who'd have thought their campaign would be so effective?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember seeing one where the person admitted they don't like unions, but they agree with why the RMT are striking.

Wow, one person. Amazing. Fancy that.

 

[Deepgreen]

Meanwhile, the RMT have a stunning return to form, with a terrifically hysterical press release.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-forces-southern-to-withdraw-media-campaign/

(I have left the elementary grammar errors in the except below)



"Incitement to violence"!


However, interestingly, they've published an open letter to Horton which gives some more detail about the "staff assault".

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/charles-horton-letter051016/

Only this morning a report has been made to the BTP with regards to a conductor from Eastbourne - “a member of the travelling public refused to buy a ticket and then confronted me by getting in my face saying “strike back strike back” this was on the 07:10 Haywards Heath – Eastbourne – BTP Ref 99”

So, if true, unacceptable by the passenger, and a staff assault as far as the figures are concerned (which do not require a person actually be assaulted), but no violence or threat reported.

Of course, at this stage this is just an allegation and the BTP will have to investigate. Seems rather strange that a customer would lift words from a Southern poster and then repeat them to a member of staff - who'd have thought their campaign would be so effective?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Wow, one person. Amazing. Fancy that.

"Excerpt".

 

[AlterEgo]

"excerpt".