GWR AM Peak new class 800 IET diagram

[warwickshire]

Starting from today Monday 28th March 2022 sees a new GWR IET diagram replace a class 165 turbo.

However it is a STP one Monday 28th March to Friday 1st April 2022.

Suspect other weeks to May timetable change may very slightly. Details are:.

1. 5D13 0454 North pole IET Depot to London Paddington.
2. 3D13 0520 London Paddington to Oxford up c.s
3. 5L13 0652 Oxford up c.s to Oxford
4. 2L13 0656 Oxford to Didcot Parkway
5. 2M10 0734 Didcot Parkway to Banbury
6. 2U21 0835 Banbury to Reading.
7. 3U21 1002 Reading to London Paddington.
8. 5U21 1045 London Paddington to North pole IET Depot.
However a peak 165 turbo service am diagramm now replaced by a five car 800 IET.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Starting from today Monday 28th March 2022 sees a new GWR IET diagram replace a class 165 turbo.

However it is a STP one Monday 28th March to Friday 1st April 2022.

Suspect other weeks to May timetable change may very slightly. Details are:.

1. 5D13 0454 North pole IET Depot to London Paddington.
2. 3D13 0520 London Paddington to Oxford up c.s
3. 5L13 0652 Oxford up c.s to Oxford
4. 2L13 0656 Oxford to Didcot Parkway
5. 2M10 0734 Didcot Parkway to Banbury
6. 2U21 0835 Banbury to Reading.
7. 3U21 1002 Reading to London Paddington.
8. 5U21 1045 London Paddington to North pole IET Depot.
However a peak 165 turbo service am diagramm now replaced by a five car 800 IET.

This is only a temporary diagram until the May 22 timetable change to reduce the turbo diagrams on the Didcot/Oxford/Banbury shuttles down from 5 diagrams to 4. You will see elsewhere an extra turbo has been moved into the west fleet. It is only temporary as it add costs in because the trains now need a guard instead of running DOO.

The 06.56 Oxford to Didcot Parkway is removed at that point and the rest of the workings are absorbed into the other remaining 4 turbo diagrams. You can now see the timing changes connected with this in RTT, the 07.34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury from that point is formed off the 06.06 Banbury to Didcot Parkway.

 

[railwaytrack]

This is only a temporary diagram until the May 22 timetable change to reduce the turbo diagrams on the Didcot/Oxford/Banbury shuttles down from 5 diagrams to 4. You will see elsewhere an extra turbo has been moved into the west fleet. It is only temporary as it add costs in because the trains now need a guard instead of running DOO.

The 06.56 Oxford to Didcot Parkway is removed at that point and the rest of the workings are absorbed into the other remaining 4 turbo diagrams. You can now see the timing changes connected with this in RTT, the 07.34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury from that point is formed off the 06.06 Banbury to Didcot Parkway.

Why does it need a Guard when the 165s and 166s can run DOO on the same route? Plus i thought some 800s and 802s already run DOO on certain services? Is there any reason these services can not run DOO too?

 

[Watershed]

Why does it need a Guard when the 165s and 166s can run DOO on the same route? Plus i thought some 800s and 802s already run DOO on certain services? Is there any reason these services can not run DOO too?

80x can only run DOO if dispatched by station staff. The bodyside CCTV cameras are not signed off for use for dispatch on GWR.

Hence why London to Oxford and Banbury services can run DOO, as they only call at stations with dispatch staff. But with these services calling at minor unstaffed shacks, they require a guard.

It's ridiculous if you ask me, same as the rule that London to Oxford services can run DOO but not London to Worcester/Hereford services, but it is what it is.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Why does it need a Guard when the 165s and 166s can run DOO on the same route? Plus i thought some 800s and 802s already run DOO on certain services? Is there any reason these services can not run DOO too?

165s and 166s use Platform mounted mirrors and monitors. 80x have cameras on the side of the trains like most other modern rolling stock. For some reason (someone else on here may know why) this has never been agreed for use. 80x do run in DOO mode but only calling at staffed stations where Close Door / Right Away equipment can be used. That’s why services such as the Sunday Oxford’s which call at Radley (there being no Didcot shuttle on Sundays) are run with a guard.

 

[lawried123]

80x can only run DOO if dispatched by station staff. The bodyside CCTV cameras are not signed off for use for dispatch on GWR.

Hence why London to Oxford and Banbury services can run DOO, as they only call at stations with dispatch staff. But with these services calling at minor unstaffed shacks, they require a guard.

It's ridiculous if you ask me, same as the rule that London to Oxford services can run DOO but not London to Worcester/Hereford services, but it is what it is.

Thanks, Watershed, that would explain why the 2318 the other night didn't call at Twyford. Fortunately I noticed that on the indicator before I boarded the train. The only unfortunate thing is that it connects with the Henley train so people for Henley would have had to catch the next slower train and wait longer for Henley.
Lawrie

 

[warwickshire]

Why does it need a Guard when the 165s and 166s can run DOO on the same route? Plus i thought some 800s and 802s already run DOO on certain services? Is there any reason these services can not run DOO too?

Also door deselect is needed for Heyford and Tackley due to them being 3 car stations only. Where as IET is five car. Hence need for a guard. Also Kings Sutton can take 5 cars but might be a very tight fir for a IET. Plus dont forget stations in between Oxford and Didcot Parkway could have other reasons for guard ie dispatch issues as well.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks, Watershed, that would explain why the 2318 the other night didn't call at Twyford. Fortunately I noticed that on the indicator before I boarded the train. The only unfortunate thing is that it connects with the Henley train so people for Henley would have had to catch the next slower train and wait longer for Henley.
Lawrie

They must have been short of staff that evening at Twyford then, it’s usually a ‘dispatch’ station.

 

[Horizon22]

Thanks, Watershed, that would explain why the 2318 the other night didn't call at Twyford. Fortunately I noticed that on the indicator before I boarded the train. The only unfortunate thing is that it connects with the Henley train so people for Henley would have had to catch the next slower train and wait longer for Henley.
Lawrie

It would only fail to call if there was some sort of dispatch shortage. In that case, a guard will try to be sourced but might not have been possible at short notice.

It is a weird quirk of the 80x services without a guard that these arrangements are in place, but that was the deal that was agreed several years back - this was at the height of the DOO disputes with Southern and I doubt GWR wanted to have that battle given how toxic it was getting at the time with GTR.

165s and 166s use Platform mounted mirrors and monitors. 80x have cameras on the side of the trains like most other modern rolling stock. For some reason (someone else on here may know why) this has never been agreed for use. 80x do run in DOO mode but only calling at staffed stations where Close Door / Right Away equipment can be used. That’s why services such as the Sunday Oxford’s which call at Radley (there being no Didcot shuttle on Sundays) are run with a guard.

There was an issue with a STP arrangement last year when an 80x service was starting at Oxford (having stabled overnight) and calling at Radley, but the TM joined at Reading. A lot of fail to calls until the diagrams were rectified!

As for the question at hand, there is likely to be a Reading TM passing up to Oxford so the diagram runs. As stated, it's a short-term arrangement until May.

 

[irish_rail]

The camera picture quality isn't good enough and they are frequently dirty, one of the main reasons I think why unions wouldn't be happy for drivers to risk driving them on DOO. I wouldn't be happy thats for sure.

 

[Nicholas43]

The 06.56 Oxford to Didcot Parkway is removed at that point [23 May] and the rest of the workings are absorbed into the other remaining 4 turbo diagrams. You can now see the timing changes connected with this in RTT, the 07.34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury from that point is formed off the 06.06 Banbury to Didcot Parkway.

Real time trains seems (to me) to show that today (29 March) 802017 did the 0656 Oxford to Didcot and then 0734 Didcot to Banbury. Welcome unaccustomed luxury for commuters from Radley!

 

[ainsworth74]

The camera picture quality isn't good enough

It beggars belief that we can have trains that have been built in the last ten years that don't have crystal clear HD video feeds in the cab for any bodyside cameras that are fitted. If my dashcam from 2017 can out put 1080p video then I refuse to believe it was beyond the whit of man to fit cameras to trains costing millions per vehicle that are capable of the same along with screens up to the task of displaying the video feed!

 

[Watershed]

It beggars belief that we can have trains that have been built in the last ten years that don't have crystal clear HD video feeds in the cab for any bodyside cameras that are fitted. If my dashcam from 2017 can out put 1080p video then I refuse to believe it was beyond the whit of man to fit cameras to trains costing millions per vehicle that are capable of the same along with screens up to the task of displaying the video feed!

And more to the point, it beggars belief that the trains would be accepted with the cameras being unacceptably poor. It seems to me like an issue that has just been left to allow 'sleeping dogs to lie' (particularly due to the IR implications of a further rollout of DOO), rather than insoluble roadblock. Certainly the cameras on other operators' 80x's are used, notably Lumo, who run DOO.

 

[fgwrich]

It beggars belief that we can have trains that have been built in the last ten years that don't have crystal clear HD video feeds in the cab for any bodyside cameras that are fitted. If my dashcam from 2017 can out put 1080p video then I refuse to believe it was beyond the whit of man to fit cameras to trains costing millions per vehicle that are capable of the same along with screens up to the task of displaying the video feed!

I could say more about those camera's, but I probably can't. I will say each coach has it's own computer though and getting the CCTV from a 9 car certainly took some considerable time!

But this is diverting the thread from the use of IETs on the Banbury / Oxford / Didcot services. I do find it somewhat crazy though that the set has to run ECS from North Pole > Paddington > Oxford CS.

 

[northernbelle]

The camera picture quality isn't good enough and they are frequently dirty, one of the main reasons I think why unions wouldn't be happy for drivers to risk driving them on DOO. I wouldn't be happy thats for sure.

IETs are used in DOO mode every day of the week but only at stations where dispatch staff are provided. The picture quality itself is good enough for DOO and certainly a vast improvement on the traditional mirrors also used for DOO every day of the week. The issue is keeping them clean - that can easily be addressed by stationing cleaners at strategic locations to take care of it - iirc this happened at St Pancras when 395s were introduced. The reason they are not used for self-dispatch is political and dates back to the period when the Southern dispute was in full swing.

It beggars belief that we can have trains that have been built in the last ten years that don't have crystal clear HD video feeds in the cab for any bodyside cameras that are fitted. If my dashcam from 2017 can out put 1080p video then I refuse to believe it was beyond the whit of man to fit cameras to trains costing millions per vehicle that are capable of the same along with screens up to the task of displaying the video feed!

The picture quality itself is fine (and offers a better view than a single pair of eyes or a mirror) but does require camera lenses to be clean.

I could say more about those camera's, but I probably can't. I will say each coach has it's own computer though and getting the CCTV from a 9 car certainly took some considerable time!

But this is diverting the thread from the use of IETs on the Banbury / Oxford / Didcot services. I do find it somewhat crazy though that the set has to run ECS from North Pole > Paddington > Oxford CS.

Operationally, it's the exterior bodyside cameras that are required for DOO operation in a 'live' situation - the retrospective download of CCTV is a different challenge.

 

[Techniquest]

So what is it that gets the cameras so dirty, so easily? Is it just general dust etc from high speed running? Genuinely curious.

I have to say that this whole running IETs to Banbury thing has me wanting to visit that part of the world, just to mark it off as done on an IET. With longer evenings now finally a thing again (it felt like a long winter!) I might have to take advantage of the evening turn soon!

 

[Watershed]

So what is it that gets the cameras so dirty, so easily? Is it just general dust etc from high speed running? Genuinely curious.

I have to say that this whole running IETs to Banbury thing has me wanting to visit that part of the world, just to mark it off as done on an IET. With longer evenings now finally a thing again (it felt like a long winter!) I might have to take advantage of the evening turn soon!

There been an evening "peak" 80x service from Paddington and back since the Dec 19 timetable change (albeit withdrawn for a period during timetable reductions). Runs DOO, nonstop Paddington to Oxford in the Down direction, with a rather blistering path!

 

[Techniquest]

There been an evening "peak" 80x service from Paddington and back since the Dec 19 timetable change (albeit withdrawn for a period during timetable reductions). Runs DOO, nonstop Paddington to Oxford in the Down direction, with a rather blistering path!

That is good! 45 minutes to Oxford is fantastic! I did once see such a working, maybe February 2020, fly through Reading, and I remember it being a winner 802 at the time. I must remember to feature it some time into a tour, I dread to think what the ching will be on it mind!

 

[railwaytrack]

Also door deselect is needed for Heyford and Tackley due to them being 3 car stations only. Where as IET is five car. Hence need for a guard. Also Kings Sutton can take 5 cars but might be a very tight fir for a IET. Plus dont forget stations in between Oxford and Didcot Parkway could have other reasons for guard ie dispatch issues as well.

I thought the 800s and 802s had ASDO fitted? I thought the door deselect method is only used on Turbostars (168/170/171/172) and a few other trains but not on 800s and 802s as they have ASDO fitted? Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the driver just releases the doors normally and the train automatically uses ASDO to only open the carriages which are on the platform? In fact even on 800s and 802s with a Guard i think it is the Driver who always releases the doors at all stations with the Guard only closing the doors but not releasing them?

 

[JonathanH]

That is good! 45 minutes to Oxford is fantastic! I did once see such a working, maybe February 2020, fly through Reading, and I remember it being a winner 802 at the time. I must remember to feature it some time into a tour, I dread to think what the ching will be on it mind!

Advance fares from £5.40 on that service from Paddington to Oxford if you book early enough - eg that is what is shown for 18 May at the moment.

 

[warwickshire]

I thought the 800s and 802s had ASDO fitted? I thought the door deselect method is only used on Turbostars (168/170/171/172) and a few other trains but not on 800s and 802s as they have ASDO fitted? Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the driver just releases the doors normally and the train automatically uses ASDO to only open the carriages which are on the platform? In fact even on 800s and 802s with a Guard i think it is the Driver who always releases the doors at all stations with the Guard only closing the doors but not releasing them?

I thought they where door deselect myself but could be wrong. However I know stations Bedwyn to Newbury also have same issues. Maybe guard can override the system iff a issue was to occur?

 

[Techniquest]

Advance fares from £5.40 on that service from Paddington to Oxford if you book early enough - eg that is what is shown for 18 May at the moment.

Wow that is pretty cheap! Thanks for the heads-up, will look at that soon!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I thought they where door deselect myself but could be wrong. However I know stations Bedwyn to Newbury also have same issues. Maybe guard can override the system iff a issue was to occur?

80x have ASDO

 

[warwickshire]

80x have ASDO

Many thanks. So the guard just closes.
And is there for the safe dispatch and any issues with the ASDO at the short platform stations.

 

[Horizon22]

I could say more about those camera's, but I probably can't. I will say each coach has it's own computer though and getting the CCTV from a 9 car certainly took some considerable time!

But this is diverting the thread from the use of IETs on the Banbury / Oxford / Didcot services. I do find it somewhat crazy though that the set has to run ECS from North Pole > Paddington > Oxford CS.

North Pole is the closest IET depot to Oxford. The first Oxford train is 0504 Paddington - Oxford, which forms the 0707 Oxford - Paddington back. The only other option would be to use one of the outstabled trains at Oxford, but you'd still need another set up at Oxford for the morning service, so it makes not much difference.

 

[Triumph]

The unit that works this diagram is an 802 and didn't have any work until 5D24 1151 off North Pole so the diagram fits in nicely as it arrives back at NP at 1056.

 

[FGW_DID]

The unit that works this diagram is an 802 and didn't have any work until 5D24 1151 off North Pole so the diagram fits in nicely as it arrives back at NP at 1056.

It fits nicely as it is all one 802 diagram, the visit to North Pole mid morning just means that the unit that works the morning portion may not necessarily work the afternoon portion.

 

[Starmill]

That is good! 45 minutes to Oxford is fantastic! I did once see such a working, maybe February 2020, fly through Reading, and I remember it being a winner 802 at the time. I must remember to feature it some time into a tour, I dread to think what the ching will be on it mind!

The Cheltenham Spa service which leaves London 3 minutes later and stays right behind it all the way to Didcot East Junction is also fairly impressive.

 

[JonathanH]

The Cheltenham Spa service which leaves London 3 minutes later and stays right behind it all the way to Didcot East Junction is also fairly impressive.

It kind of shows what might be possible if IETs didn't have to serve Reading.

 

[Techniquest]

It kind of shows what might be possible if IETs didn't have to serve Reading.

I have to say I haven't looked yet at this Cheltenham service, but it sounds like a recast timetable really should have more ultra fast services in it. First stop Swindon/Oxford/Newbury/similar kind of thing, unleash the power of the IET. Maybe not too many of them, there are still significant numbers of passengers to move after all, and while it may not be quite as necessary as in times gone by to have the SuperFast services like we did running non-stop to Chippenham and so on, perhaps it would not hurt to revisit the premise.